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[Carbon Fiber] Would this bike scare you?

Old 11-30-22, 05:08 PM
  #126  
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
...just between us, I am Lance Armstrong's Bike Forums sock puppet account. But it's a secret, so don't tell anyone.
Hey watch it! There is only one Sock Puppet here.
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Old 11-30-22, 05:18 PM
  #127  
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
...you like that .3% number I see. Stick with what you believe, sir. There are far too many people willing to abandon their belief systems, that are supported by small numbers, in order to risk calculation of total energy expense over a long course in windy conditions. Do not be that person.
The total extra energy expenditure, if the rider was accelerating every second of 112 mile ride, would be (about) 0.3%. But he wouldn't be accelerating the whole time, so the actual overall extra energy expenditure is much lower.

Why don't you do your own calculation and tell us what you get?
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Old 11-30-22, 06:55 PM
  #128  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
The total extra energy expenditure, if the rider was accelerating every second of 112 mile ride, would be (about) 0.3%. But he wouldn't be accelerating the whole time, so the actual overall extra energy expenditure is much lower.

Why don't you do your own calculation and tell us what you get?
Because trolls don't do calculations.
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Old 11-30-22, 07:17 PM
  #129  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
The total extra energy expenditure, if the rider was accelerating every second of 112 mile ride, would be (about) 0.3%. But he wouldn't be accelerating the whole time, so the actual overall extra energy expenditure is much lower.

...your back of the napkin number is suspect. There are more variables in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your equation. Your argument, from the moment you chimed in on this, has been that somehow, it's experimentally valid to approach this from the POV of one isolated variable, which can be quickly calculated using the standard formula. Mine has been, and continues to be, that I am not the one who dragged rotational mass of the wheels into this discussion. But once Lombard decided it must be relevant, and that I was misleading people, I presented a reasonable explanation of why it's still a valid component of the energy expended when riding your bicycle, even though as speeds increase, aerodynamics of rider and bicycle become much more of factor...I think I said by a factor of about ten. I then linked a blog post about this stuff, so you could see what I was talking about, which you repeatedly have insisted I do not understand. I gave it so you, and others, could see the small differences in the various wheels he was using as a statistical base.



I think that is when you responded:
Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
You may have read the blog, but I don't think you understand it.
Then, in for a penny, in for a pound, you decided to make this pronouncement.

Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
It doesn't matter what the wheels are made of. It takes very little extra power to keep a heavier set of wheels rotating at a given speed than a lighter set of wheels. That's physics.
And took great offense at my suggestion that, were I to believe this, the next big thing would be steel deep aero rims for bikes. I mean, why not ? Steel is cheap to manufacture, and apparently once you get them up to speed, everything will be glorious. If weight isn't really something to worry about, you can internally gusset them, and probably use fewer spokes. What's not to like ? But you are stuck in this world where everything you see to compare is pretty light, while wind resistance is the last big hurdle to going faster on a bike. I have genuinely tried to politely give you some idea of why your gross simplification of this problem is, at its best, inaccurate. Now, I no longer care. It's not my job. You want to be "right" ? Be my guest.

Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
Why don't you do your own calculation and tell us what you get?
...I don't need to do the calculations to know that:

1. you will disagree with it.
2. any energy savings in a long event like the ones triathletes endure is probably worth it to them to improve their results.
3. the human engine only operates at a peak efficiency of about 25%.
4. I am tired of this discussion.
5. and finally, I detest it when people use the royal we in these threads.
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Old 11-30-22, 07:19 PM
  #130  
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Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
Because trolls don't do calculations.
...I have calculated the likelihood that I will continue to engage you and your tag team zealot at .2%.
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Old 11-30-22, 07:31 PM
  #131  
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You know, I've been known to throw bombs and run before, but I just want to go on record as saying this thread was a legit question. Had no idea it was going to
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Old 11-30-22, 07:45 PM
  #132  
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
...I have calculated the likelihood that I will continue to engage you and your tag team zealot at .2%.
Interesting considering how many times in this thread you have said you will no longer engage me, then you did.
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Old 11-30-22, 07:45 PM
  #133  
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Originally Posted by VegasJen View Post
You know, I've been known to throw bombs and run before, but I just want to go on record as saying this thread was a legit question. Had no idea it was going to
Every frame material thread ever posted on bikeforums has gone of the rails and ended up as a trainwreck, so don`t be surprised if yours has too. Sit back relax and enjoy the entertainment.
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Old 11-30-22, 07:47 PM
  #134  
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Anybody want to talk about which chain lube is best or whether rim or disc brakes are better?
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Old 11-30-22, 07:51 PM
  #135  
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Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
Anybody want to talk about which chain lube is best or whether rim or disc brakes are better?
I'm going to state here and now disc brakes are overrated and are 100% marketing gimmick.
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Old 11-30-22, 08:04 PM
  #136  
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
...I don't need to do the calculations ...
You could have done the calculation in one-tenth the time it took you to write your post. But, that might have deprived us of this pearl:

Originally Posted by 3alarmer
and finally, I detest it when people use the royal we in these threads.
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Old 11-30-22, 08:05 PM
  #137  
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Originally Posted by vegasjen View Post
i'm going to state here and now disc brakes are overrated and are 100% marketing gimmick.
Get real. It's only 87%
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Old 11-30-22, 08:12 PM
  #138  
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
Mine has been, and continues to be, that I am not the one who dragged rotational mass of the wheels into this discussion.
Ummm, no. But you made the following remark:

Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
As was suggested earlier, the most bang for your buck in making any bicycle go faster is in your wheels and tires.
Which I responded to as misleading. Yes, I mentioned rotating mass which I erroneously referred to as rolling weight. Why did I mention this? Because there are plenty of people who believe the rotating mass thing as some magic bullet to make them go faster than losing weight on others parts of the bike. I stated that rotating mass may help you accelerate faster, but once up to speed, weight is weight.

Then you went off the rails with the "true believer" thing.

tomato coupe also tried to explain the same thing I did.

You then went on about how we've never ridden heavy steel rims.

tomato coupe tried to explain to you again.,

You then got butthurt and took it personally that he was implying you didn't know physics.

If yours was indeed a troll response, I'll have to admit it was a pretty good one. Keep on trollin'!

Last edited by Lombard; 11-30-22 at 08:15 PM.
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Old 11-30-22, 08:21 PM
  #139  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
Get real. It's only 87%
92.7% of all statistics on the internet are completely made up.
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Old 11-30-22, 08:22 PM
  #140  
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Originally Posted by VegasJen View Post
92.7% of all statistics on the internet are completely made up.
Speaking of statistics, see my auto signature below:
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Old 11-30-22, 08:31 PM
  #141  
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Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
Speaking of statistics, see my auto signature below:
I saw it.
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Old 11-30-22, 08:41 PM
  #142  
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Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
Speaking of statistics, see my auto signature below:
I can only see 56% of it on my iphone. What does the other 57% say?
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Old 11-30-22, 09:24 PM
  #143  
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.
...the victory dance at the end is always interesting. It's good to see people finding friends in General Cycling.
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Old 11-30-22, 09:35 PM
  #144  
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
....the victory dance at the end is always interesting. It's good to see people finding friends in General Cycling.
That last calculation didn't hold up very well, did it?
Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
...I have calculated the likelihood that I will continue to engage you and your tag team zealot at .2%.
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Old 11-30-22, 09:48 PM
  #145  
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
...your back of the napkin number is suspect. There are more variables in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your equation. Your argument, from the moment you chimed in on this, has been that somehow, it's experimentally valid to approach this from the POV of one isolated variable, which can be quickly calculated using the standard formula. Mine has been, and continues to be, that I am not the one who dragged rotational mass of the wheels into this discussion. But once Lombard decided it must be relevant, and that I was misleading people, I presented a reasonable explanation of why it's still a valid component of the energy expended when riding your bicycle, even though as speeds increase, aerodynamics of rider and bicycle become much more of factor...I think I said by a factor of about ten. I then linked a blog post about this stuff, so you could see what I was talking about, which you repeatedly have insisted I do not understand. I gave it so you, and others, could see the small differences in the various wheels he was using as a statistical base.



I think that is when you responded:


Then, in for a penny, in for a pound, you decided to make this pronouncement.



And took great offense at my suggestion that, were I to believe this, the next big thing would be steel deep aero rims for bikes. I mean, why not ? Steel is cheap to manufacture, and apparently once you get them up to speed, everything will be glorious. If weight isn't really something to worry about, you can internally gusset them, and probably use fewer spokes. What's not to like ? But you are stuck in this world where everything you see to compare is pretty light, while wind resistance is the last big hurdle to going faster on a bike. I have genuinely tried to politely give you some idea of why your gross simplification of this problem is, at its best, inaccurate. Now, I no longer care. It's not my job. You want to be "right" ? Be my guest.



...I don't need to do the calculations to know that:

1. you will disagree with it.
2. any energy savings in a long event like the ones triathletes endure is probably worth it to them to improve their results.
3. the human engine only operates at a peak efficiency of about 25%.
4. I am tired of this discussion.
5. and finally, I detest it when people use the royal we in these threads.
Was looking for that matrix, but couldn’t remember where I had found it. Thanks.
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Old 11-30-22, 09:51 PM
  #146  
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Jenn, congratulations on getting another multi-page thread goin. Little did you ever imagine it would transmongrafie into this. At least you are keeping the natives busy and entertained.
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Old 11-30-22, 10:18 PM
  #147  
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Originally Posted by rsbob View Post
Jenn, congratulations on getting another multi-page thread goin. Little did you ever imagine it would transmongrafie into this. At least you are keeping the natives busy and entertained.

...were I her, I'd be careful about celebrating this thread. It gives her very little justification for buying the CF plastic bike she wants / needs, and more or less relegates her to the tri pack fodder bikes, that are available cheaply all over the place. According to expert opinion here, weight don't matter in a triathlon. You just point that sucker in one direction, like a flywheel at speed, and turn it loose for 100 miles. A real (wo)man could do that on a Raleigh three speed.

And I'm pretty sure these guys are telling you, you didn't really need those wheels.
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Old 11-30-22, 10:59 PM
  #148  
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
....

And I'm pretty sure these guys are telling you, you didn't really need those wheels.
I believe that is called mansplaining.
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Old 11-30-22, 11:06 PM
  #149  
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I certainly wasn't celebrating. More like bemused that such a simple question could go so far sideways.
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Old 12-01-22, 01:34 AM
  #150  
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Kind of early in the winter for cabin fever to be setting in, but here it isl
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