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Near Death Experience Today

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Near Death Experience Today

Old 09-18-22, 02:54 PM
  #51  
Koyote
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Originally Posted by rsbob View Post
I can’t provide any evidence you exist other than virtually but I have had enough bad s intentionally occur to me over the last 40+ years (including being shot at, air horn blared into my ear, being strafed by the same car 4 times as he kept turning around and coming back at me, a truck pulling off in front of me and wait until I approached and then spin their wheels to throw gravel at me, beer cars thrown, cherry bombs, intentional close passes when they had two full lanes, etc) the odds are extremely good it was intentional. If it was a late model vehicle, yeah I would tend to agree with you about the mobile phone, but the majority of these events occurred by beater vehicles. This was a beater too. Can I prove it? No. Can you prove it wasn’t? No. Looks like a stand off. I don’t think you really exist, but I do think you exist in a highly contrary universe.
Wow, that's a pretty hostile post. You seem very invested in believing that the side-swiping was deliberate, even though I can't imagine how or why it matters. And it's almost as if you didn't see the part where I expressed my relief that you are your friend weren't hurt. Here:

Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
I don't know why someone would intentionally swerve towards you, but distracted drivers (checking cell phones, e.g.) often drift onto the shoulder or across the center line -- which seems a more plausible explanation. Either way, the end result was the same. I'm glad you and your friend are alright.
By the way: I have never thought of myself as a contrarian, but I do certainly expect that assertions be supported by evidence. There is a difference.
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Old 09-18-22, 03:01 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by holytrousers View Post
You would have to prove all these incidents were related.
Bad Karma ?
First day of probability theory in my Sophomore year stats class: professor says, "Suppose I toss a coin nine times, and it comes up heads each time. What are the odds it comes up heads on the tenth toss?"

Answers were all over the place. Some people thought the probability of the coin coming up heads the tenth time was very low, others thought very high. Of course, the correct answer is that the probability was .5, or one in two. Each coin toss is a random event, as is each encounter with angry and aggressive motorists -- assuming the rider is not triggering the anger through some out-of-the-ordinary actions.
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Old 09-18-22, 03:43 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
Wow, that's a pretty hostile post. You seem very invested in believing that the side-swiping was deliberate, even though I can't imagine how or why it matters. And it's almost as if you didn't see the part where I expressed my relief that you are your friend weren't hurt. Here:



By the way: I have never thought of myself as a contrarian, but I do certainly expect that assertions be supported by evidence. There is a difference.

You seriously can't understand the difference between a felonious criminal threat with a deadly weapon or even attempted murder and someone negligently operating the vehicle? Seriously?

You made a statement absolutely without evidence that one explanation was more plausible than the other. You admonished me when I questioned that for having a dark view of humanity. Hate to break it to you, but your sunny disposition is not proper evidence for the probalistic statement you're making here.

BTW, even if there are considerably more negligent drivers than malevolent ones, that doesn't imply that this particular type of incident is more likely to be caused by negligence than malevolence. Malevolent drivers might cross yellow lines at a rate wildly disproportionate to their numbers.

You'd have been fine if you had just stated we'll likely never know, but you actually substituted your completely unsupportable probability assessment for someone who actually witnessed the behavior. Hate to break it to you, but you bought yourself a burden of proof when you made that claim
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Old 09-18-22, 03:52 PM
  #54  
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RSBob, I am curious if you have seen your headlight from the distance the driver was at when he began crossing the line. I have encountered some lights that were so bright that I had to start looking away when they were a couple hundred yards away.
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Old 09-18-22, 04:06 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
You seriously can't understand the difference between a felonious criminal threat with a deadly weapon or even attempted murder and someone negligently operating the vehicle? Seriously?
Umm, what? Show me anything I wrote that demonstrates an inability to differentiate between the concepts of "felonious criminal threat" and negligence. You're really coming out of left field here.

Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
You admonished me when I questioned that for having a dark view of humanity. Hate to break it to you, but your sunny disposition is not proper evidence for the probalistic statement you're making here.
That remark seems to have hit a nerve; I was not intending to hurt your feelings. That you took it as admonishment is weird.

Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
You'd have been fine if you had just stated we'll likely never know, but you actually substituted your completely unsupportable probability assessment for someone who actually witnessed the behavior. Hate to break it to you, but you bought yourself a burden of proof when you made that claim
If I had amended the clause "in my opinion" to a statement that was clearly an opinion, would that have helped you?
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Old 09-18-22, 04:30 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
You seriously can't understand the difference between a felonious criminal threat with a deadly weapon or even attempted murder and someone negligently operating the vehicle? Seriously?

You made a statement absolutely without evidence that one explanation was more plausible than the other. You admonished me when I questioned that for having a dark view of humanity. Hate to break it to you, but your sunny disposition is not proper evidence for the probalistic statement you're making here.

BTW, even if there are considerably more negligent drivers than malevolent ones, that doesn't imply that this particular type of incident is more likely to be caused by negligence than malevolence. Malevolent drivers might cross yellow lines at a rate wildly disproportionate to their numbers.

You'd have been fine if you had just stated we'll likely never know, but you actually substituted your completely unsupportable probability assessment for someone who actually witnessed the behavior. Hate to break it to you, but you bought yourself a burden of proof when you made that claim
Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
Umm, what? Show me anything I wrote that demonstrates an inability to differentiate between the concepts of "felonious criminal threat" and negligence. You're really coming out of left field here.



That remark seems to have hit a nerve; I was not intending to hurt your feelings. That you took it as admonishment is weird.



If I had amended the clause "in my opinion" to a statement that was clearly an opinion, would that have helped you?

No, I'm not coming out of left field, here's what you said: "You seem very invested in believing that the side-swiping was deliberate, even though I can't imagine how or why it matters.". If it's deliberate, he's the victim of a crime, this shouldn't need to be spelled out.

You're not applying the same standards to yourself as you are to rsbob. You implied that malevolence was not a very plausible explanation, and sorry, but I generally don't expect you to say something as transparently silly as that, then to double down by demanding" evidence " to disprove your armchair nonsense. If it's sufficient for you to state that the comparative probabilities are just your opinion, then why do you think it's reasonable to demand evidence to disprove it?
Sorry, but I just can't imagine why you wouldn't understand whyrsbob would be pissed when you start claiming a superior knowledge of the cause of the incident he actually experienced.
And yeah, "you're free to blah, blah but I don't" is an implied admonition. I just identified it as a matter of fact. I'm not mad about it, but it was just a really good example of the specious reasoning you've been engaging in.
You're better than this "I guess I hit a nerve" crap. Leave that game to trolls.
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Old 09-18-22, 04:33 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
No, I'm not coming out of left field, here's what you said: "You seem very invested in believing that the side-swiping was deliberate, even though I can't imagine how or why it matters.". If it's deliberate, he's the victim of a crime, this shouldn't need to be spelled out.

You're not applying the same standards to yourself as you are to rsbob. You implied that malevolence was not a very plausible explanation, and sorry, but I generally don't expect you to say something as transparently silly as that, then to double down by demanding" evidence " to disprove your armchair nonsense. If it's sufficient for you to state that the comparative probabilities are just your opinion, then why do you think it's reasonable to demand evidence to disprove it?
Sorry, but I just can't imagine why you wouldn't understand whyrsbob would be pissed when you start claiming a superior knowledge of the cause of the incident he actually experienced.
And yeah, "you're free to blah, blah but I don't" is an implied admonition. I just identified it as a matter of fact. I'm not mad about it, but it was just a really good example of the specious reasoning you've been engaging in.
You're better than this "I guess I hit a nerve" crap. Leave that game to trolls.
I’ve been reading your posts long enough to know that there’s no point in responding any further… So, you have a great night!
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Old 09-18-22, 04:45 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
RSBob, I am curious if you have seen your headlight from the distance the driver was at when he began crossing the line. I have encountered some lights that were so bright that I had to start looking away when they were a couple hundred yards away.
I would find it hard to believe that a bright bicycle light would cause a driver to swerve in that direction and risk a head-on collision. If that were a real possibility, the high beams on automobiles, pickup trucks and transport trailers which have two lights at 1200 lumens each would have been banned long ago.
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Old 09-18-22, 04:49 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
First day of probability theory in my Sophomore year stats class: professor says, "Suppose I toss a coin nine times, and it comes up heads each time. What are the odds it comes up heads on the tenth toss?"

Answers were all over the place. Some people thought the probability of the coin coming up heads the tenth time was very low, others thought very high. Of course, the correct answer is that the probability was .5, or one in two. Each coin toss is a random event, as is each encounter with angry and aggressive motorists -- assuming the rider is not triggering the anger through some out-of-the-ordinary actions.
Good point. That illustrates the incompatibility of our every-day heuristic approach to figure out how reality works with how reality really is.
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Old 09-18-22, 04:56 PM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
RSBob, I am curious if you have seen your headlight from the distance the driver was at when he began crossing the line. I have encountered some lights that were so bright that I had to start looking away when they were a couple hundred yards away.
If you look closely at the picture, there is no line to cross on that road.
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Old 09-18-22, 05:00 PM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by Daniel4 View Post
I have used my barely adequate camera to post pictures here on Bike Forums. I have learned basic editting skills to save sections of videos which I have used to study a mistake I had made almost running into a pedestrian I couldn't see in the sun. And then for videos that just aren't adequate to provide to the police, I can one day compile and upload to youtube.
I have a GoPro4 (color?) from back in the day and reviewed my footage when I used it regularly. It was never clear enough to read plates on most cars. Every adjustment I made had tradeoffs. As the battery aged, it would only last 30 mins in a full charge. It was pointless to save the footage when American plates are too busy.l anyway. (Why the artwork and color schemes? Just print bold letters and numbers in black on a white background, please.)

I am glad it worked for you. I just wanted to mention that for a camming newbie, it is not as easy as it may seem.

However, I *have* seen some drivers snap to attention at intersections upon seeing me with a camera. Through the windshield, I can see their gaze suddenly focus on my helmet, then they snap up to sit upright and put both hands on the wheel. I want that to happen more than I want to "catch" someone.
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Old 09-18-22, 05:07 PM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by Daniel4 View Post
I would find it hard to believe that a bright bicycle light would cause a driver to swerve in that direction and risk a head-on collision. If that were a real possibility, the high beams on automobiles, pickup trucks and transport trailers which have two lights at 1200 lumens each would have been banned long ago.
Focus/concentration and aim play a major role. I have a 400 lumen light that you would have to look away from in broad daylight if it was aiming toward you.
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Old 09-18-22, 05:48 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
A lot of drivers don't like bicycles with bright flashing front lights and find them very annoying and distracting.
Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
of the thousands of drivers you have interviewed, which number--precisely--told you this?
wolfboy has been on my ignore list since..like..forever, that said..

With due respect, I don't think he's too far off the mark. I've been road-riding for over 40 years, and I find bright-white flashing front lights from cyclists on the other side of the road rather annoying and distracting. Actually they're really annoying. Modern lights can get REALLY bright..painfully so. They have an "in your face" quality to them that some undoubtedly trigger some folks. I don't get the purpose of them. Rear flasher..sure, but front flashing only signals drivers in the opposite lane that typically won't be driving in the left lane(their point of view) against traffic. Yes, they can warn oncoming drivers if you're turning left in front of them, however, if the light helps in that situation, you shouldn't be turning left anyway. Same for a car turning left in front of you. If you assume they see you(as you have a flashing light) without actually making eye-to-eye contact, then you're sort of asking to get whacked, at which point you having the right away & a light doesn't matter much, in the short run.

I've never been hit by a car(about 44 years of riding, not including my childhood). I've had a couple close calls from drivers behind me. I use a helmet mirror to keep an eye on them.
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Old 09-18-22, 06:48 PM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by fishboat View Post
wolfboy has been on my ignore list since..like..forever, that said..

With due respect, I don't think he's too far off the mark. I've been road-riding for over 40 years, and I find bright-white flashing front lights from cyclists on the other side of the road rather annoying and distracting. Actually they're really annoying. Modern lights can get REALLY bright..painfully so. They have an "in your face" quality to them that some undoubtedly trigger some folks. I don't get the purpose of them. Rear flasher..sure, but front flashing only signals drivers in the opposite lane that typically won't be driving in the left lane(their point of view) against traffic. Yes, they can warn oncoming drivers if you're turning left in front of them, however, if the light helps in that situation, you shouldn't be turning left anyway. Same for a car turning left in front of you. If you assume they see you(as you have a flashing light) without actually making eye-to-eye contact, then you're sort of asking to get whacked, at which point you having the right away & a light doesn't matter much, in the short run.

I've never been hit by a car(about 44 years of riding, not including my childhood). I've had a couple close calls from drivers behind me. I use a helmet mirror to keep an eye on them.
The whole point of the flash/strobe/flare is to command attention from what would otherwise be in a drivers peripheral vision & not yet be worthy of consideration from the drivers perspective...A classic example is driver fixing to approach an arterial from a business or apartment complex, etc... The driver really isn't in a position to make an informed decision yet about how far or whether to enter the right of way yet. The point is to command an awareness before they get too far. They can then decide to act accordingly.

The strobe is an evolutionary survival response to drivers disregard when the law states that they must stop before entering a thoroughfare. The sidewalk is a thorough fare. The bike lane is a thoroughfare. That's 2 complete stops & 2 complete verifications that the intended travel path is free & clear for safe travel before approaching the street to which they intend to use. To which they must stop and verify a 3rd time before deciding to enter the "traffic" flow.

I don't mean to be pedantic, but I don't know any drivers that do this properly. And if I'm being completely honest, it's probably cultural to disregard the safety of others, the law of any kind & shun any/all responsibility while behind the wheel at this this point. Nevertheless my point remains: The strobe is to command a second look & awareness from complacent drivers who are not yet in a position to make an informed decision about safe operation of their vehicles.

Last edited by base2; 09-18-22 at 06:57 PM.
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Old 09-18-22, 06:49 PM
  #65  
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Driver may have been drunk. When drunk, a driver will tend to aim toward the light. Unconsciously thinking that is the right path forward, not realizing they are aiming at YOU.

I ride with my mental radar on all the time, and that's not enough. Bright random blinking front and rear lights are a must, as is my Take-A-Look rear view mirror. But my main defense strategy is, "God is my copilot". I pray before every ride.
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Old 09-18-22, 07:23 PM
  #66  
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I have no idea what happened to Rsob, beyond what he has posted .... like the rest of us. All me have is displayed our prejudices.

I have experienced the coal-rolling, the close calls, being forced off the road, had things thrown at me .... the verbal abuse is too petty to mention.

As @livedarklions ' example explains ... past occurrences don't affect the probability of future actions. Even if every one of us had the same experience as Rsob and were told after by the perpetrators that their actions were deliberate .... until the people who threatened Rsob spoke up we would never know ..... The fact that so many of us have experienced similar things are not dispositive ....

I know what I assume .... but none of us know ....
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Old 09-18-22, 09:57 PM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
One of the most annoying things I've encountered was at Crater Lake. I was descending at about 40 MPH down the middle of my lane. Fairly rough paved roads and a drop off to my right.

And cars coming uphill decided they had to pass other cyclists taking up half of my lane (including the space where I was riding). I'd wave my arms to make sure they saw me, but that didn't matter to the drivers.

It happened several times on that trip.
there’s a number of roads around here with heavy cyclist traffic uphill - typically with a decent shoulder - and equal traffic downhill, but no shoulder. the most dangerous situation regularly created for the descenders is a vehicle way across the line on the uphill side, which of course they should never do when someone is coming down. unfortunately it’s hard to see around curves, and sometimes cyclists on the uphill ride two abreast, forcing the passing cars much further out. even when taking the lane at speed I descend pretty close to the edge because of this.
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Old 09-18-22, 10:16 PM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by delbiker1 View Post
It seems to just keep getting worse on the roads. Not just for cyclists. I have had many incidents in the last 2 years. One last week with a driver cutting short on his left turn, west to south, and looked like he was texting. He wound up in the turn lane I was in, going north to turn west, heading straight for me. Just as I started to swerve to my right, his head came up and he saw me, then swerved sharply to his right, missing me by maybe 2 feet. Not sure I could have gotten out of danger if he had not seen me in that last moment, or if I had not been paying attention. It shook me up a bit.
Wow.Glad you lucked out.
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Old 09-18-22, 10:28 PM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by holytrousers View Post
You would have to prove all these incidents were related.
Bad Karma ?
Not a devotee of the Karma thing but if it works for you. My take is if you ride enough miles in a lifetime you will see it all, or just about all. I estimate about 250,000 miles to date averaging over 5000 per year. That’s a lot of tires and drivetrains. Yeesh.

And they were all related because they are all done by evil, small minded morons. Hope that wasn’t too harsh and didn’t offend anyone here that might relate to those terms.
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Old 09-18-22, 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted by mschwett View Post
there’s a number of roads around here with heavy cyclist traffic uphill - typically with a decent shoulder - and equal traffic downhill, but no shoulder. the most dangerous situation regularly created for the descenders is a vehicle way across the line on the uphill side, which of course they should never do when someone is coming down. unfortunately it’s hard to see around curves, and sometimes cyclists on the uphill ride two abreast, forcing the passing cars much further out. even when taking the lane at speed I descend pretty close to the edge because of this.
There is one 15% two lane descent near me with lots of blind curves posted at 25 to 15 MPH with zero shoulder. I don’t climb up it but take the lane with the cars on the way down because I can easily go their speed. That’s with the exception of the very top which is not that steep and I am going a bit over 20 with a ridiculous posted speed of 35. One time I was in the 20 MPH quickly picking up speed, so moving into the lane as a 25 curve was about 1/10 of a mile away when a Dodge Charger decided it was time to pass. They came close to me as they accelerated past and then had to slam on the brakes for the 25 MPH curve just ahead. But they got around me and didn’t lose 15 seconds of their life waiting for me to get up to speed. If they had overshot the corner it would have been a 200’ trip to the valley floor.
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Old 09-18-22, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
I have no idea what happened to Rsob, beyond what he has posted .... like the rest of us. All me have is displayed our prejudices.

I have experienced the coal-rolling, the close calls, being forced off the road, had things thrown at me .... the verbal abuse is too petty to mention.

As @livedarklions ' example explains ... past occurrences don't affect the probability of future actions. Even if every one of us had the same experience as Rsob and were told after by the perpetrators that their actions were deliberate .... until the people who threatened Rsob spoke up we would never know ..... The fact that so many of us have experienced similar things are not dispositive ....

I know what I assume .... but none of us know ....
during each of those events the planets were in full retrograde and that made the people throw stuff, yell, shoot and otherwise endanger my life. That’s the only thing I can prove or not.

Oh then there was the time my wife and I were riding our tandem out by some corn fields and a pickup pulls along side and throws a vanilla milkshake on us. We were just minding our own business riding near the shoulder with zero traffic. It was quite delicious but not my preferred way to taste it. That had to be a retrograde, I mean reprobate, moment too.
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Old 09-18-22, 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted by base2 View Post
The whole point of the flash/strobe/flare is to command attention from what would otherwise be in a drivers peripheral vision & not yet be worthy of consideration from the drivers perspective...A classic example is driver fixing to approach an arterial from a business or apartment complex, etc... The driver really isn't in a position to make an informed decision yet about how far or whether to enter the right of way yet. The point is to command an awareness before they get too far. They can then decide to act accordingly.

The strobe is an evolutionary survival response to drivers disregard when the law states that they must stop before entering a thoroughfare. The sidewalk is a thorough fare. The bike lane is a thoroughfare. That's 2 complete stops & 2 complete verifications that the intended travel path is free & clear for safe travel before approaching the street to which they intend to use. To which they must stop and verify a 3rd time before deciding to enter the "traffic" flow.

I don't mean to be pedantic, but I don't know any drivers that do this properly. And if I'm being completely honest, it's probably cultural to disregard the safety of others, the law of any kind & shun any/all responsibility while behind the wheel at this this point. Nevertheless my point remains: The strobe is to command a second look & awareness from complacent drivers who are not yet in a position to make an informed decision about safe operation of their vehicles.
I do a lot of 30-40 MPH descents in wooded areas with lots of shadows, especially this time of year and into winter. I use the flasher to be seen primarily by people pulling out of their driveways or the side roads. My lite is bright but it is nothing compared to my halogen Cygolite, with low, high, and flashing light. That light was super bright and it sure worked for commuting on MUPs in the middle of no where in the dark. Would use my hand to shield oncoming cyclists from it. I would guess in a straight line it was visible oncoming for 3 miles. I always take care to aim all front lights from blinding oncoming vehicles.
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Old 09-18-22, 11:18 PM
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And the picture above of the road through the corn fields was not the road in question. The road where the incident happened is through dense forest with 5-10% grades with lots of curves AND a center line. Great fun to to down - not so much going up and I go up it so much I have been hanging onto a Local Legend claim on it.
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Old 09-19-22, 05:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
First day of probability theory in my Sophomore year stats class: professor says, "Suppose I toss a coin nine times, and it comes up heads each time. What are the odds it comes up heads on the tenth toss?"

Answers were all over the place. Some people thought the probability of the coin coming up heads the tenth time was very low, others thought very high. Of course, the correct answer is that the probability was .5, or one in two. Each coin toss is a random event, as is each encounter with angry and aggressive motorists -- assuming the rider is not triggering the anger through some out-of-the-ordinary actions.

The right response to that is "let me see the coin.". A direct observation that it was not a two-headed coin is essential to estimating the probability. That's actually as basic a methodological point as is independence.
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Old 09-19-22, 07:38 AM
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So much drama..wow.
One sided story. All anyone can say is, Glad there were no injuries.
I've had close calls for sure. Were they intentional? Who knows. I'm not in their brain.
Be happy you're OK and move on. That's my theory on life and riding.
Been riding for 50 yrs. Been hit once on a bike. Intentional? No. Bad driving? Yes.
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