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Technical Question : Campagnolo Road Bike

Old 12-06-22, 05:57 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by KC007 View Post
ALCJPHIL:

You are preaching to the choir. First, on my 1989 hand-made Ritchey Mountain Bike there is a non-native Sachs Aris Freewheel Sprocket(s) that is not performing well with the Mavic Hubs. I can't use my Rapid Fire button anymore because of a piece-meal set up (on my Ritchey). But let me cut to the chase, because I have an Ochsner Road Bike (Columbus Tubing) with Campagnolo drop-outs and Campagnolo Record Hubs and derailleur says Nuovo Record that I need help with. I want a Campagnolo Freewheel that is compatible with my setup because my pulley wheels are cracking because of non-native Suntour Freewheel that is on the bike (currently). I found a beautiful NOS Vintage Campagnolo 6 speeds alloy freewheel 13/21 and trying to see if it will work with Campagnolo Record Hubs and Nuovo Record Rear derailleur (but the price is ridiculously high and I want as many options as I can find because I don't want to pay $595 for that Campagnolo 6 speeds alloy freewheel 13/21 ! Please help!
I'm glad you've been researching some of the components. $600 each for the Campagnolo 6 spd does not surprise me at all, not that I would ever buy one. I would put that part of your head.

I am surprised that the Suntour freewheel seems to be inherently a conflict with your Nuovo Record pulley wheels. I would think the cracking could be caused by the freewheel teeth crashing into the jockey pulleys, but that strongly suggests to me that the chain length is wrong (too long or too short). There are pretty firm guidelines out in the literature on how to adjust the chain length correctly and to eliminate such problems. Its also possible your Nuovo Record derailleur is assembled wrong. That is anywhere from 2 to 40 years old, and any previous owner could have tried to "improve" it over the years. There are several points for which an experienced rider or shop mechanic can help you get to a freewheel / derailleur / chain-length combination. I'm pretty certain that simply changing to a Campagnolo freewheel will not improve this situation.

I hope you can show pics by now.
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Old 12-07-22, 08:41 AM
  #27  
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Campagnolo freewheels are nice, but not, IMO, $600 worth of "nice." Add to that the cost of the proprietary helical prong remover tool. My experience is that SunTour freewheels work fine with Campagnolo hubs and derailleurs, but Shimano Uniglide freewheels are even better. I haven't tried them with Shimano Hyperglide freewheels, but I suspect they would work just as well as Uniglide, if not better and easier to source.
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Old 12-08-22, 11:55 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
Campagnolo freewheels are nice, but not, IMO, $600 worth of "nice." Add to that the cost of the proprietary helical prong remover tool. My experience is that SunTour freewheels work fine with Campagnolo hubs and derailleurs, but Shimano Uniglide freewheels are even better. I haven't tried them with Shimano Hyperglide freewheels, but I suspect they would work just as well as Uniglide, if not better and easier to source.
I think I've tried Uniglide with conventional chains. I usually find any tooth design which is not straight like a Regina or Maillard works very well, if the chain is not too wide
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Old 12-08-22, 03:46 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Road Fan View Post
I think I've tried Uniglide with conventional chains. I usually find any tooth design which is not straight like a Regina or Maillard works very well, if the chain is not too wide
I've used them with SedisSport, SunTour "Ultra," and modern SRAM 8-speed chains. SedisSport and SRAM seem to work best.
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Old 12-09-22, 02:16 PM
  #30  
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I guess I'm relatively insensitive to chains. I tend to favor Campy chains on Campy-equipped bikes, and Sedis everywhere else.
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Old 12-10-22, 02:55 PM
  #31  
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Forum Members:

I have several questions regarding the new Regina Freewheel I am ordering, questions listed below:
  • some of the freewheels have ribs / notches all the way around the inner freewheel mechanism and some freewheels have smooth inners with only 2 notches for removal - which one should I go with ?? (note: my existing SunTour freewheel has a smooth inner and two notches for the ParkTool freewheel remover tool
  • I don't understand the numbering ... 12-19, 12-21, 13-21, 13-23 (can anybody help explain the numbering ?
  • Does it matter if I go with English threading vs. say French threading etc ?
Please help! Thanks!

Last edited by KC007; 12-11-22 at 08:23 AM.
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Old 12-10-22, 03:12 PM
  #32  
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I thought all Regina freewheels had the same tool interface, not sure what you mean.

The numbers are obviously the range of the cogs from small to large.

Threading obviously has to match your hub.
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Old 12-11-22, 09:03 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by KC007 View Post
some of the freewheels have ribs / notches all the way around the inner freewheel mechanism and some freewheels have smooth inners with only 2 notches for removal - which one should I go with ?? (note: my existing SunTour freewheel has a smooth inner and two notches for the ParkTool freewheel remover tool
The splined remover interface is far more secure than a notched remover interface, and Regina's two-notch design is the least secure at holding the remover tool. SunTour's two notch design is somewhat better, and incompatible with Regina's remover tool. Late production SunTour used a four-notch remover interface, which was somewhat more secure than the earlier two-notch design. Campagnolo's helical two-notch design is arguably the best of these, as torque when removing the freewheel will tend to drive the tool deeper into the notches, preventing damage to those notches.

Be aware that if you mount a splined Regina freewheel on a Campagnolo Record, Zeus, or Phil Wood hub, you will need a special thin-wall remover from Phil or Zeus to fit over the axle locknut. The Park FT-4 or Bicycle Research CT-2 are too thick, and you need to remove the locknuts from the axle to fit those tools in place.
Most modern freewheels have adopted Shimano's TL-FW30 spline pattern, which is incompatible with the Atom/Zeus/Regina spline pattern, as well as Shimano's own earlier "Boss" spline pattern.



I don't understand the numbering ... 12-19, 12-21, 13-21, 13-23 (can anybody help explain the numbering ?

The numbers refer to the tooth count spread on the cluster. E.g., the smallest sprocket on a 13-23 cluster has 13 teeth, the largest has 23 teeth.


Does it matter if I go with English threading vs. say French threading etc ?Please help! Thanks!
Yes. Freewheel thread spec must match that of the hub.

Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
I thought all Regina freewheels had the same tool interface, not sure what you mean.
Early production Regina (also Caimi/Everest and Shimano Dura-Ace) used a delicate two-notch remover interface; later production adopted the splined interface used by Atom and Zeus.

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Old 12-11-22, 11:21 AM
  #34  
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Question 1: I'm just wondering if the splined style Regina Freewheel is what I should go with ? Question 2: I don't know if I have English Threading, French Threading, etc. I have uploaded a photo of my Campagnolo Hub (as you can see it has no notch). Please help! Thanks!
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Old 12-11-22, 05:11 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by KC007 View Post


Question 1: I'm just wondering if the splined style Regina Freewheel is what I should go with ? Question 2: I don't know if I have English Threading, French Threading, etc. I have uploaded a photo of my Campagnolo Hub (as you can see it has no notch). Please help! Thanks!
The shell appears to be unmarked, which would mean that it is either Italian or French thread. A thread gauge will distinguish between them: French thread is 1mm pitch; Italian and English are 24 threads per inch (tpi). If your hub were English thread, it would be marked with a groove in the space between the freewheel threads and the hub flange. An English thread freewheel can be used on an Italian thread hub; the difference is in the thread angle, not the diameter or thread pitch. Doing so will reform the hub's thread angle to 60. If you choose to do this, avoid switching back and forth between Italian thread and English thread freewheels, as repeated reforming of the threads will eventually cause them to fail.

The splined freewheel body is superior to the two-notch body, but you should try to find a Zeus or Phil remover tool so you don't have to remove the locknut in order to seat the remover tool. If you do decide to use a two-notch body, try to find a Bicycle Research CT-1 or Shimano TL-FW10 remover tool, as these have a stabilizing ring that minimizes the chance of damaging the remover notches on the freewheel body.

Unless you're dead-set on using a Regina freewheel, I'd suggest using a modern Shimano Hyperglide freewheel. These are readily available, use a sturdy splined remover that is readily available and affordable and does not
require removing the locknut on the hub axle, and will give better shifting performance as well.

ww
require removing the locknut on the hub axle, and will give better shifting performance as well.



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Old 12-14-22, 10:21 AM
  #36  
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Message to JohnDThomson:

You definitely have me questioning a Regina Freewheel purchase at this point 🤔 Because I am on a budget and Regina Freewheels are 3 to 4 X more expensive than Shimano Hyperglide freewheel(s).

Question 1: I found a Shimano MF-TZ500-6/7 Speed on eBay, do you think that will be compatible with my Campy Hub?

Question 2: Do you think a bicycle shop can determine if it is French or English Threading or is there any other marking (stamp) on hub that would help me with my research?

Question 3: How do you know that the shifting performance will be better - if I go with Shimano Hyperglide in lieu of Regina?
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Old 12-14-22, 10:32 AM
  #37  
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No idea what threading you have but this would be the way to go for a modern freewheel. The only reason to go Shimano is if I was desperate:
https://www.interlocracing.com/shop?search=freewheel
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Old 12-14-22, 01:19 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by KC007 View Post
You definitely have me questioning a Regina Freewheel purchase at this point 🤔 Because I am on a budget and Regina Freewheels are 3 to 4 X more expensive than Shimano Hyperglide freewheel(s).
I'm not a big fan of Regina freewheels, for a number of reasons.

Question 1: I found a Shimano MF-TZ500-6/7 Speed on eBay, do you think that will be compatible with my Campy Hub?
Yes, provided you have determined that your hub is not metric (aka "French") thread.

Question 2: Do you think a bicycle shop can determine if it is French or English Threading or is there any other marking (stamp) on hub that would help me with my research?
Your hub is old enough that it is not explicitly marked with thread spec. The lack of a groove in the space between the freewheel threads and hub flange means it could either be metric or Italian thread. A bike shop should have a thread gauge to determine which. Otherwise, thread gauges aren't very costly, so you could buy one yourself.

Question 3: How do you know that the shifting performance will be better - if I go with Shimano Hyperglide in lieu of Regina?
Modern Hyperglide sprocket teeth are profiled to allow quick, reliable shifts with indexed shifters; friction shifters also benefit from this profiling. Campagnolo and Regina freewheels do not have this feature.

N.B. @veganbikes suggests Interloc Racing Design (IRC) freewheels. They also have profiled sprocket teeth for improved shifting performance. I have no personal experience with IRC freewheels, my understanding is that the mechanism is based on Shimano's classic Uniglide freewheels, which, IMO, are among the best ever brought to market, but they've been out of production for several decades. Later Shimano Hyperglide freewheels have cheaper/less robust mechanisms, but the price is low enough that they can simply be replaced if/when they give trouble.
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Old 12-14-22, 04:57 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
I'm not a big fan of Regina freewheels, for a number of reasons.


Yes, provided you have determined that your hub is not metric (aka "French") thread.


Your hub is old enough that it is not explicitly marked with thread spec. The lack of a groove in the space between the freewheel threads and hub flange means it could either be metric or Italian thread. A bike shop should have a thread gauge to determine which. Otherwise, thread gauges aren't very costly, so you could buy one yourself.


Modern Hyperglide sprocket teeth are profiled to allow quick, reliable shifts with indexed shifters; friction shifters also benefit from this profiling. Campagnolo and Regina freewheels do not have this feature.

N.B. @veganbikes suggests Interloc Racing Design (IRC) freewheels. They also have profiled sprocket teeth for improved shifting performance. I have no personal experience with IRC freewheels, my understanding is that the mechanism is based on Shimano's classic Uniglide freewheels, which, IMO, are among the best ever brought to market, but they've been out of production for several decades. Later Shimano Hyperglide freewheels have cheaper/less robust mechanisms, but the price is low enough that they can simply be replaced if/when they give trouble.
IRD makes fantastic freewheels and they are rebuildable which is very old school but you can buy cogs and bodies as well as the pawls and springs. Very much like the old cog boards back in the 70s and 80s I missed.
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Old 12-15-22, 07:01 PM
  #40  
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Thanks Forum Members (i.e., JohnDThompson & veganbikes !Although I was Dead Set(~);-} a Live Album released by the Grateful Dead in '81) on 'Regina' Freewheels for my project, I am now leaning towards the IRC freewheel because of a recommendation by veganbikes. In regards to IRC, I like the idea of rebuildable.

Now I need to know what spec I should roll with for the 6 speed I am trying to build (i.e., 13-26T, 13- 24T, 13-28T, 13-38T ❓ Please help! Thanks! I primarily ride my road bike East of the Mississippi River (I am more of a mountain biker than a road biker and never do steep hills - either on single tracks or roads). Thanks again !
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Old 12-15-22, 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by KC007 View Post
Thanks Forum Members (i.e., JohnDThompson & veganbikes !Although I was Dead Set(~);-} a Live Album released by the Grateful Dead in '81) on 'Regina' Freewheels for my project, I am now leaning towards the IRC freewheel because of a recommendation by veganbikes. In regards to IRC, I like the idea of rebuildable.

Now I need to know what spec I should roll with for the 6 speed I am trying to build (i.e., 13-26T, 13- 24T, 13-28T, 13-38T ❓ Please help! Thanks! I primarily ride my road bike East of the Mississippi River (I am more of a mountain biker than a road biker and never do steep hills - either on single tracks or roads). Thanks again !
Thanks happy to help just two quick things if you put the @ symbol in front of someones name they will be mentioned and get an alert some members may miss a posting without being quoted or mentioned so it would end up looking like KC007 and secondly it is IRD (Interloc Racing Designs) just to make it easier to find. If your local shop has a Merry Sales account they are the distributors of them and might be the owners/caretakers these days but don't quote me on that. Again the link is https://www.interlocracing.com/shop?search=freewheel

In terms of which one to get I personally would get the largest one I could fit with my derailleur me personally I cannot really do the old school gearing with the little corncobs and huge front gears so I think I have a 13-28 on my Phil Wood bike because it was the largest I think without going to the 38 (which I would happily do if I could swap the cage on my 7400 derailleur which I haven't really looked into with any vigor because I have bikes I enjoy riding to ride and that one I can just stare at lovingly : )
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