Clyde1820

... until it doesn't. The beauty of a warning tone/beep is that the ears can be awaiting one thing while the eyes remain on the road. For a mirror to do the same thing as a rear-facing radar tone/beep, one would have to take eyes off the road. Which, to be fair, can be dangerous (even deadly) on a roadway without much room, with crud on the surface where the bike needs to be ridden, etc.

I, too, don't use radar and instead use a mirror. But there are indeed times when I simply cannot risk taking my eyes off the roadway ahead of me, particularly after rains or winds when it's entirely likely to have slippery crud in the road that'll dump a bike with the least "wrong" move. For the periods of time when I simply cannot risk taking my eyes off the road surface before me, I'm forced to do without the rear-view mirror's input. A radar could warn even in such situations.

Milton Keynes

Ah, so oceanfront property in New Mexico...

wolfchild

A mirror shows me exactly what's behind me, what more do you need ?

roadie276

My wife got one of these from work, and since it just had a screw on cap but had the right threads, I tossed a better cap on it that I could actually drink from while riding. It's...surprisingly great. I have to not put too much ice in it or I'll drink all the water and be left with a bunch of ice that I can't drink on my (admittedly often not that long; usually an hour-ish) ride. I've left it sitting overnight with ice in it and found that not all the ice had melted in the morning. Previously my vanilla stainless steel bottles would melt any and all ice in the first 5-10 minutes or so, and it'd be warm by 20-30 minutes in or something.

Herzlos

The Varia, when connected to a head unit, will give you a notification that something is approaching *without you having to look away from the cockpit*, and will give you an indication of approach speed. It has a wide field of view and can't be obscured by the bike or rider because it's on the back.

I have limited experience with mirrors but I found them pretty much useless because the view wasn't very good and to be able to see around me it'd need to be far off to the periphery.

WhyFi

If *you* don't need any more, that's fine, but you're all kinds of wrong in saying that your mirror does everything that the Varia does.

LarrySellerz

How would platform pedals be dangerous in a sprint? The only time they would be dangerous is sharp cornering, and they let me in the practice crits with them.

Eric F 

You have to look in the mirror to know if a car is approaching behind you. if you don't look, you'll never know until it's within hearing range. Varia will alert me with a beep that something is within its radar range - which is beyond my hearing range - without me having to look at my computer. I don't need to look until after I've already been warned. When I'm riding solo, I appreciate the info Varia provides, and the way it does it. If it's not for you, don't buy one.

livedarklions

Let me help you out here, the uncharitable assumption is itself a bit of snobbishness, you've just assumed that the root cause of reverse snobbery is bitterness and jealousy instead of a sincere but poorly informed intention to save you from being conned. So of course my uncharitable explanation of snobs is reverse snobbery, just as your assumption that it must be bitterness and envy os snobby.

Maelochs

yes .... all the rational and honest people here know these things because they are simply e and observable facts.

However .... you don't find the need to use radar. @clyde_1820, if you really thought Varia was all that ... you would use it. So, you think the extra benefits it gives you over mirrors is simply not important enough to warrant using it.

This is basically what @wolfchild is saying=---his existing system, a mirror, provides him with sufficient Perceived safety that he doesn't see the need for a Varia system,. Exactly the same as you.

I assume that @wolfchild has made the same calculation you have, and has come to the same conclusion .... the mirror offers a sufficient margin of safety that the radar is not warranted----In His Case. (Same conclusion you have apparently reached, and I and many others.)

I had a good online friend who swore by radar, and he rode the roads of South Florida, which is crazy enough .... and road them daily. Good guy, had a stroke, sad, welcome to life, eh?

But he extolled the virtues of Varia, and he had all the decades and all the miles to know what he was about. I would never tell him he was wrong because he freaking Knew, from his long experience, rationally analyzed, what worked best for him,

Many decades earlier, I commuted on the roads of Central Florida, at the time the cyclist death capital of the world every year .... without a mirror. I got real good at telling where cars were and what they were doing, just by listening, even in heavy two-way traffic. I can't do that any more but then, I don't practice several times a day with my life on the line. Whatever---the idea that even a mirror is essential is demonstrably not correct. My very existence proves it. Does that mean vvaria is not neded? Yup. Does it mean that varia offers no benefits? Nope.

We are all rational adults, regardless of how we act here. We know this stuff.

If some people choose to use clips, clipless, flats, Varia, mirrors, whatever ..... none of it is necessary and all of it offers certain benefits. We all make our choices.

Maelochs

But .... you still have to take your eyes off the road.

In the extreme conditions which have been discussed above, taking one's eyes off the road is simply not a safe option. Having a beep alert me to an approaching car might or might not be useful at that time, because I really couldn't react to the information anyway. If I looked away and slipped and fell, the Varia could tell me "You are about to get run over," but I would already know that.

I have experience with many types of mirrors and found out how to use them. But you and I are different people and I am cool with that.

LarrySellerz

Looking over my shoulder is painful and i cant do it too many times in quick succession so im pretty sure im going to have to get a mirror. Maybe i can find a stealthy one or disguise it somehow, like a massive brass bell with a little mirror hiding behind. That would be sick, would pay good money.

WhyFi

If you want to help me out, you can tell me where I assumed that the root cause of reverse snobbery is bitterness and jealousy.

I just don't believe that people are dumb enough to possess a sincere, but poorly informed, intention of saving me from being conned by something that my own experience has already told me is worthwhile... unless they also possess the level of arrogance to believe that their experiences and sensibilities should trump my own, which is, again, the crux of the matter.

livedarklions

Sorry, that wasn't you who said the bitterness and envy, I lost track of where this exchange started, but I stand by the notion that snobbery is just as prevalent and obnoxious in cycling as reverse snobbery.

tomato coupe

Can't you see behind you when you're on a zoom meeting?

The Chemist

I've used many kinds of mirrors too, and I prefer the Varia. Seeing cars further back than you can see in a small mirror (up to 140m - no way you'll see that far back in a tiny 5cm diameter mirror, no matter how good the optical quality of the mirror is) and getting a much better judgement of their approaching speed are huge advantages of the Varia over a mirror, IMO.

Maelochs

Yup .... I don't need to see a car at 140 meters (though I can under optimal conditions.) What I need to know is where the car is when it is close ... but no matter if I know its closing speed or not .... I don't care. It is going to hit me or not .... so far, not. And as it gets closer, I use all my senses .... but as I say, each has a preference and none of it is really important.

As long as we are not crushed by the cars coming up from behind us, I don't care if you tow a toddler in a trailer with a radar gun who calls out closing speeds and vehicle descriptions.

By the way, I use a normal-sized 5-cm mirror. I don't even know what a tiny cm is.

WhyFi

140m allows me to ride to the left of the fog line, even on a 55mph road, where the pavement is smoother, there's virtually no debris, and I'm more visible, while still giving me plenty of time to move over when alerted. The adaptive flashing pattern and my yielding of the lane are indications to drivers that I'm aware of their approach. With all of that in mind, I don't think that it's a coincidence that, in the ~16k miles since getting a Varia, I've had only one a-hole buzz me.

"We all have preferences"? Sure. "None of it is important"? Nah.

wolfchild

You said it, not me...I never called anybody an idiot for using a radar...All I said was that a mirror is more than sufficient for me to keep track of what is happening behind me.

GhostRider62

I use a Varia and one or even two mirrors when riding. The Varia lets me enjoy the countryside. When it beeps, I observe the motor vehicle in my mirror to make sure they move over. Too many cyclists mowed down and killed. A Varia by itself isn't very effective for me because I cannot turn my head to look if the car has moved over on my very, very narrow country lanes in my neck of the woods. The Varia simply lets me enjoy the ride a bit more but I rely on my eyes. If I had to choose one over the other, it would be the Italian cycle mirror on the handlebar end.

Maelochs

So .... now that we have discussed things we don't think are wastes of money .... let's talk about serious stuff.

How the heck do I carry my golf club while transporting my truck battery----without wasting any money? I might need the money for that money shot.

Herzlos

Not really, unless you've mounted your head unit somewhere strange. If it's on an out-front mount near the centre of the cockpit you can still have the road in your central vision, just like you can look at your cars speedometer without looking away from the road.

Whereas with a mirror, it'd have to be off to the side in order to see anything behind you.

Polaris OBark

If that were the case, I would not have objected.

But you actually said something quite different.

WhyFi

Amazon delivered this, um, highly touted jersey today.




Anyone that thinks that this holds a candle to a $100 jersey from a reputable cycling apparel manufacturer is cracked. The stitching is second-rate. The zipper is not particularly good bad. The fabric plays a weird trick of actually feeling okay in-hand, but downright icky on the skin when worn. Also, it stretches, but it's not particularly supple - weird.

The worst offense, though, is the cut. It's just not right, not if you're aiming for something reasonably form-fitting. While the chest measurement is on, as far as the sizing chart is considered, it's tight though the shoulders, the neck opening is too large in diameter and the neck cuff kind of stands up and would scoop in air while moving. I have a somewhat long torso for my height, yet this is still way too long. Unless pulled all the way down - which wouldn't be feasible on the bike (I need to articulate my legs) - the zipper bunches up and juts out. The length and cut makes it seem like it was made to traverse a beer gut. Going back to the shoulders - again, it's just off in a weird way. The arm hole position feels wrong (too far back?) and they don't articulate well; this wouldn't work for me even on my less aggressive gravel bike. On the road bike? Uhhh, no.

Overall, I would say that this is more like a shirt made out of second-rate "tech" material, not something that was made with much knowledge of on-bike position and movement.

The $75 Core jerseys from Rapha are leagues better.

Nyah

QR-disc brakes. I'd rather (and do) ride V-brakes.