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Spoke Safety = Bike Safety?

Old 11-02-22, 10:07 AM
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rsbob 
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Spoke Safety = Bike Safety?

Interesting tech designed to alert cars to a bike’s location and vice versa. It obviously has a long way to go along with costs for all concerned but thought the premise was good. www.spokesafety.com


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Old 11-02-22, 10:19 AM
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Probably it or something like it's concept will be the thing for the future. However I'll predict that such systems will be blasted by all the nay-sayers. Look how long it took to get the majority of us wearing helmets.

We put things in aircraft that do a similar concept. TCAS. It was berated by many until it was mandated for the airlines and enough pilots actually got some experience with it.
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Old 11-02-22, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
I'll predict that such systems will be blasted by all the nay-sayers. Look how long it took to get the majority of us wearing helmets.
That analogy is flawed. Regardless, it looks like a great technology to have in cars.
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Old 11-02-22, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Rolla View Post
Regardless, it looks like a great technology to have in cars.
I agree, but it also requires some technology on the bicycle too.

Or did I read the site's info about it wrong?
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Old 11-02-22, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
I agree, but it also requires some technology on the bicycle too.

Or did I read the site's info about it wrong?
I dunno -- the site isn't especially clear. But adding digital/sellphone tech to a bike is where the pushback will likely come from, at least from those who don't already use Garmin/Strava/whatever.
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Old 11-03-22, 10:38 AM
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I bet in 20 years or less, when the non-tech inclined here go to the great bicycle in the sky, the tech savy will adopt this just like Varia radar/camera for additional safety. The auto-makers will need to step up as part of their on-board safety packages, but don’t see many consumers paying extra for it.

Overall, I think it is a cool idea.
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Old 11-03-22, 11:10 AM
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It's a "boil the ocean" solution. It wouldn't be very useful unless it was very wide-spread.

Things like the Varia (or helmets) don't require a complete network to be useful (to the person using the item).
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Old 11-03-22, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
We put things in aircraft that do a similar concept. TCAS. It was berated by many until it was mandated for the airlines and enough pilots actually got some experience with it.
Was it "berated by many"?

TCAS is required for planes with 10+ passengers. Planes are already part of a coordinated system. So, adding TCAS didn't change much. (Planes are also much more expensive.)

What TCAS is reporting is also much simpler. The occasions where it's necessary are relatively rare and the "participants" (the number of things needed to be tracked) are few.

Last edited by njkayaker; 11-03-22 at 12:55 PM.
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Old 11-03-22, 12:49 PM
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Let's maybe cool it on the "you have to be a technophobe to be skeptical." Like it or not, most new technologies or at least the first iteration of them fail.

Looking at their website, there's a bunch of red flags on this just off the top of my head. This is basically "an internet of things" approach to road safety, where all sorts of inputs will be interacting with each other constantly. This isn't just a TCAS device, it's communicating with other vehicles, traffic lights, other road infrastructure, GPS and traffic reports, The displays on the phone and on the steering wheels are going to be displaying information about so many things As a cyclist, I'm not sure I'm crazy about a screen on the steering wheel constantly drawing drivers' eyes away from looking ahead of themselves. Also, I think there's going to have to be a lot of work done on filtering the information that's going to pop up on the phone screen in a crowded urban environment. Seriously, how much information do you expect to be able to monitor AND watch for potholes?


And we really can't just analogize TCAS from airplanes in the relatively wide-open skies to crowded urban streets. Pretty much every encounter in a crowded street is going to look like a close call.
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Old 11-03-22, 04:03 PM
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Not interested....I don't need an aircraft technology on a bicycle.
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Old 11-03-22, 11:10 PM
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I don't want to be "connected" and have my bike try to talk to all the other vehicles around me, this is just part of the whole digital society lack of privacy new world order thing. Its the big gravel arm trying to sell your data
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Old 11-04-22, 12:10 AM
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz View Post
I don't want to be "connected" and have my bike try to talk to all the other vehicles around me, this is just part of the whole digital society lack of privacy new world order thing. Its the big gravel arm trying to sell your data
Shouldn’t this be in the “If cars could talk…” thread.

John
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Old 11-04-22, 05:03 AM
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Given the way both cars and bicycles are getting smarter at monitoring their own surroundings (e.g. Tesla AP already recognises and tracks bicycles and Garmin Varia alerts riders of approaching cars) is there any added value in actually connecting the vehicles at all? So my first thought is that this could be a redundant product.
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Old 11-04-22, 05:18 AM
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
not interested....i don't need an aircraft technology on a bicycle.
fify
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Old 11-04-22, 05:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
Probably it or something like it's concept will be the thing for the future.
Far into the future if at all I would think. But I'm old enough I remember being told as a kid that we would have flying cars by now so I'm using that as my yard stick. By the way, I'm old enough to remember yard sticks.
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Old 11-04-22, 05:53 AM
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Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
fify
I didn't say that all technology was bad...I prefer to keep my bikes and cycling hobby simple and there is a limit how much technology I am willing to accept. A bicycle isn't a space shuttle.
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Old 11-04-22, 06:05 AM
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
I didn't say that all technology was bad...I prefer to keep my bikes and cycling hobby simple and there is a limit how much technology I am willing to accept. A bicycle isn't a space shuttle.
Any tech that helps to make me more "visible" to cars while cycling is fine by me. I can't see how it would detract from my biking experience in any way, while potentially reducing the risk of some car smashing into me.
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Old 11-04-22, 06:11 AM
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It's well known that warnings are just ignored by pilots much of the time. These things warn drivers, who are much less capable and less interested in safety. I imagine youtube will be full of videos on how to disable these warnings.

Anyone that has been frustrated by how hard it is just to have bluetooth audio work reliably is going to be skeptical of such an elaborate system. Is it going to warn in time? Put some damn lidars in the cars. Cars need to be less dangerous and inconveniencing drivers may be a fundamental part of that.
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Old 11-04-22, 06:24 AM
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(I original posted this in 2017)
With or without self-driving cars, vehicle-to-vehicle communications will become required on all vehicles, bicycles and pedestrians under the ruse of public safety. Preying on people's fears and fascinations, the media with political backing will over-publicize horrific vehicular and pedestrian collisions and carnage in order to sway public opinion in favor of vehicle-to-vehicle communications. This will at first be a separate transponder unit, but will quickly be integrated into personal tracking and surveillance units, a.k.a smartphones. This data will then be used measure and collect road-use taxes which will be renamed "infrastructure investment shares". As concerns over accuracy and health come to the fore, the strength of the radio signals will be reduced, necessitating larger, more optimally shaped antennas spurring the return to separate units which eventually develop into mandatory helmets for cyclists, pedestrians and passenger car occupants. Certain, popular lightweight materials for clothing and vehicle construction will also be outlawed due to radio-wave reflection and interference. Meanwhile, as a result of the "collision and carnage" campaign "human error" is percieved as the weak link in the system and the push for self-driving vehicles revives and this time succeeds. Adapting existing e-bike technology and electric shifting is a cake-walk, and thanks to the "Bicycle Stability Act" traditional two-wheeled bicycles are phased out in favor of tricycles and quadra-cycles. True, two-wheeled bicycles will be required to employ either a segway-like balance system, or a large, heavy-mass, spinning gyroscopic stabilization unit. The result will be an expensive, complex, heavy, heavily taxed, autonomous, self-driving personal recreational and mobility unit the average bicyclist will neither recognize, enjoy, nor be able to afford. And contemporary parts or standarizations will no longer be part of that equation.
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Old 11-04-22, 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
It's well known that warnings are just ignored by pilots much of the time. These things warn drivers, who are much less capable and less interested in safety. I imagine youtube will be full of videos on how to disable these warnings.

Anyone that has been frustrated by how hard it is just to have bluetooth audio work reliably is going to be skeptical of such an elaborate system. Is it going to warn in time? Put some damn lidars in the cars. Cars need to be less dangerous and inconveniencing drivers may be a fundamental part of that.
Car tech is already incrementally heading that way, hence why I think this particular system is likely to be redundant. My car is already aware of bicycles, pedestrians and other vehicles. My bike is also aware of approaching cars. None of the tech is detrimental to either my driving or biking experience.
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Old 11-04-22, 07:17 AM
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I prefer not to be tracked, period. So, I would not be a user of such a device on that principle alone. Functionally, I rarely see cars on my routes. My Varia and Mirror are more than sufficient for my use.
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Old 11-04-22, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
It's well known that warnings are just ignored by pilots much of the time.
That might need some support or qualification. One of the things TCAS did is give pilots useful information to acquire sight of other aircraft visually. Whether it's entirely legitimate by regulation and procedure I'd suspect many of the ignore instances you are referring to are for time when the other aircraft was in visual sight by the crew.
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Old 11-04-22, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by BobbyG View Post
(I original posted this in 2017)
With or without self-driving cars, vehicle-to-vehicle communications will become required on all vehicles, bicycles and pedestrians under the ruse of public safety. Preying on people's fears and fascinations, the media with political backing will over-publicize horrific vehicular and pedestrian collisions and carnage in order to sway public opinion in favor of vehicle-to-vehicle communications. This will at first be a separate transponder unit, but will quickly be integrated into personal tracking and surveillance units, a.k.a smartphones. This data will then be used measure and collect road-use taxes which will be renamed "infrastructure investment shares". As concerns over accuracy and health come to the fore, the strength of the radio signals will be reduced, necessitating larger, more optimally shaped antennas spurring the return to separate units which eventually develop into mandatory helmets for cyclists, pedestrians and passenger car occupants. Certain, popular lightweight materials for clothing and vehicle construction will also be outlawed due to radio-wave reflection and interference. Meanwhile, as a result of the "collision and carnage" campaign "human error" is percieved as the weak link in the system and the push for self-driving vehicles revives and this time succeeds. Adapting existing e-bike technology and electric shifting is a cake-walk, and thanks to the "Bicycle Stability Act" traditional two-wheeled bicycles are phased out in favor of tricycles and quadra-cycles. True, two-wheeled bicycles will be required to employ either a segway-like balance system, or a large, heavy-mass, spinning gyroscopic stabilization unit. The result will be an expensive, complex, heavy, heavily taxed, autonomous, self-driving personal recreational and mobility unit the average bicyclist will neither recognize, enjoy, nor be able to afford. And contemporary parts or standarizations will no longer be part of that equation.
Did this sound more plausible in 2017?
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Old 11-04-22, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
Did this sound more plausible in 2017?
I was only half serious.
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Old 11-04-22, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by BobbyG View Post
I was only half serious.
Okay. Hard to tell these days, lol.
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