Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > General Cycling Discussion
Reload this Page >

How do hookless tires stay on?

Notices
General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

How do hookless tires stay on?

Old 08-17-22, 11:21 AM
  #1  
Herzlos
Full Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Scotland
Posts: 349

Bikes: Gravel, MTB

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 539 Post(s)
Liked 431 Times in 249 Posts
How do hookless tires stay on?

I was looking at a new pair of wheels and noticed they were hookless, which means the rim profile is straight. After some googling I still can't quite understand how the tire actually stays on, so I thought I'd ask here.

So how do they work? Are they relying on the pressure at one side from allowing the other side to be pulled off? Does that mean there's a risk that with a sudden depressurisation there's a risk the tire will dismount slightly easier than clinchers/hooks?
Herzlos is offline  
Old 08-17-22, 11:27 AM
  #2  
VegasJen
Full Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2021
Posts: 311
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 302 Post(s)
Liked 175 Times in 97 Posts
I'm curious about this as well. I have only heard of these tires in passing. Absolutely zero personal experience. I seem to recall hearing something about gluing the tires on? I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will chime in.
VegasJen is offline  
Old 08-17-22, 11:33 AM
  #3  
Koyote
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 5,642
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5304 Post(s)
Liked 7,909 Times in 3,423 Posts
Originally Posted by Herzlos View Post
I was looking at a new pair of wheels and noticed they were hookless, which means the rim profile is straight. After some googling I still can't quite understand how the tire actually stays on, so I thought I'd ask here.

So how do they work? Are they relying on the pressure at one side from allowing the other side to be pulled off? Does that mean there's a risk that with a sudden depressurisation there's a risk the tire will dismount slightly easier than clinchers/hooks?
https://www.bikeradar.com/features/h...road-tubeless/

Originally Posted by VegasJen View Post
I'm curious about this as well. I have only heard of these tires in passing. Absolutely zero personal experience. I seem to recall hearing something about gluing the tires on? I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will chime in.
You're confusing hookless tires with tubular tires.
Koyote is offline  
Old 08-17-22, 12:01 PM
  #4  
ZHVelo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Posts: 788
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 472 Post(s)
Liked 205 Times in 148 Posts
I have been riding hookless rims since April. Tubeless setup. Work fine so far.

Not sure it is the pressure that keeps them on, as in fact there is a relatively low max pressure allowed (73 psi I believe).
ZHVelo is offline  
Old 08-17-22, 12:19 PM
  #5  
Iride01 
MotuekaCascadeChinook
 
Iride01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 11,452

Bikes: Tarmac Disc Comp Di2 - 2020

Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4652 Post(s)
Liked 3,150 Times in 2,193 Posts
Hookless tires and rims are not anything new. I was riding hookless on my Schwinn bikes in the 70's. They did disappear into obscurity for a time. Some tubeless mfr's seem to see them as a solution to making a better seal between the rim and tire.... IIRC and AFAIK.

Just like tires for crochet rims, the BSD of the tire is smaller than the rims overall diameter. Air pressure and the specific construction of the tire bead made them work. Usually they were wire bead tires in the old days, again IIRC. It was a hookless tire and rim that it took me over 150 psi to blow the tire off the rim. That was intentional just to see what it took and very much over the recommended max PSI.

Not all tires will work on hookless, but some will do both crochet and hookless rims.

Last edited by Iride01; 08-17-22 at 12:35 PM.
Iride01 is offline  
Old 08-17-22, 12:24 PM
  #6  
79pmooney
A Roadie Forever
 
79pmooney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 10,754

Bikes: (2) ti TiCycles, 2007 w/ triple and 2011 fixed, 1979 Peter Mooney, ~1983 Trek 420 now fixed and ~1973 Raleigh Carlton Competition gravel grinder

Mentioned: 115 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3559 Post(s)
Liked 2,359 Times in 1,546 Posts
I've had a tire come off at 20 mph. Hooked rim, old tire and a blowout. A crash I never want to do again. I haven't been able to enjoy fast descents the past 10 years because I cannot remove that from memory. (Broken ribs, collarbone, dented helmet and an acre of road rash.)

Hookless rims? For me, no thanks! In fact, I'm swapping to the tires and system we raced in the dark ages because I know from experience that a high speed blowout does nothing more than cause on instantaneous rise in heart rate! Sewups aka tubulars. Glued on well, you just brake to a stop from any speed. Change the tire and go on. So uneventful I cannot remember where I did this or which wheel it was (or one time or two). I know I've blown sewups at 45+. Underfunded bike racer. Food and tires were my biggest expenses.

All my bikes except the winter/rain/city bikes are going tubular. I'll keep one set of clincher wheels for high flat risk rides. ($$s) It's a tough trade-off. I now have to put up with the magic carpets; the sublime ride I haven't see since I rode quality tubulars an eon ago.
79pmooney is offline  
Likes For 79pmooney:
Old 08-17-22, 12:32 PM
  #7  
msu2001la
Senior Member
 
msu2001la's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Midwest
Posts: 2,078
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 978 Post(s)
Liked 970 Times in 554 Posts
I have hookless rims (Zipp 303S). I don't know how the physics/mechanics work, but in practice they function just like any other bike wheel I've owned. Tires are no more or less difficult to install than a regular rim.

Tires have to be "tubeless ready" and "hookless compatible", though you can still run these tires with tubes if you want. Most tubeless ready tires out there are hookless compatible, but there are a few exceptions. As mentioned above, the max pressure is 72psi. I run tires ranging from 28mm-35mm on them, and pressures ranging from 30-60psi. If you aren't into tubeless and/or want to run high pressure, a hooked rim is probably a better choice.
msu2001la is offline  
Old 08-17-22, 12:46 PM
  #8  
cxwrench
Senior Member
 
cxwrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Nor-Cal
Posts: 3,535

Bikes: lots

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1786 Post(s)
Liked 2,624 Times in 1,358 Posts
You do know that EVERY car and motorcycle rim is hookless, right? The diameter and shape of the 'shelf' next to the sidewall is what keeps the tire on. Tires are more likely to stay on if you flat with hookless rims than with hooked ones. That's why you hear that 'pop' when you inflate them, it's bead seating.
cxwrench is offline  
Likes For cxwrench:
Old 08-17-22, 12:48 PM
  #9  
msu2001la
Senior Member
 
msu2001la's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Midwest
Posts: 2,078
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 978 Post(s)
Liked 970 Times in 554 Posts
Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
I've had a tire come off at 20 mph. Hooked rim, old tire and a blowout. A crash I never want to do again. I haven't been able to enjoy fast descents the past 10 years because I cannot remove that from memory. (Broken ribs, collarbone, dented helmet and an acre of road rash.)

Hookless rims? For me, no thanks! In fact, I'm swapping to the tires and system we raced in the dark ages because I know from experience that a high speed blowout does nothing more than cause on instantaneous rise in heart rate! Sewups aka tubulars. Glued on well, you just brake to a stop from any speed. Change the tire and go on. So uneventful I cannot remember where I did this or which wheel it was (or one time or two). I know I've blown sewups at 45+. Underfunded bike racer. Food and tires were my biggest expenses.

All my bikes except the winter/rain/city bikes are going tubular. I'll keep one set of clincher wheels for high flat risk rides. ($$s) It's a tough trade-off. I now have to put up with the magic carpets; the sublime ride I haven't see since I rode quality tubulars an eon ago.
If a tubular can be pulled off the rim by hand to change on the side of the road, what's stopping that tire from rolling off in a high speed turn on a descent?
msu2001la is offline  
Old 08-17-22, 12:49 PM
  #10  
msu2001la
Senior Member
 
msu2001la's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Midwest
Posts: 2,078
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 978 Post(s)
Liked 970 Times in 554 Posts
Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
You do know that EVERY car and motorcycle rim is hookless, right? The diameter and shape of the 'shelf' next to the sidewall is what keeps the tire on. Tires are more likely to stay on if you flat with hookless rims than with hooked ones. That's why you hear that 'pop' when you inflate them, it's bead seating.
Worth noting that car/motorcycle tires are all tubeless too.
msu2001la is offline  
Old 08-17-22, 12:55 PM
  #11  
cxwrench
Senior Member
 
cxwrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Nor-Cal
Posts: 3,535

Bikes: lots

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1786 Post(s)
Liked 2,624 Times in 1,358 Posts
Originally Posted by msu2001la View Post
If a tubular can be pulled off the rim by hand to change on the side of the road, what's stopping that tire from rolling off in a high speed turn on a descent?
You can't just 'pull them off by hand' if they're glued well. You need to get a screwdriver or tire lever under that base tape and work it back and forth til you get 1/4 to 1/3 of the tire off the rim then you can remove it by hand. The bond and pressure, in conjunction w/ the shape of the rim keep them on.
cxwrench is offline  
Old 08-17-22, 12:59 PM
  #12  
burnthesheep
Newbie racer
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 3,341

Bikes: Propel, red is faster

Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1551 Post(s)
Liked 1,510 Times in 942 Posts
Originally Posted by msu2001la View Post
Worth noting that car/motorcycle tires are all tubeless too.
Almost always without any sealant also.
burnthesheep is offline  
Old 08-17-22, 01:04 PM
  #13  
79pmooney
A Roadie Forever
 
79pmooney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 10,754

Bikes: (2) ti TiCycles, 2007 w/ triple and 2011 fixed, 1979 Peter Mooney, ~1983 Trek 420 now fixed and ~1973 Raleigh Carlton Competition gravel grinder

Mentioned: 115 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3559 Post(s)
Liked 2,359 Times in 1,546 Posts
Originally Posted by msu2001la View Post
If a tubular can be pulled off the rim by hand to change on the side of the road, what's stopping that tire from rolling off in a high speed turn on a descent?
Simple. A better gluing job. Tubulars have been getting racers down the Alps and Pyrenees for over a century, Look at the photos of 1970s criteriums. They are all banked 45 degrees on the corners. If you rolled a tire, not only did you crash, you were now considered dangerous to ride near so you shaped up!

If you go to the tubular sticky thread, you will see tricks that tubular rider use so they can get those tires off. Different glues have different levels of "stick'. I had training/club race wheels that were not all that hard to change roadside and race wheels glued on solidly. And coming in the mail are steel tire levers so I can put one each in saddle bags to start stubborn tires. (Didn't need them years ago with my training tires but then, years ago I had much stronger, injury free hands.)
79pmooney is offline  
Old 08-17-22, 01:48 PM
  #14  
cyclezen
OM boy
 
cyclezen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Goleta CA
Posts: 4,114

Bikes: a bunch

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 417 Post(s)
Liked 477 Times in 331 Posts
Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
You do know that EVERY car and motorcycle rim is hookless, right? The diameter and shape of the 'shelf' next to the sidewall is what keeps the tire on. Tires are more likely to stay on if you flat with hookless rims than with hooked ones. That's why you hear that 'pop' when you inflate them, it's bead seating.
not every motorcycle (and there are a few antique cars which use tubed tires
But really not equivalent to road bikes...
have you ever handled a tubeless motorcycle tire (same as auto/truck), The bead is incredibly stiff, and will not stretch. Getting the bead over the wheel rim wall is quite difficult. I've done quite a few dozen of these, by hand. It takes some incredible effort AND exactly the proper technique and some monster levers.
Tubeless Bike tires are a cakewalk I can get a 6 yr old to do properly... But at the pressures of mtb and wide width tires, I'm not afraid of them coming off on a fast downhill sharp curve.
I don;t have tubeless 'road' experience, so I wouldn;t know what the forces are like for narrower tires and total flat...

Originally Posted by msu2001la View Post
If a tubular can be pulled off the rim by hand to change on the side of the road, what's stopping that tire from rolling off in a high speed turn on a descent?
good question. the real solution for tubular flats on the road, while riding is Change The Wheel... If you get a flat on a tubular, its a total PITA... When/if you get the flat tire off, putting on a 'spare' (complete tire) does nothing to guarantee that the tire won;t 'roll' with the slightest side force... The existing glue on rim is usually not tacky enough to assure any grip. If you're in the middle of any ride, you need to baby the ride back, or until you can get a proper wheel change... Putting on fresh glue won;t allow proper grip - it usually takes overnight for the glue/tire adhesion to set and be useable.
I tried some 'grip tape' for putting on a spare - on a training ride -, back when tape came out - I can warrant that move is a total FAIL!
Every race - BITD - there was 'bike inspection' - and the primary inspection was for 'tire adhesion ... there was the guy who could tear telephone directories in half (anyone not sure what that is ???) and they would try to roll the tire off the rim... with their thumbs... the really serious testers would test using their palms ! Once you 'fail' - don;t both bringing that wheel back for the re-test, it would certainly fail again.
and tubular cement and putting on a tire can be a very messy thing - an initiation which most all tubular neophytes will experience.
If one had any kind of 'support'/team, there were always spare wheels, with the proper freewheel range... Team mechanics always checked wheels and replaced worn tires right after a 'stage', to have it really for use the next morning...
sewups are a PITA, unless you are on a team...

Originally Posted by msu2001la View Post
Worth noting that car/motorcycle tires are all tubeless too.
same as above... same system, different in use...

Thing I wonder about - if the tire bead is compromised (casing cut near the bead) or somehow flawed, how does the affect a road bike hookless setup/use?
Booting the tire might be possible, sometimes, and then running a tube might get you home, but not if the tire needs a minimum pressure to hold the bead in place...

Ride On
Yuri
cyclezen is offline  
Old 08-17-22, 02:19 PM
  #15  
79pmooney
A Roadie Forever
 
79pmooney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 10,754

Bikes: (2) ti TiCycles, 2007 w/ triple and 2011 fixed, 1979 Peter Mooney, ~1983 Trek 420 now fixed and ~1973 Raleigh Carlton Competition gravel grinder

Mentioned: 115 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3559 Post(s)
Liked 2,359 Times in 1,546 Posts
Originally Posted by cyclezen View Post
...

good question. the real solution for tubular flats on the road, while riding is Change The Wheel... If you get a flat on a tubular, its a total PITA... When/if you get the flat tire off, putting on a 'spare' (complete tire) does nothing to guarantee that the tire won;t 'roll' with the slightest side force... The existing glue on rim is usually not tacky enough to assure any grip. If you're in the middle of any ride, you need to baby the ride back, or until you can get a proper wheel change... Putting on fresh glue won;t allow proper grip - it usually takes overnight for the glue/tire adhesion to set and be useable.
I tried some 'grip tape' for putting on a spare - on a training ride -, back when tape came out - I can warrant that move is a total FAIL!
Every race - BITD - there was 'bike inspection' - and the primary inspection was for 'tire adhesion ... there was the guy who could tear telephone directories in half (anyone not sure what that is ???) and they would try to roll the tire off the rim... with their thumbs... the really serious testers would test using their palms ! Once you 'fail' - don;t both bringing that wheel back for the re-test, it would certainly fail again.
and tubular cement and putting on a tire can be a very messy thing - an initiation which most all tubular neophytes will experience.
If one had any kind of 'support'/team, there were always spare wheels, with the proper freewheel range... Team mechanics always checked wheels and replaced worn tires right after a 'stage', to have it really for use the next morning...
sewups are a PITA, unless you are on a team...

...
I rode tubulars exclusively year round for 20 years. Race wheels got glued with one of the "hard" glues; Clement of the like. The rest with Tubasti. Road changes with Tubasti were not that hard to do and it kept enough stick, even after months, that the spare would bed down and be on pretty well by the time you got home. I'd ride gingerly the first few miles and refrain from criterium corners until I had a glued tire back on but the changed tires weren't dangerous as long as I kept that in mind.

And that system had a great safety factor. For years, bikes were my only wheels. I found myself i less than desirable neighborhoods. sometimes because they were by far the fasted way to get to where I wanted to go. Loved knowing that if I flatted, I'd be on my way in not much over 5 minutes. I didn't have to take the time to get anything "right". I could ride off with the tire on crooked, lopsided and it still worked. I could out-ride thieves on foot on this poorly mounted tire. That kind of sloppiness simply doesn't work with innertubes. (And those tires were far easier to change in rain, snow, poor light, inebriated, tired ... No skill or attention required at all. In my twenties, I did all of those.)
79pmooney is offline  
Likes For 79pmooney:
Old 08-17-22, 03:21 PM
  #16  
cyclezen
OM boy
 
cyclezen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Goleta CA
Posts: 4,114

Bikes: a bunch

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 417 Post(s)
Liked 477 Times in 331 Posts
yeah, pretty much same here, I would use Tubasti for my training wheels, especially the wheels I'd use for the 'rougher' rides... Clement was always used for team race wheels (and Vittoria in a pinch), once on, you often had to use pliers to get the tire started for getting off. Avoided Wolber cement - that stuff was brittle and also not the best grip.
Could even ride Tubasti well into winter - but the down side of Tubasti was, it would pick up road crud and within a day of wet, the tires all looked like their mascara ran... LOL!
Crooked Tires... some were so bad, when you rode behind someone who had some, it looked like the wheel had a huge wobble... LOL!
My training tires usually were Barums, and they generally had that 'wandering tread' look... LOL! But they wore like iron and were amazing in the wet.
Fun remembering back, but I don;t think I'd want to go back to sewups... Yeah, I rode sewups from 68 until '89 - 90' ish? happy to leave that in memories...
Ride On
Yuri
cyclezen is offline  
Old 08-17-22, 03:42 PM
  #17  
Herzlos
Full Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Scotland
Posts: 349

Bikes: Gravel, MTB

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 539 Post(s)
Liked 431 Times in 249 Posts
Originally Posted by burnthesheep View Post
Almost always without any sealant also.
Don't they normally have glue where the bead joins the rim? I'm sure when I've had tires fitted they've brushed something on the bead before fitting.
Herzlos is offline  
Old 08-17-22, 03:45 PM
  #18  
Herzlos
Full Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Scotland
Posts: 349

Bikes: Gravel, MTB

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 539 Post(s)
Liked 431 Times in 249 Posts
Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
Just like tires for crochet rims, the BSD of the tire is smaller than the rims overall diameter.
So basically the tyre sits inside the rim diameter and with a stiff enough sidewall (potentially aided by pressure) it can't come off without some external force?
Herzlos is offline  
Old 08-17-22, 03:55 PM
  #19  
Iride01 
MotuekaCascadeChinook
 
Iride01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 11,452

Bikes: Tarmac Disc Comp Di2 - 2020

Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4652 Post(s)
Liked 3,150 Times in 2,193 Posts
Originally Posted by Herzlos View Post
So basically the tyre sits inside the rim diameter and with a stiff enough sidewall (potentially aided by pressure) it can't come off without some external force?
I think that's basically the idea. And don't forget, they were designed to be work with the smooth bead or hookless rims.

And probably someone else might know better, but the crochet type rims were even more necessary when we started running 18mm wide tires on our bikes. Otherwise the likely hood of a smooth bead tire coming off is low. And back in my pre-teen and teen years, I didn't pay much attention to the max inflation pressure on the tire. I just pumped them up rock hard. Because at that time you were "badder" than all the rest.

Stories of the coming off are probably a tire that wasn't intended for hookless rims or otherwise likely as often as any have a crochet tire come off. When it's a crochet tire we look for a reason. When it's a hookless tire, we just blame hookless or PSI and don't look for the reason.
Iride01 is offline  
Old 08-17-22, 04:10 PM
  #20  
SurferRosa
Señor Member
 
SurferRosa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Pac NW
Posts: 6,112

Bikes: Old school lightweights

Mentioned: 75 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2560 Post(s)
Liked 3,537 Times in 1,882 Posts
The biggest issue with vintage hookless clincher rims is the inability to run narrow high pressure tires, though I'm sure some have been successful.
SurferRosa is offline  
Old 08-17-22, 04:55 PM
  #21  
cxwrench
Senior Member
 
cxwrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Nor-Cal
Posts: 3,535

Bikes: lots

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1786 Post(s)
Liked 2,624 Times in 1,358 Posts
Originally Posted by cyclezen View Post
not every motorcycle (and there are a few antique cars which use tubed tires
But really not equivalent to road bikes...
have you ever handled a tubeless motorcycle tire (same as auto/truck), The bead is incredibly stiff, and will not stretch. Getting the bead over the wheel rim wall is quite difficult. I've done quite a few dozen of these, by hand. It takes some incredible effort AND exactly the proper technique and some monster levers.
Tubeless Bike tires are a cakewalk I can get a 6 yr old to do properly... But at the pressures of mtb and wide width tires, I'm not afraid of them coming off on a fast downhill sharp curve.
I don;t have tubeless 'road' experience, so I wouldn;t know what the forces are like for narrower tires and total flat...


good question. the real solution for tubular flats on the road, while riding is Change The Wheel... If you get a flat on a tubular, its a total PITA... When/if you get the flat tire off, putting on a 'spare' (complete tire) does nothing to guarantee that the tire won;t 'roll' with the slightest side force... The existing glue on rim is usually not tacky enough to assure any grip. If you're in the middle of any ride, you need to baby the ride back, or until you can get a proper wheel change... Putting on fresh glue won;t allow proper grip - it usually takes overnight for the glue/tire adhesion to set and be useable.
I tried some 'grip tape' for putting on a spare - on a training ride -, back when tape came out - I can warrant that move is a total FAIL!
Every race - BITD - there was 'bike inspection' - and the primary inspection was for 'tire adhesion ... there was the guy who could tear telephone directories in half (anyone not sure what that is ???) and they would try to roll the tire off the rim... with their thumbs... the really serious testers would test using their palms ! Once you 'fail' - don;t both bringing that wheel back for the re-test, it would certainly fail again.
and tubular cement and putting on a tire can be a very messy thing - an initiation which most all tubular neophytes will experience.
If one had any kind of 'support'/team, there were always spare wheels, with the proper freewheel range... Team mechanics always checked wheels and replaced worn tires right after a 'stage', to have it really for use the next morning...
sewups are a PITA, unless you are on a team...


same as above... same system, different in use...

Thing I wonder about - if the tire bead is compromised (casing cut near the bead) or somehow flawed, how does the affect a road bike hookless setup/use?
Booting the tire might be possible, sometimes, and then running a tube might get you home, but not if the tire needs a minimum pressure to hold the bead in place...

Ride On
Yuri
I remember that from my first few years of racing. One of the officials would walk through the group at the start line and anyone that had tubulars would be 'tested'. Moto tires aren't hard to get on at all, it's just like bicycle tires just a larger format. It's all about knowing how to do it.
cxwrench is offline  
Old 08-18-22, 07:44 AM
  #22  
burnthesheep
Newbie racer
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 3,341

Bikes: Propel, red is faster

Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1551 Post(s)
Liked 1,510 Times in 942 Posts
Originally Posted by Herzlos View Post
Don't they normally have glue where the bead joins the rim? I'm sure when I've had tires fitted they've brushed something on the bead before fitting.
Only thing that came up in my 2 second search online was places selling bulk "mounting demounting lubricant".
burnthesheep is offline  
Likes For burnthesheep:
Old 08-18-22, 09:47 AM
  #23  
Kapusta
Advanced Slacker
 
Kapusta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 5,701

Bikes: Soma Fog Cutter, Surly Wednesday, Turner 5-Spot, Canfielld Tilt

Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2543 Post(s)
Liked 2,212 Times in 1,243 Posts
Originally Posted by Herzlos View Post
I was looking at a new pair of wheels and noticed they were hookless, which means the rim profile is straight. After some googling I still can't quite understand how the tire actually stays on, so I thought I'd ask here.

So how do they work? Are they relying on the pressure at one side from allowing the other side to be pulled off? Does that mean there's a risk that with a sudden depressurisation there's a risk the tire will dismount slightly easier than clinchers/hooks?
The tire bead sits on the shelf right next to the rim wall. In order for the tire bead to get over the rim wall, the bead would have to stretch quite a lot. In order to get the bead over the rim wall, you need to push the bead off the shelf and into the well in the middle of the rim. When the tire is inflated, the bead is being held in place on the shelf.

The design is common now and works very well for MTB where tires are run at pretty low pressures.
Kapusta is offline  
Likes For Kapusta:
Old 08-18-22, 02:25 PM
  #24  
WhyFi
Senior Member
 
WhyFi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 39,034

Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo

Mentioned: 352 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20349 Post(s)
Liked 9,049 Times in 4,492 Posts
Originally Posted by Herzlos View Post
So basically the tyre sits inside the rim diameter and with a stiff enough sidewall (potentially aided by pressure) it can't come off without some external force?
It's more about the bead diameter and the bead not stretching. If you look at the hookless profile, on the right, you'll see the center well and, on either side of that, the bead retaining humps and then the bead shelf. When installing, you're getting the beads in to the middle well, which gets you more room (smaller effective diameter) to get the tire on. When you hit it with air, the hooks slide up the sides of the well (which is why bead lube of some sort is helpful), over the humps and snap in to place on the bead shelfs. You should be able to imagine how most hookless tires, even without air, will stay bead-locked.

WhyFi is offline  
Likes For WhyFi:
Old 08-18-22, 02:55 PM
  #25  
tomato coupe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,565

Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2251 Post(s)
Liked 3,890 Times in 1,573 Posts
How do hookless tires stay on?

Cenzippetal force.
tomato coupe is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.