tyrion

Thinking about getting the standard casing (cheapest) for an i25mm rim. Want to hear tubeless experiences.

Context: Gravelking SK 700x50 have worked wonderfully tubelessly for 2 years on my rims. To get a more expensive tire that gives me tubeless hassles is a lose/lose. But to get a bigger softer tire that works well tubelessly on i25 rims - that's a win/win.

Who can tell me about experiences with that tire going tubeless?

chaadster

I run standard casing Herse Switchback Hill on WTB i23 rims pretty successfully. As I recall, they mounted up easily enough, bit they did take quite a bit of SealSmart before they stabilized pressure holding. I still have rapid leakdown on the rear, but I think that’s the valve which needs cleaned and the pin straightened. Anyway, I’ve been living with them for 3 years, so I guess it ain’t that bad, although they’re fussier than Schwalbe Pro One to setup and maintain.

As a side note, I tried running Herse extralight casings tubeless on another bike; don’t even bother trying to do that. Run Aerothan TPU if you want the EL casing, and you’ll get most of the tubeless benefits, to a large extent, without any hassles.

tyrion

I'm guessing the $92 endurance casing version would be better at pressure holding, but man, $92 for a bicycle tire. I guess if I can get decent mileage out of it it's not that bad of a value.

Polaris OBark

I have the enduracne plus set up tubeless on my touring bike (HED Belgium + rims). Setup was completely uneventful. I think the sidewalls are less porous than their extra-light. I also found the Panaracer sealant isn't necessarily the best. Fortunately it is completely compatible with orange seal. The main problem is the walnut shell fragments are so big that you have to pour the stuff directly into a partially unmounted tire. Otherwise it won't make it though the syringe or valve stem.

In retrospect, the 55mm tires are possibly too big for my touring bike with 700C rims -- toe overlap is now an issue.

chaadster

Yes, that’s probably true, but I really wouldn’t hesitate to try the standard casing tubeless; it’s just the extralight casing that’s the nightmare.

I don’t do high mileage on either set of Herse tires I run, so I cannot speak to durability in a meaningful way.

Polaris OBark

I've got my extralight 38mm Barlow Pass set up tubless. So far it has been ok.
@chaadster chaadster :What is the nightmare you are experiencing.

Wildwood

Seriously, what does a 55mm tire offer over a 50mm?
Maybe the RH for the supple sidewalls?

Does anything over ~45mm ride better over gravel road/trail?

alcjphil

Holy wow. What bike do you have that has clearance for that size tire?

tyrion

5mm, more or less.

tyrion

Velo Orange Piolet - "the Cadillac of minivans of bikes"

Polaris OBark

Soma Saga touring bike, in my case.

chaadster

I’m not experiencing it still, because I gave up on running the extralight casing tubeless, but the issue was constant weeping of the recommended SealSmart sealant through the sidewalls.

I tried OrangeSeal, too, even though I hate that stuff for the chunky mess it makes inside the tire, but without success.

Herse replaced the tires for me, but given that my difficulties seemed to be shared by many other riders trying to run ELs tubeless, I set up the replacements with Schwalbe Aerothan tubes, which are super.

I still have the first set of Bon Jons ELs hanging on the wall in the garage, thinking that if I ever get around to spending an afternoon picking off the OrangeSeal boogers, I’ll run them TPU tubed.

walnutz

As others have mentioned, you’ll be good with standard casing. Don’t even dare with extralights.

Polaris OBark

Jan is rather lukewarm on tubeless, and doesn't recommend it for anything narrower than 35mm. After years of using Barlows EL with tubes, I decided to try tubeless about 6 months ago, with a fresh set of tires. Setting up was surprisingly easy, and I used their Panaracer recommended sealant. As far as I know, I haven't had any punctures yet. I had very few running tubes. The ride quality improved slightly, as did my speed climbing steep hills. But these were very marginal gains. My one irritation with tubeless in general is it seems to be high routine maintenance. I guess you are supposed to top off the sealant every month or so, but I typically wait until one of the tires starts to lose air more rapidly than the other, and then I top both off. I switched to Orange Seal endurance because we ran out of Panaracer and had it in the garage. It seems to require less frequent top-offs, and moves through the syringe easier.

I also set up my Endurance Plus Antelope Hills tubeless, and these seem to hold their pressure better than the Barlow EL. My wife has Hurricane Ridge Endurance Plus on her ebike, and those also seem to hold air better. The one major irritation (which I don't think has anything to do with the tires, but rather the cheap Canondale rims), is that the rear tire comes unseated if the air pressure gets too low. Thankfully it hold air pretty well, but it has happened twice in the garage and I had to re-seat it with a canister. I blame the rim for that one.

For her, changing a flat in the middle of nowhere, out of cell service, on a commute with a heavy e-bike is something we are trying to avoid. For the others, there really isn't a compelling need for tubeless.

I'm not really a tubeless advocate. The only major advantage for me is it allows me to run Peaty's valve stems in a color that matches my hubs.

Oh, I've also got Juniper Ridge and Pumpkin Ridge (back and front) 650b EL tires set up with Panaracer sealant on my gravel wheel-set for about a year now with no issues at all.

Finally, we had Fleecer Ridge Endurance Plus set up for awhile with Orange Seal on my kid's XC bike. He didn't like them, so took them off. No real issues outside or inside. The old Orange Seal sealant was more of a thin web and a thick puddle that dried up and was easily pealed out.

Polaris OBark

In my case, it is Antelope Hill Endurance Plus, and for that, tubeless worked without any issue.

Wildwood

my inquiry was serious beyond subtraction data. A legit question, I thought.
does a 10% tire size increase lead to a 10% psi reduction, or a 10% increase in load carrying capacity? Or make bumps 10% more damped?

but for a quirky reparté -
let me pick - a 10% decrease in the rolling resistance () and lower psi, so the rider can feel better, generate more power and finish ahead of fellow cyclists.

Polaris OBark

According to Jan/Bicycle Quarterly, rolling resistance is approximately independent of tire width. The primary reason to go for wider tires is comfort. A secondary reason is handling properties in rough off-road terrain.

tyrion

Sorry I was a little snarky.

First of all, I'm not performance oriented, I'm more after that feel of just gliding over the road. Like many of us, I've been through the tire size progression 28mm to 32mm to 38mm etc. and the bigger the tires get the better it gets for me. I have literally never thought "gee, I wish I had narrower tires".

So I just got to try 55mm road tires. Might not be rational (especially at those prices), but I gotta try them.

Polaris OBark

I did that for exactly the same reasons.

tangerineowl

An alternative which should be a bit cheaper is the Continental SpeedKing Racesport 2.2.
I find that holds air/sealant a bit better than a black EL ReneHerse.

SpeedKing has the supple and fast-rolling ride feel. About 460gm in 29x.

Wildwood

I'm not really about performance and/or training for any goal either.
I am a roadie, with hard packed gravel on occasion.
What I am about is riding my miles efficiently, as I get older. Still comfortable (truly) in the drops.
The weight of a Schwalbe 30mm, all-road tubular over a supple Veloflex 25 changes the bike's feel. Dramatically. Especially the hill climbing home, on nearly every ride.

I gave in to 32s - for a road tandem.


edit: But I am planning on 650b and lightweight 42mm that I think may fit.

No sense being a curmudgeon, without having the personal experience to know 1st hand.

tyrion

Ordered the endurance plus version. $209 for a pair of bicycle tires. Wow. But I did it in honor of Queen Elizabeth because I know how much she loved big supple bicycle tires.

tyrion

If you ride slowly and avoid hills, big fat tires are not inefficient.

Wildwood

That's just not an option, avoiding the hills. I live on the ridgeline 400' above the valley, somewhere above the small red barn. Cascade foothills. Slow = my middle name, when not riding with traffic on a narrow or non-existent shoulder.
Reality is often not the ideal. But we persevere. On $60 tubular tires,....oh. the sacrifices of life pedaling the pavement.
I sense a different Reality for each of us.

Polaris OBark

It is fine on the hills.

The only penalty is the increased weight, which is a good reason to run them tubeless.