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Accident Help Please

Old 11-03-22, 09:45 AM
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Ridgsta
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Accident Help Please

I had an [moderator edit….accident] The defendents insurers are trying to heavily discount the cost of my road bike, It's a Specialized Tarmac SL4 purchased in 2018 which Specialized replaced with a brand new 2019 frame in May19 due to a fault, I also have a carbon wheelset which was purchased just 3 months before the accident. Both bike and wheelset were pristine.

My argument is that without a costly scan/xray on the carbon frame we cannot be sure of the bike and wheels safety and either they undertake this, or fully compensate me for the bike.

My solicitor has been unable to locate any supporting case law in support of our claim for new for old.

Does anyone on the forums have any advice or point me to some case law that may be of help?

Last edited by StanSeven; 11-03-22 at 02:33 PM. Reason: Remove accident details
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Old 11-03-22, 10:06 AM
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Take it to a Specialized dealer and ask their opinion; they will tell you that they cannot guarantee the bike's safety. Ask them to put that opinion in writing and give it to your solicitor.
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Old 11-03-22, 10:08 AM
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Thanks, not sure about the quote though
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Old 11-03-22, 10:11 AM
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Solicitor tells us you're likely UK based and advice needs to reflect that.
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Old 11-03-22, 10:16 AM
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https://support.specialized.com/home...ed-replacement
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Old 11-03-22, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by dedhed View Post
Solicitor tells us you're likely UK based and advice needs to reflect that.
Yes, thanks
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Old 11-03-22, 11:09 AM
  #7  
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Originally Posted by Ridgsta View Post
I had an [moderator edit…accident] The defendents insurers are trying to heavily discount the cost of my road bike, It's a Specialized Tarmac SL4 purchased in 2018 which Specialized replaced with a brand new 2019 frame in May19 due to a fault, I also have a carbon wheelset which was purchased just 3 months before the accident. Both bike and wheelset were pristine.

My argument is that without a costly scan/xray on the carbon frame we cannot be sure of the bike and wheels safety and either they undertake this, or fully compensate me for the bike.

My solicitor has been unable to locate any supporting case law in support of our claim for new for old.

Does anyone on the forums have any advice or point me to some case law that may be of help?
Take the bike to a shop they should be able to give you a quote and all of those costs should be on the ticket. If they are a good shop they will charge for their services but that cost should pass on to to the über's insurance. We do insurance quotes all the time at the shop usually everything works out pretty well, they just need a professional to look at it. I would also talk with your local Specialized dealer (which you might already do above) and they can potentially help with crash replacement and get you some off a new frame (not that the insurance needs to be involved with that they shouldn't).

Last edited by StanSeven; 11-03-22 at 02:34 PM.
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Old 11-03-22, 11:34 AM
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Off the cuff: Unless you can demonstrate a loss you are not entitled to compensation for a loss. Sometimes, proving a loss costs you something.
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Old 11-03-22, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by veganbikes View Post
Take the bike to a shop they should be able to give you a quote and all of those costs should be on the ticket. If they are a good shop they will charge for their services but that cost should pass on to to the über's insurance. We do insurance quotes all the time at the shop usually everything works out pretty well, they just need a professional to look at it. I would also talk with your local Specialized dealer (which you might already do above) and they can potentially help with crash replacement and get you some off a new frame (not that the insurance needs to be involved with that they shouldn't).
Many thanks for the advice, probably something I should have done after the accident but my focus has been on my rehab until now👍
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Old 11-03-22, 02:36 PM
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Moderation note - don’t post details of any accidents online. All the information becomes widely available then which may impact your rights and possible liabilities. The original post was edited.
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Old 11-03-22, 04:18 PM
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I don't know how it works in the UK, but in the US you would only be entitled to the depreciated value of the item damaged. You would not get the full replacement cost of the damaged item. This would also hold true if the repair cost of an item exceeds the depreciated value - you would not receive the repair cost, but rather the depreciated value.
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Old 11-03-22, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by keithdunlop View Post
in the US you would only be entitled to the depreciated value of the item damaged.
Assuming in the US, how is depreciated value determined?
Is it simply a calculation, BBB, or could I start finding items similar to my loss and the selling price of those items in my area?

For example BicycleBlueBook (BBB) claims 2017 Cervelo R5 Red etap = $3,500-3,600 ....... same bike on Bay Area Craigslist right now $4,750
That is a +31% difference over BBB in my neck of the woods.

In summary, can you build a case against the depreciation value?

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Old 11-03-22, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Barry2 View Post
In summary, can you build a case against the depreciation value?
Not likely. Just because someone is willing to pay more for an item in a private party transaction doesn't mean the item is necessarily more valuable.
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Old 11-03-22, 05:27 PM
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Ok, so I understand that there is no visible damage on either the frame or wheels. Yet you want them all replaced.

Did you say why you think they have been damaged?

I am seeing that there are inspection services. Probably several of them if you hunt.

This place lists prices:
https://carbonbikedoctor.com/inspection-diagnostics/

$450 for frame + fork inspection.
$200 for handlebars inspection
$220 for EACH wheel inspection.

Ruckus Composites apparently has some similar tools, but don't seem to list prices independently from repairs.

https://www.compositesworld.com/arti...fiber-bicycles

Say you spend $700 on inspections that end up showing nothing. Who pays?

The insurance company may still decide that is a good investment versus a few thousand dollar bill you'll try to hit them with.
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Old 11-03-22, 05:35 PM
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Sorry about the misfortune. I know a little about property insurance claims and hope what I have to add to the others’ comments will be useful to you.

The principle you’re wrestling against is “indemnity”. The simple gist of it is that it is impossible to restore an individual completely to their position seconds before the loss occurred. Some things are simply unrestorable to the prior condition, and some are simply irreplaceable. So western-based legal systems allow the insurer to convert the loss to a number representing the “actual cash value” of the loss.

The actual cash value of your bicycle is what they appear to be offering you. In order to obtain a higher offer, you simply (or creatively) substantiate the value of your loss.

In this forum, we all know that personalization of a bicycle beyond the factory assembled unit has a cost. Replacing an older bicycle might also involve shipping charges, so you could include that in your claim. The value of items on your bike above and beyond stock can be claimed, but you will need to substantiate each and every item you are claiming.

Best,
Mike
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Old 11-03-22, 07:48 PM
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I should add that there is a concept of diminished value, which essentially is the loss of value of a vehicle because it has been in a collision, and because it was in a collision, a potential buyer knowing it was in a collision would only be willing to buy the vehicle at a discounted price to account for the intrinsic loss of value. The difference between the the two states of the vehicle being the diminished value.
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Old 11-03-22, 07:53 PM
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What ever the case or loss... I am wishing you a complete and full recovery recovery...
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Old 11-04-22, 08:28 AM
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I was involved in a slow speed motorcycle crash many years ago (U.S.). Due to parts replacement cost, the motorcycle was deemed a total loss. The insurance company offered a low amount for the value of the motorcycle. I found 3 completed auctions on Ebay for the same motorcycle and presented them to the insurance company as the "Market Value" for the bike. The insurance company averaged the 3 prices of the ads and offered that to me.

Hope this helps...
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Old 11-04-22, 09:02 AM
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Based on my experience with a motor vehicle accident, I think you are in for an uphill fight. I owned an older pickup truck with some expensive modifications. Insurance would only cover the value of a similar age truck without the modifications even though I had the receipts for the work and new parts. Good luck. You know that the job of insurance companies is to collect premiums and deny claims.
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Old 11-04-22, 10:22 AM
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Wouldn't your Solicitor be able to recover sufficiently on pain and suffering medical damage to offset the insurance company's cheapskate offer on the bike? Unfortunately, they depreciate it more than what current values are.
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