I took the line about not being able to repair carbon from the post from above mine. I just copied and pasted that statement from his comments, I know you can repair carbon.

In future, you can quote a post (as I did yours) in order to avoid confusion.

Repairing carbon frame is a complex process. It's a lot easier to repair a steel frame.

[QUOTE=SpedFast;22707329 I'm looking for the holy grail of bikes. y[/QUOTE]

The only way for you to find the "holy grail of bikes" is to go test ride a bunch of bikes with different frame types. Keep in mind when doing this that some bikes may have wider tires thus using lower psi which will make it appear as if it's smoother riding than another.

All I can tell you is my experience, yours could be different. I use to live in California, the roads there aren't near as bad as they are in NE Indiana where I live now, the freeze and thaw cycle just plays havoc on roads here making them a lot worse than California. I have several steel bikes, and they do ride good, but when got my Lynskey Peloton which I never test rode, but I did test ride several time another TI bike, the difference was not subtle, over harsh broken and pot hole roads the bike was smoother, obviously not like a suspension bike, but smoother than any other road frame material I have ever been on. Even on chip and seal roads, my steel bikes would leave my feet and legs buzzing for awhile, I don't get that at all with the TI bike, and the tire size are the same, and the geometry is close to the same. If you can afford a TI bike, ride one or two, then decide. TI, if made right, will last a lifetime and then some, they will even survive crashes better than a steel bike will, but a steel bike will survive crashes better than AL or CF frame will.

The TI bike I got to test ride was a friend's of mine, it was the least expensive TI bike on the market at the time, a Motobecane bought from Bikes Direct, and that cheapest TI bike had that same subtle smoothness about it that my Lynskey has. I almost bought the Motobecane from Bikes Direct, but when I went to order it, it was out of stock, and stayed out of stock for over a year and a half, in the meantime the Lynskey Peloton came up on a closeout sale so I got it instead.

Here is an example of what kind of force a TI tube can take vs other tube materials:
Here's an interesting test done, but TI is not included, but does reveal what the other materials abuse can take:

Yes carbon can be repaired and probably cheaper and more reliably than a tig welded 953 bike. Repairing tig welded steel frames is a real pain if possible at all.

Even when built from the wonder material of 953 a Specialized Aethos is almost 1/3 of the weight. That’s 3 bikes! Or build a carbon bike the same weight as your 953 and rest assured that bike will be more durable.

You mentioned 2,000 MPa for 953, modern carbon as used on a premium bike easily exceed 5,500 MPa

How about counting winners the past 30 years and what the dominant material would be? . It’s like claiming wood is the premium material for wheels because that’s what won all the chariot races!

I can take my index finger, and my thumb, and squeeze the top tube of any CF bike in the middle of the tube and get the tube to flex on a road bike, I can't do that with any other type of frame material, just CF, and that's why you have to be real careful to make sure you are using the correct torque specs or you could crush the CF, and crush it in such a way you don't even know you crushed it, till have X number of rides till it suddenly fails leaving you scratching your head, if still can scratch your head, over why it broke. So that nonsense about 5,500 Mpa is just that, nonsense used in marketing to erase peoples fear of CF.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/oth...ries-1.1879653

https://www.roadbikereview.com/threa...carbon.377783/

This video is funny but it makes a point, just click on the play button and enjoy: https://vimeo.com/106021360

I'm not sure that's always correct.

A friend damaged the top tube of his cf MTB frame, and the repair was only a few hundred dollars. If it'd TIG welded steel, it would've cost less to buy a new frame, most likely. Even a lugged steel frame is pretty expensive to repair.

Such a blanket statement about carbon frames is terribly misleading. There are flexy carbon frames and there are very stiff carbon frames. I own two carbon road bikes and their frame qualities could not be more different. One is confidence inspiring and just as solid feeling as any steel frame. The other one feels like a wet noodle.

Granted it's true you have to be very careful about torque specs.

It might also depend on your local terrain.

I met a local old guy in his late 70's... his driveway went straight up, maybe a half mile. He had a really nice carbon fiber bike, put it in low gear, and up he went.

If you've got a lot of hills, that few pounds saving may well be appreciated.

If it is completely flat, southern Florida. Then go with your concrete bicycle.

Bikes are more than the sum of their parts...
Frame material need not become 'religion'. Nor is a crusade needed for any tube.
Dogma and rationalization are one of the major human flaws.
I have too many bikes. They are all pretty great. If I had only one of them, I'd prolly get through ok. I have too many bikes.
All the materials have their advantages, strengths, weaknesses and disadvantages, so picking something is never perfect.
But that's inferred, since the entire Universe is 'imperfect', everything.
What I choose today is different from what I chose 25 yrs ago; and will not matter 25 yrs from now.
A few bikes is a good/nice thing. Too many bikes is stressful, attention diverting, lose of focus of what the 'bike' really brings to each of us.
'Riding' has very little to do with how many bikes I have.
Riding is always better than not riding, regardless of what I ride.
I have too many bikes.
RIDE on
Yuri

I've got 4 carbon frames here that are calling bs on that.

I don't see magnesium
 

My Vaast is made from it. Rest assured they promise it won't ignite.

I think it is correct. This is the reason that people who tour on bicycle chose steel because it's the only material that even a person with a simple welder can repair, be it anywhere in the world, you won't see that happening with any other frame material, especially CF or TI. Even in the US you still have to send the CF somewhere for the repair, whereas a local person could fix a steel bike.

Go do it right now, because I've done it to several different CF frames with the same result, and those CF bikes were $3,000 and up

Nope. Tube flexing is possible. But actually being able to pinch a tube enough to change its shape? Total BS.

Oh, so now you're going to change what I said, I did not say I changed it's shape, what I said was I could feel it flex slightly, which of course it rebounded when I let the pressure off, but try squeezing the center of a top tube on any other material and see what happens...nothing happens, no flex, no nothing, unless you're super strong you could make aluminum bend in from which it will not rebound back.

Ah, yes, the semi-mythical stories about people getting local welders in Timbuktu to repair their steel-framed touring bikes as they heroically pedal around the world. Right. Tell you what: you go get a quote on having a top tube replaced (so, old tube removed, new tube welded or brazed in, including the cost of the tube itself), and don't forget the new paint job. I'll bet it comes to more than the cost of my friend's cf top tube repair, which was under $300.

While it is often true that steel is easier and less costly to repair (especially mere bends which can be cold-set back into shape), and many steel frames function just fine with dents here and there, it is not always true that it'll cost less than a similar repair to a cf frame. That's why I wrote it like this:

Nope. I cannot feel it flex. And if you can indeed feel it flex when you squeeze the tube, you are momentarily changing its shape even if you can't see it. But it's irrelevant as there is no way you can do this unless you are Hercules. I'm calling BS.

x2

The first time I heard the "you can feel the top tube bending inward when you pinch it between your fingers" meme was back in the '80s, and they were talking about Reynolds 753 steel tubing.

Build a sub 600 gram steel frame and give it a squeeze, you would be able to crush it like a beer can. Now build a 1,700 gram carbon frame and give it a squeeze if you can crush that apply for a job with the circus. Besides who cares if it flex's anyways?

Good luck finding a random welder repairing a 753 or other heat treated steel frame. Given that most of the current premium lighter weight frames are tig welded how do you propose some local guy is going to repair that?

I did. I'm sure you could squeeze them with a pair of channel locks, but there's no way you're going to squeeze them with the pressure of your thumb and index finger.

We're getting off topic, sorta. I am still in shock over the low preference for aluminum. I was even considering the alum version of several nice bikes that are being offered in both carbon and alum, and not because I'm cheap, but because I honestly 'used to' (key word there) believe that alum would be more durable than carbon. Learning new things all the time.

Back in my road bike racing days, I have seen a crash where a rider broke his look kg k286 and another one where a time carbon frame had its fork broken.The cost of repairs of the both carbon bikes was not cheap. I agree that repairing a steel frame is easier