Maelochs

I very occasionally participate in group rides (you see how I am here, so you can well imagine I don't get many invites.) Last ride I attended, three people were on E-assist.

One pair were an older couple, about my size, doing a 30-day test of some expensive German e-machines. This was a couple who loved to do long (multi-day) rides but were finding fitness an occasional issue (I can attest that just riding a bike doesn't make the weight disappear, but I also have no idea what their health situations were.) There were just trying electric-assist for the first time because it was an exceptionally hilly (for Flatahoma) route .... and the one time the lady really needed it, on the final steep ramp leading back to the finishing parking lot, it failed utterly ..... The rest of the ride she was mostly carrying this 50+ pound bike just to have a little help at the very end.

The other guy was the gentleman I mentioned above with the assisted Cervelo. He was a lifelong rider who was very fit and very old (anyone older than myself I consider to be "way too old.") He didn't really want e-assist---he wanted not to need it, but after bits and pieces of him wore out and fell off, he realized that to keep up he might occasionally need a little help.

That is where I could see many of us ending up .... when it comes to choosing between hanging up the bike, only riding very slowly in tiny circles to avoid the slightest incline, or turning up the power-boost ....

But frankly, I don't much care what others do. it is easier to dodge a chuckle-head on an e-bike than that same chuckle-head in a car. There will always be those folks out there, inflicting themselves on the rest of us .... what ya gonna do, right?

If I make it to 90 and am still out there trundling along on my 16,000 watt e-assist (it will likely need that much power considering how big I might be by then .... ) well .... I will yell at everyone and everyone will laugh at me .... so not much change ......

Herzlos

I'll be honest, if I could afford a nice electric road bike I would get one. Not necessarily because I need it all the time, but it'd let me push a bit further knowing that if I run out of energy and I'm still 20 miles from civilization, or I hit a hill I'm not up to, that I can just turn on the motor and get some help. It'd probably allow me to take longer and harder routes even if I rarely actually used the motor.

Is it cheating? Who cares?

wolfchild

Not unless their battery gets discharged and they're forced to pedal a 60 - 70 pound bike

Calsun

The notion that because people are on an e-bike they are going to be going at 30 mph is silly and one can spend 10 minutes at a bike path and simply observe to know this is not the case. A Class III bike only provides pedal assistance and I can go just as fast on a non e-bike. What I do see are people with e-bikes that can make it up a hill and not have to dismount and walk to the top. They can be of average fitness and enjoy bicycling.

On the bike path near my house the primary problem encounters are with pedestrians with strollers and dogs (often off leash) and ground squirrels. I avoid one particular section that has a high density of groups who will block the bike path as they stand and chat. They never think that they should get off the paved path to chat.

REI and others sell good e-bikes for less than $2500. That is what I spent for my standard CF road bike in 2000. We bought a small plug-in hybrid and paid $55,000 and a 1/2 ton pickup that cost $65,000 so a $2500 e-bike is not excessively expensive. For commuters having their car sit at home saves on gas, saves on tire wear, saves on auto insurance, saves on parking fees, and that easily offsets the price of the e-bike.

TurboTrueno

I never even thought of E Mountain bikes. that does sound pretty cool. I ride in the city so I have only seen E road bikes so far

MattTheHat 

Simply incorrect. Watts are watts. With a pedal assist ebike I can get the same workout I can get with my regular bike. Plain and simple. I simply go faster. What’s the point? Going faster. Faster is funnerer.

I will admit that unless I’m monitoring my power output, there is a tendency to not push as hard as on the regular bike. And the rougher the road surface the more this is a tendency. It’s like my brain is used to a given average speed and if I zone out, I won’t push as hard.

I think for many non lifelong athletes such as myself, a slightly lower workout load could be a good thing.

Herzlos

Maybe it's a regional thing, because I've seen hundreds of E mountain bikes, I think 1 E gravel bike and no E road bikes. But then in the UK our biggest bike retailers (Halfords and Decathlon) have has E mountain bikes for a few years now, and it's easier to stick a battery on something that's already chunky.

prj71

Your regular bike isn't assisting you up the hills. Thus you are NOT getting the same workout.

Herzlos

Not really, the workout is based on how hard your legs are working, not what the bike is doing. Sure, for a given hill at a given speed an e-bike will need less watts to get up it compared to an identical bike without a motor. But that e-bike could be travelling faster/further for the same work out.

I'd get the same workout hammering away on an e-bike for an hour as I would on a manual bike. I'd just cover more distance and probably have more fun on the e-bike.

If you're arguing that e-bikes should be banned because they are too easy and not "real cycling", how do you feel about super low mountain bike gearing? Should we all be using 52/38 x 14-24 road gearing?

Flip Flop Rider

if you don't like how I ride my e-bike, then get off the sidewalk!

MattTheHat 

I don't train by hills, I train by power. Average power is average power. The difference is that I cover more miles at the same average power on the ebike because of the higher average speed. Now, I will agree that the ebike makes hills "shorter" since you spend less time on any given hill at the same power output. But, "exercise benefits" are not all determined by the length of time spent on climbs.

Kapusta

Low gearing does not reduce the amount of work one must do to get to the top of a hill.

prj71

Not only do they make hills shorter they require less effort.

mschwett 

you don’t get it - how much of a workout you get is entirely dependent on two factors:

1) how hard you pedal
2) how long you pedal for.

if you ride all out for an hour on an e bike and an hour on a regular bike, you get … EXACTLY the same workout. there is no debating this, it is science. watts x hours = watt hours. converts more or less directly to calories.

if your workout is governed by distance, not by time, the yes you’ll get less workout because you’ll get to the end of it faster with the assist.

MattTheHat 

Only by the merit of spending less time on the hill. I put out the same power up a given climb on my ebike as my regular bike. I have power meters on both...they don't lie.

Herzlos

True, though it lowers the perceived effort or strain. There's definitely hills I'd be broken trying to ride up in top gear that I can comfortably do in bottom gear.

Herzlos

Sorta, but I can't tell if you're being deliberately obtuse by this point, because you have some kind of e-bike grievance. Jealousy?

If I put 100w into a manual bike up a hill for 1 minute, I'll burn 6kj (6 calories) of energy (100x60)
If I put 100w into an e-bike up a hill for 1 minute, I'll still burn the same 6 calories of energy, I'll just be further up the hill.

Granted, if I did the same course in the same time on both bikes, I'd use less energy on the e-bike. But the point you're deliberately missing is that there's nothing stopping me putting the same effort in, getting the same workout, and travelling further or getting home faster, by using an e-bike.

How many calories I burn is only related to how hard and fast I move my legs whatever I'm sitting on.

70sSanO

Apart from kids out having fun, from what I have casually seen, the vast majority of adults on e-bikes don’t “appear” to be using them to reduce climbing fatigue and recovery to ride further. Although that is the result vs not riding at all or very short distances.

They are riding typically more casual flat bar heavy e-bikes.

I cannot recall seeing a true e-road bike, although I do agree they would be easy to spot by the downtube and BB shell, for a mid-drive. For someone who likes to pedal, spinning a crank can be a lot of fun, and the less of a workout argument does diminish a bit, especially if recovery from climbing reduces performance. I can see using e-assist to flatten out the hills a bit or offset a headwind can make a ride more enjoyable.

It is really the mindset of the rider.

John

Jan Feetz

Why don't people want to pedal anymore?To keep up, to go fast, to go up a hill, etc., a cyclist has to pedal. And for some, pedaling a bicycle hurts. Hurting is no fun. A person riding an EBike can reduce that pain and suffering.

Sounds like your of the old school Fausto Coppi's mindset:
"Cycling is Suffering"

indyfabz

I’m currently pedaling across Pennsylvania fully loaded. Currently in Howard. I’m scheduled to arrive home in Philly on Sunday. Hopefully I’ll be back in time for the second half of the game.

No motor for me.

kayakindude

Exactly, I've been called a cheater and had riders say it's easy to climb a hill because we have a motor. Pretty sure that heart rate monitor and sweat pouring off is an indication that we are exercising. Road riding is not the same as road racing. If I'm cheating the response is simple- you win!

Doubleplay

It's perfectly normal in a country where almost half of the people are obese.

prj71

Ain't that the truth. They aren't going to lose any weight riding those e-bikes.

Doubleplay

As I also train with power meter I agree with you for the pedal assist ebike as far as power goes and calories burned.
But on a flatter road one can go further on the bicycle because your speed is governed by manufacturer and laws.
Having said that an ebike is not a bicycle and it's a separate category. Bicycles are human powered by definition and you are comparing apples to oranges.

TurboTrueno

I applaud all the ebikers doing big exercise here. All I see are commuters zooming up hills with legs motionless

The bike in post 52 looks really fun