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What are the biggest wastes of money in biking?

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What are the biggest wastes of money in biking?

Old 09-02-22, 08:39 AM
  #226  
LarrySellerz
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Originally Posted by big john View Post
I don't think I've ever experienced this and I'm usually the biggest Fred out there. I've been teased at times for wearing tattered leg warmers or drooping socks or jerseys with holes where the pockets are sewn on, but I can't recall anyone telling me I would ride faster with some other clothes/shoes/parts. Maybe they just think I'm a lost cause.
The big one is unsolicited advice about foot retention
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Old 09-02-22, 08:49 AM
  #227  
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz View Post
The big one is unsolicited advice about foot retention
I can believe that. I did hear about it when I switched to mtb shoes and pedals on the road for a few years. I was riding with a group containing some racers and even a pro or two. Someone mentioned the SPD stuff but the one pro rode up and showed me he was also using them for the type of riding we were doing.
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Old 09-02-22, 08:50 AM
  #228  
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz View Post
The big one is unsolicited advice about foot retention
If you're dropping in to a spirited group ride with them, that's self-preservation speaking.
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Old 09-02-22, 10:06 AM
  #229  
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Originally Posted by elcruxio View Post
Where does comfort come into any of what I wrote?

Anyone can be comfortable in a loosely knit loose fitting cycling jersey. In fact I'd go as far as to state that the better more technical jerseys aren't nearly as comfortable, tt least initially.

Well I guess getting or not getting sunburn is a comfort issue since it does sting a bit. And getting melanomas cut out is definitely an uncomfortable experience.
I reacted positively to this post because I have a clue about the specific situations he is describing----rather, similar if not identical situations.

"Comfort" can be not having wind freezing your genitals to numbness while sweat pours off your head and back, so that when you stop the evaporative chill is a real health hazard. "Comfort" can be wind protection for your chest and sun protection for your back, plus good venting for your back, as @elcruxio mentions---intense sun on a chilly day burns you just the same as intense sun on a hot day, and chilly weather is chilly on a sunny day ....

When i was poor and there wasn't much high-tech bike stuff anyway, I made some of my own weather gear to provide a measure of comfort on my multiple daily rides, half in daytime and half in the dark. When i say "comfort" I am not talking lounge wear, or pajamas .... i mean, "maintaining a healthy situation and avoiding extreme unpleasantness." (Trust me, my polyethylene diaper was not particularly comfortable and people probably were afraid to ask what I was wearing .... but it beat frostbite.)

As I read it elcruxio is talking about that kind of comfort---not "Wearing this jersey feels like I am getting caressed by the soft hands of heavenly virgins" or whatever, of "These shorts fell like my tool kit is like lying in a feather bed." "Comfort" can be the avoidance of discomfort. And if you don't think getting your head frozen is uncomfortable, you have probably let it happen too many times.

Last edited by Maelochs; 09-02-22 at 10:23 AM.
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Old 09-02-22, 10:18 AM
  #230  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
I would wager that almost no one who prefers cycling specific attire popped out of the womb thinking, "I want to dress like a sausage." Instead, those people have largely gone through a phase of non-specific attire that lead them to their choice, so telling them that they're wasting their money on their attire is a different kind of arrogance. I would think that it's probably also a safe bet that most of those cyclists, with a preference for better quality and/or more expensive attire, went through a more frugal phase, as well, and found it lacking; telling them that "poly is poly," and insinuating that they're fools being parted from their money is, again, a special kind of arrogance.
At least sometimes.

I spent a lot of days and miles riding in whatever, gradually adjusting as I learned what worked best and what didn't---for me. I don't care what other people wear and I don't care what other people think of what I wear, but I know the process I went though to end up where I am now, and it was all very logical and extremely well tested, because I had to ride many miles at a time many times a day pretty much every day of the week and it mattered a lot to me for that reason.

I don't like "expensive" anything. I like "worthwhile" stuff. Stuff which doesn't work, doesn't last, is liable to fail unexpectedly and massively, ... is a waste of money to me. I spend as little as I can to get the stuff which I know from experience will work, and sometimes I go by reputation (I have never had a bad anything from Pearl Izumi, for instance) and I am not afraid to try new brands, but I try to get a personal endorsement when I can (I tried Funkier brand bibs because I saw them on sale and I saw a guy wearing them in a group ride and he said they were for real. I tired Sportful because I thought there might be a Merlin Cycles house brand ... i guess not, but they are good bibs for pretty cheap. I pay whatever I have to, to get the stuff which will do what I need it to do.

Maybe Assos at eight times the price really would feel like my goods were lying in a feather bed .... but all I want is a comfortable pad and decent compression and fabric sufficiently thick that I can imagine it lasting a few years or more ..... (Plenty of people buying Assos already, they don't need my money, and I do. )

I wear Qwik-Dri tees in the winter but I find them to be hotter in the summer than a good breathable jersey. Some people have different perceptions. I don't care.

Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
At least the other direction can sometimes be tempered by the misguided enthusiasm of wanting to share potentially helpful knowledge with someone that they assume to be inexperienced (which can be a sign of their own inexperience). I mean, I feel like it's best to avoid giving unsolicited advice, but sometimes they mean well? *shrug* And that's not to say that I doubt that there are those out there that giving advice that comes from a different and all too smug place - aholes are gonna ahole - but I've been fortunate enough to mix with pretty chill folks and can't say that I've experienced that myself... then again, I'm moderately fast and extremely fashionable, so...
You are lucky you can pedal away form a-holes. try as I might I cannot outride myself.

Last edited by Maelochs; 09-02-22 at 10:22 AM.
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Old 09-02-22, 10:18 AM
  #231  
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My wife has no idea how much her cycling kit costs, yet she consistently prefers the more expensive stuff. She's either got a sixth sense about the cost, or the more expensive stuff is noticeably better.
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Old 09-02-22, 10:33 AM
  #232  
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500 OSPWs
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Old 09-02-22, 10:58 AM
  #233  
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz View Post
The phenomenon of cyclists with lots of nice things telling cyclists with barely anything that they would do better with x/y/z is definitely real and a big reason roadies have an "elitist" reputation. Its not some online thing
In my experience, it's not exclusive to roadies.
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Old 09-02-22, 11:19 AM
  #234  
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz View Post
The phenomenon of cyclists with lots of nice things telling cyclists with barely anything that they would do better with x/y/z is definitely real and a big reason roadies have an "elitist" reputation. Its not some online thing
Love the broad sweeping generalization.
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Old 09-02-22, 11:49 AM
  #235  
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz View Post
The phenomenon of cyclists with lots of nice things telling cyclists with barely anything that they would do better with x/y/z is definitely real and a big reason roadies have an "elitist" reputation. Its not some online thing


This is not strictly confined to cycling

I was going through a rough patch a few years back and recall a friend telling me

(im paraphrasing) "If you dont pull 50k out and invest it in such and such, you're stupid and will kick yourself later !" --- while i was living paycheck to paycheck
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Old 09-02-22, 12:10 PM
  #236  
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Originally Posted by DMC707 View Post
This is not strictly confined to cycling

I was going through a rough patch a few years back and recall a friend telling me

(im paraphrasing) "If you dont pull 50k out and invest it in such and such, you're stupid and will kick yourself later !" --- while i was living paycheck to paycheck
Let me guess... he wanted you to invest in crypto...
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Old 09-02-22, 12:22 PM
  #237  
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz View Post
The big one is unsolicited advice about foot retention
I think you are absolutely right about this.

I took a bit of a break from SPD clip-ins, after I had a bit of a break of some bones, and during that recovery period, I got a lot of unsolicited (and unwanted) advice.

Having said that, I am back to using (mountain) SPDs and really expensive shoes to go with them, but it is primarily because it now hurts much less to ride that way, and psychologically I feel more secure clipped in, especially when climbing hills.

My wife is the exact opposite. She vastly prefers large platform pedals on her road bike, and 5-10 shoes to stick to them.
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Old 09-02-22, 12:28 PM
  #238  
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Originally Posted by elcruxio View Post
Where does comfort come into any of what I wrote?

.
Wait, what? "Breathability" is not a matter of comfort?!

I'm only saying that quality is also a subjective term based on whether or not those characteristics are relevant to you.

If you want to turn this into somebody has to be wrong "debate", that's fine, but I'm not arguing with any of your quality criteria, and nothing I've said indicates that I did, or suggests that you shouldn't articulate what you mean by quality and value. As a matter of fact, I think you're doing a very good job doing so, I just don't think there's much reason for telling other people they're wrong if they're using other criteria.
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Old 09-02-22, 12:31 PM
  #239  
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Originally Posted by Milton Keynes View Post
Let me guess... he wanted you to invest in crypto...
was actually a real estate deal. LOL, i missed the boat on crypto too -- i guess i'm destined to stay downtrodden
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Old 09-02-22, 12:40 PM
  #240  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
I hear you, but I think that one also has to consider where the advice is coming from and who the advice is being given to.

I would wager that almost no one who prefers cycling specific attire popped out of the womb thinking, "I want to dress like a sausage." Instead, those people have largely gone through a phase of non-specific attire that lead them to their choice, so telling them that they're wasting their money on their attire is a different kind of arrogance. I would think that it's probably also a safe bet that most of those cyclists, with a preference for better quality and/or more expensive attire, went through a more frugal phase, as well, and found it lacking; telling them that "poly is poly," and insinuating that they're fools being parted from their money is, again, a special kind of arrogance.

At least the other direction can sometimes be tempered by the misguided enthusiasm of wanting to share potentially helpful knowledge with someone that they assume to be inexperienced (which can be a sign of their own inexperience). I mean, I feel like it's best to avoid giving unsolicited advice, but sometimes they mean well? *shrug* And that's not to say that I doubt that there are those out there that giving advice that comes from a different and all too smug place - aholes are gonna ahole - but I've been fortunate enough to mix with pretty chill folks and can't say that I've experienced that myself... then again, I'm moderately fast and extremely fashionable, so...

Nahhh, I think you're just giving charitable assumptions to one side (the snobby advice types) and uncharitable to the other (the reverse snob type). I don't find that either of these groups tend to be knowledgeable, and if pressed, I could apply an uncharitable "fool and his money trying to justify his own ill-advised waste of money" assumption to the snobby advice group. I think those of you who prefer expensive gear just haven't experienced the kind of condescension we who don't prefer expensive gear get from the snobby advice group but you do get it from the reverse snobs, so you don't have trouble understanding how obnoxious that is.

Honestly, I think the knowledgeable people understand that the motor is too variable for one-size-fits-all prescriptions to make a lot of sense for any given individual.
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Old 09-02-22, 12:49 PM
  #241  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
If you're dropping in to a spirited group ride with them, that's self-preservation speaking.
Clipless pedals don't make you immune from crashing and sustaining injuries.
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Old 09-02-22, 12:54 PM
  #242  
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Originally Posted by Polaris OBark View Post
Where I find the Garmin radar the most useful is where cars take me by surprise. So if I am going downhill with enough wind in my ears that I don't hear them approach, or if I am on a rural windy mountain road in the redwoods (where I live), it can really help. I have also come to realize that most of my conflicts with cars result from unexpected encounters. It gives me a heads-up, and I can then assess the situation and decide what evasive action, if any, might be required. The radar helps to remove the element of surprise. I try never to bike without it.

I do find it to be of considerably less use if I am in heavy traffic, because it is just beeping constantly.
My mirror does exactly the same thing as your radar.
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Old 09-02-22, 01:05 PM
  #243  
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i was about to post pedals and cleats. or contact points in general
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Old 09-02-22, 01:07 PM
  #244  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Nahhh, I think you're just giving charitable assumptions to one side (the snobby advice types) and uncharitable to the other (the reverse snob type).
What's the charitable reverse-snob assumption? That they never stopped to consider the obvious - that the person they're talking to has been there and done that?

Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
... and if pressed, I could apply an uncharitable "fool and his money trying to justify his own ill-advised waste of money" assumption to the snobby advice group.
Without being a reverse-snob?

Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
I think those of you who prefer expensive gear just haven't experienced the kind of condescension we who don't prefer expensive gear get from the snobby advice group but you do get it from the reverse snobs, so you don't have trouble understanding how obnoxious that is.
In the past, I've kicked around the idea of riding in civvies and platforms, to see what reactions that might elicit , but I could never hide the legs and sharp tan lines well enough to fool any but the least observant.

Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Honestly, I think the knowledgeable people understand that the motor is too variable for one-size-fits-all prescriptions to make a lot of sense for any given individual.
Probably.
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Old 09-02-22, 01:07 PM
  #245  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
My mirror does exactly the same thing as your radar.
Really? Your mirror emits a warning sound when you aren't looking at it?

Yet another of your endless stream of reading comprehension fails.
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Old 09-02-22, 01:19 PM
  #246  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
Clipless pedals don't make you immune from crashing and sustaining injuries.
Obviously not, but I'm going to be leery of someone on platforms in a situation where there's a likelihood of a sprint or similar. And if they're shirtless and helmetless, to boot? I'm staying well away from 'em.
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Old 09-02-22, 01:21 PM
  #247  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
My mirror does exactly the same thing as your radar.
No, it doesn't.
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Old 09-02-22, 01:24 PM
  #248  
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Originally Posted by Polaris OBark View Post
Really? Your mirror emits a warning sound when you aren't looking at it?

Yet another of your endless stream of reading comprehension fails.
Personally I don't feel a need to use gadgets with warning sounds...All I need is to keep glancing in my mirror to see what's coming behind me. Mirrors have worked great for me in heavy traffic and on rural roads with little traffic
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Old 09-02-22, 01:25 PM
  #249  
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Originally Posted by Polaris OBark View Post
Really? Your mirror emits a warning sound when you aren't looking at it?
His mirror must also changes its flashing pattern and intensity in response to an approaching vehicle.
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Old 09-02-22, 01:38 PM
  #250  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
Personally I don't feel a need to use gadgets with warning sounds...All I need is to keep glancing in my mirror to see what's coming behind me. Mirrors have worked great for me in heavy traffic and on rural roads with little traffic
Nevertheless, thanks for sharing your invaluable experience with the idiots.
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