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The quest for the perfect bike saddle...................again.

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The quest for the perfect bike saddle...................again.

Old 12-05-22, 10:44 AM
  #51  
rydabent
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Originally Posted by MattTheHat View Post
Proselytizing really should go in P & R.
No just telling it how it is. The truth will set you free.
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Old 12-05-22, 11:23 AM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
Well it's been a good run, but lately I've had some issues with pain in my right sit bone.
Did you upgrade your iPhone? Get a new seat bag? How about different tire levers? Carrying an extra tube with you? Steve Hogg thinks all of those things can affect your fit:

While I stand half naked in front of a mirror, Hogg repeatedly asks me to perform a simple muscle-resistance test—the details of which he says are proprietary and asks me not to reveal—whereby he places, one by one, the individual contents of my saddlebag at my feet. I "pass" the resistance test when he puts the empty saddlebag and then one of the tubes near me. After I fail the test when he places the second tube before me, Hogg picks it up with one hand and sweeps the magnet over it with the other. Hogg tells me he's changing the tube's polarity, then puts it at my feet again and digs his fingers into my sides. His hands come to rest on the top of my hipbones. They still aren't level.

We go through a similar process with my tire levers, and when my hips remain cockeyed, Hogg walks the levers across the shop and comes back carrying ones that he sells. He places them at my feet. His levers aren't notable, but Hogg insists that some things are to cyclists what kryptonite is to Superman, and even a change of polarity won't help. He suggests exorcising such offending objects.

He then administers the simple muscle-resistance test again. I pass it.
The Heretic Will See You Now - Bicycling Magazine
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Old 12-05-22, 11:28 AM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
I have a c17 cutout on my main road bike, a c17 regular on my gravel bike, and 3 other c17s on random lesser used bikes.
The 2 most used are both the newer weatherproof, while the others are the older soft cotton.

After maybe a couple hundred miles, the abrasiveness of the new style c17 was gone. They are quite smooth.
I own 0 Kevlar clothing. Just bib shorts touch the saddles and there is no wear that I have noticed.

I would be really annoyed if my bibs wore out quickly because they aren't inexpensive.
What's the saddle-to-handlebar positional relationship on your bicycle with the C17? I've heard that the C17 is not meant to be below the handlebars and my personal experience with it corroborates that. It stands to reason that different riding positions would impose different contact points with the saddle.
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Old 12-05-22, 11:37 AM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by Nyah View Post
What's the saddle-to-handlebar positional relationship on your bicycle with the C17? I've heard that the C17 is not meant to be below the handlebars and my personal experience with it corroborates that. It stands to reason that different riding positions would impose different contact points with the saddle.
The saddle is above the bars by 6-8cm, depending on the bike.
As for contact points, my bib shorts are what contacts the saddle and as for my body it's my undercarriage. I genuinely assume my contact is no different from anyone else(except the 2% outliers) with road bikes.
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Old 12-05-22, 12:15 PM
  #55  
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I've had a couple of saddles I really liked, but have yet to find the perfect one. Of course, I've only been looking 50 yrs. or so. Hope you have better luck!
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Old 12-05-22, 01:32 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
Did you upgrade your iPhone? Get a new seat bag? How about different tire levers? Carrying an extra tube with you? Steve Hogg thinks all of those things can affect your fit:
He has some bizarre ideas, as outlined in that article, but his method of setting seat height involves none of the bizarre ideas, and his seat height method is quite sound. There is no reason to disregard his sound ideas just because he has others that are whacky to say the least. If your seat height is too high, for you, not based on some calculation or angle, but instead based on your own personal physiology and flexibility, then you will have issues, and you will drop to one side to compensate. This will cause you to have problems on one side, and can also lead to back problems, and hip issues. I had both of those. A seat that is too high is also a cause of saddle sores. I had that too. After I got my seat height correct, for me, I no longer had pain, and have not had a saddle sore since, despite long days with no padded shorts on tour, days up to 70 miles long, day after day.

You can ignore the advice if you aren't having issues, But if someone is having issues, especially sit bone pain on one side only, indicative of favoring one side by dropping to one side, then perhaps you could learn something. If you do not like Steve Hogg, you could listen to bikefitjames on Instagram, as he agrees with what I am saying about seat height, and has none of Hogg's bizarre ideas.

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Old 12-05-22, 01:57 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by phughes View Post
He has some bizarre ideas, as outlined in that article, but his method of setting seat height involves none of the bizarre ideas, and his seat height method is quite sound.
I think everyone would agree that saddle height is an integral part of bit fitting, so you can't really separate the two. For instance, saddle height is highly dependent on cleat position, for which he also has ideas that are pretty far outside the norm.
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Old 12-05-22, 02:16 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
No just telling it how it is. The truth will set you free.

...the Truth is Out There.
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Old 12-05-22, 02:19 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by phughes View Post
He has some bizarre ideas, as outlined in that article, but his method of setting seat height involves none of the bizarre ideas, and his seat height method is quite sound. There is no reason to disregard his sound ideas just because he has others that are whacky to say the least. If your seat height is too high, for you, not based on some calculation or angle, but instead based on your own personal physiology and flexibility, then you will have issues, and you will drop to one side to compensate. This will cause you to have problems on one side, and can also lead to back problems, and hip issues. I had both of those. A seat that is too high is also a cause of saddle sores. I had that too. After I got my seat height correct, for me, I no longer had pain, and have not had a saddle sore since, despite long days with no padded shorts on tour, days up to 70 miles long, day after day.

You can ignore the advice if you aren't having issues, But if someone is having issues, especially sit bone pain on one side only, indicative of favoring one side by dropping to one side, then perhaps you could learn something. If you do not like Steve Hogg, you could listen to bikefitjames on Instagram, as he agrees with what I am saying about seat height, and has none of Hogg's bizarre ideas.
...seat height is also often noted in the case of people who describe "perineal issues" as a transitory phenomenon. It creates a situation where you are more likely to slide forward on the saddle, supporting more of your body weight in a place the bicycle saddle was not designed to mesh well with your anatomy. This is why saddle cutouts seem to work well for so many people. They remover entirely some parts of the saddle that you don't want pushing on your perineum anyway.
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Old 12-05-22, 02:31 PM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
I think everyone would agree that saddle height is an integral part of bit fitting, so you can't really separate the two. For instance, saddle height is highly dependent on cleat position, for which he also has ideas that are pretty far outside the norm.
You are doubling down on irrelevant bordering on ridiculous. You are missing the one salient point. The OP has pain on one side. That is indicative to dropping to one side, which is usually caused by a too high saddle height. Setting seat heigh dynamically, by judging how a person interfaces with the bike while actually riding under moderate load, is a good way to get the seat height set properly for the individual. Doing so while riding take into account the position of the feet on the pedals.

You are dismissing good ideas simply because one person espousing the idea has some other ideas that are off. There is absolutely nothing wrong with his ideas about seat height. Nothing. In fact, it is used by other fitters as a way of figuring seat height. I chose to link Hogg's articles because he explains it well, and has a good method for a person to assess their seat height without help. Your comment does nothing but possibly steer someone away from a fix that can help alleviate an issue, and possibly prevent more serious injuries that can be caused by a too high saddle height. I am now seeing why so many have you on ignore.
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Old 12-05-22, 02:49 PM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by phughes View Post
You are doubling down on irrelevant bordering on ridiculous. You are missing the one salient point. The OP has pain on one side. That is indicative to dropping to one side, which is usually caused by a too high saddle height. Setting seat heigh dynamically, by judging how a person interfaces with the bike while actually riding under moderate load, is a good way to get the seat height set properly for the individual. Doing so while riding take into account the position of the feet on the pedals.

You are dismissing good ideas simply because one person espousing the idea has some other ideas that are off. There is absolutely nothing wrong with his ideas about seat height. Nothing. In fact, it is used by other fitters as a way of figuring seat height. I chose to link Hogg's articles because he explains it well, and has a good method for a person to assess their seat height without help. Your comment does nothing but possibly steer someone away from a fix that can help alleviate an issue, and possibly prevent more serious injuries that can be caused by a too high saddle height. I am now seeing why so many have you on ignore.
The OP has pain on one side, but that doesn't mean it's due to saddle height. (My post about Hoggs actually had nothing to do with saddle height.) The underlying basis of Hogg's fitting philosophy is that most cyclists' have issues with pelvic alignment. I didn't say his ideas were crazy -- I simply quoted parts of the article. Ya'll can decide if his ideas have merit or not.
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Old 12-05-22, 03:00 PM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
The OP has pain on one side, but that doesn't mean it's due to saddle height. (My post about Hoggs actually had nothing to do with saddle height.) The underlying basis of Hogg's fitting philosophy is that most cyclists' have issues with pelvic alignment. I didn't say his ideas were crazy -- I simply quoted parts of the article. Ya'll can decide if his ideas have merit or not.
My post did have to do with seat height, as did the linked articles. Your linked article had nothing to do with what I posted and served no purpose whatsoever. Seat height is often a cause of pain on one side. Pain on one side usually indicates some issue with position on the bike. My post was an effort help pinpoint a cause for the OP's issue. You post was not helpful at all, and added absolutely nothing to the discussion, since the points you raised had nothing to do with his ideas on seat height. All you did was muddy the issue. Once again, I now understand why so many have you on ignore.
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Old 12-05-22, 03:01 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by phughes View Post
My post did have to do with seat height, as did the linked articles. Your linked article had nothing to do with what I posted and served no purpose whatsoever.
I didn't respond to your post, I responded to the OP.

The article explains a lot of Hogg's fitting philosophy. The OP has some kind of asymmetry problem. If anything, that's right in Hogg's strike zone.
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Old 12-05-22, 03:04 PM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
I didn't respond to your post, I responded to the OP.
Right after I posted links to Steve Hogg's site. Once again, I now know why so many people have you on ignore.
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Old 12-05-22, 03:12 PM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by phughes View Post
Right after I posted links to Steve Hogg's site. Once again, I now know why so many people have you on ignore.
Oh please. You posted links about Hogg's saddle height method, and I posted an article about his fitting philosophy that details some things that he thinks can cause problems like the OP has.
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Old 12-05-22, 03:16 PM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
Oh please. You posted links about Hogg's saddle height method, and I posted an article about his fitting philosophy that details some things that he thinks can cause problems like the OP has.
I think perhaps you have yourself on ignore. You can't even admit you posted about Hogg because I posted links to his site. Besides, your posts regarding Hogg does nothing to detract from his seat height information. In other words, your post is irrelevant to the issue at hand. Give it a rest. All you are doing is detracting from actual information that can help.
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Old 12-05-22, 03:28 PM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by phughes View Post
I think perhaps you have yourself on ignore. You can't even admit you posted about Hogg because I posted links to his site. Besides, your posts regarding Hogg does nothing to detract from his seat height information. In other words, your post is irrelevant to the issue at hand. Give it a rest. All you are doing is detracting from actual information that can help.
As far as I can tell, no one has diagnosed this as a definite saddle height issue. General bike fitting ideas, including Hogg's fit philosophy, are not irrelevant. Maybe Hogg's ideas will resonate with the OP and he will pursue them, and maybe he won't.
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Old 12-05-22, 04:09 PM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by phughes View Post
Right after I posted links to Steve Hogg's site. Once again, I now know why so many people have you on ignore.

...
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Old 12-05-22, 04:10 PM
  #69  
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The OP has scoliosis. His spine bends sideways. His seat height might be fine. It's complicated.
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Old 12-05-22, 04:23 PM
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...the guy asked for "any thoughts?" If he were not interested in hearing them, why would he ask ? Is this another troll thread ? I hate it when that happens.
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Old 12-05-22, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
Did you upgrade your iPhone? Get a new seat bag? How about different tire levers? Carrying an extra tube with you? Steve Hogg thinks all of those things can affect your fit:

The Heretic Will See You Now - Bicycling Magazine
Interesting. Definitely controversial in his fit techniques. And yes, I did get a new Android phone in late June. Nothing else changed.
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Old 12-05-22, 05:10 PM
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OK, an update:

I lowered my saddle by about 3mm and rode a 33 mile ride today. Here are my observations:

1) Sit bone pain didn't come back until about 10 miles in, then it was back as usual. The pain usually happens sooner than this. This could just be coincidental.

2) I felt less powerful and was definitely slower up hills. This of course could just be me getting used to a new position. It definitely felt awkward at first.

3) I had more of a tendency to slide forward on my saddle and had to repeatedly push back.

4) There appeared to be less pressure on my hands.

5) I had a slight pain in the patella toward the end of the ride.

6) Still no perineal numbness.

Last edited by Lombard; 12-05-22 at 05:14 PM.
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Old 12-05-22, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
5) I had a slight pain in the patella toward the end of the ride.
The old conventional wisdom is:

Pain in front of knee --> saddle too low or too far forward
Pain in back of knee --> saddle too high or too far back
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Old 12-05-22, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
The old conventional wisdom is:

Pain in front of knee --> saddle too low or too far forward
Pain in back of knee --> saddle too high or too far back
This is what I thought. Which leads me to believe my previous saddle height was correct.
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Old 12-05-22, 05:29 PM
  #75  
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...yet another thread in which I should never have participated. Proving once again, that no good deed goes unpunished.
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