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One more excuse to skip riding when it's cold

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One more excuse to skip riding when it's cold

Old 12-06-22, 07:33 AM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Mirkin has more Grammys.

So what do you have against Dr. Mirkin?
I didn't read the article. Seeing the name was enough to discredit it for me. I remember his radio show from way back decades ago. It was more about entertainment and ratings than anything else.
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Old 12-06-22, 07:40 AM
  #52  
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What a load of BS. This is extreme stupidity, even for the Internet . Humans have been hunting and foraging in the cold for ever. When fire was mastered, it was just rudimentary heat and you still needed to forage wood in the cold. And they didn't have ebikes or so, if they needed food, they had to "exercise" no matter the temperature.

So you say the Inuit (before our Western life style showed up) should all have been extinguished because that hack says so?

Listen to that online doctor. Because sitting inside on the couch and eating junk food is what makes the current generation so much healthier than previous generations who had to "move outside in all weather".

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Old 12-06-22, 08:35 AM
  #53  
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Taking the hint from experienced hikers (and from my years living in miserable winters) when I commute in the winter I dress in layers, thin good ones. Uniqlo heattech on the bottom, a thin wool sweater, light down jacket, light nylon jacket on top of that. Other areas: heattech tights under my jeans, winter hiking boots, wool socks. I start the trip warm and as I warm up I drop layers. The object is to stay a bit cool, not sweating even a tiny bit. I'll add a scarf if it's cold enough, ski goggles below 20F. The last couple of years I have learned that a KN95 is great at keeping a lot of my face warm, along with the air I breathe.

I will ride down to 15F, sometimes colder. I don't feel even a tiny bit cold, I don't breathe cold air--It's just like being cozy indoors. I am never to warm or too cold. I'm neither sweaty nor cold when I get to work.

Dress right and you won't notice the cold.
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Old 12-06-22, 09:02 AM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
You are too funny. There is nothing wrong exercising in cold weather.
It's certainly less risky than a sedentary lifestyle and eating McDonald's food in a warm place.
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Old 12-06-22, 09:06 AM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
I used to do short runs on snowshoes in heavy New England snow in my racing days. Cardio pulmonary hard? OMG. Every step I had to kick hard to shed the snow on the shoe. I'd run across short fields and be completely blown on the other side.

Does this study track age as a factor to susceptibility? I was in my mid-twenties then.
I was just out fat biking over the weekend in 12 degree temps. I lived to tell about it.
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Old 12-06-22, 09:10 AM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
I was a kid in Minnesota before snow blowers were common. It was routine to report on the news the number of people who died from heart attacks shoveling snow.
You are are right. It was and still is routine. I grew in the U.P. of Michigan...200-300" of snow each winter. The people that died of heart attacks shoveling had other risk factors such as folks that are obese, those that have had previous heart attacks or those who suffer from any type of heart or vascular disease, high blood pressure, diabetes or high cholesterol.
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Old 12-06-22, 09:11 AM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
It's certainly less risky than a sedentary lifestyle and eating McDonald's food in a warm place.
Winner, Winner chicken dinner.

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Old 12-06-22, 09:12 AM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by downtube42 View Post
Here's a cold hard truth if you're an American: unless you do something unusual, you'll die in a nursing home where unskilled labor has been changing your diapers and wiping your butt for the last phase of your existence. A cold induced fatal heart attack while cycling sounds like one of the better alternatives to me. Other people may choose to give up the joys of life for one more breath.
Yup. The wife and I were discussing our parents' fates the other day, and I told her that I wouldn't mind being taken out by a rogue motorist while riding my bike at a moderately old age. It would beat ending up like my mother or her father.
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Old 12-06-22, 09:14 AM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by Ridinglurker View Post
What a load of BS. This is extreme stupidity, even for the Internet . Humans have been hunting and foraging in the cold for ever. When fire was mastered, it was just rudimentary heat and you still needed to forage wood in the cold. And they didn't have ebikes or so, if they needed food, they had to "exercise" no matter the temperature.

So you say the Inuit (before our Western life style showed up) should all have been extinguished because that hack says so?

Listen to that online doctor. Because sitting inside on the couch and eating junk food is what makes the current generation so much healthier than previous generations who had to "move outside in all weather".
You obviously did not read the article, or any of the excerpts that the OP posted in this thread. So why do you feel the need to post an opinion of it?
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Old 12-06-22, 10:19 AM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
You obviously did not read the article, or any of the excerpts that the OP posted in this thread. So why do you feel the need to post an opinion of it?
I did read it. It didn't tell me how humankind survived the past 200,000 years without such great advice.
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Old 12-06-22, 10:40 AM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by Eric F View Post
What temperature is considered "cold"? In So Cal, anything less than 50, and the natives are bundled up with thick jackets. In MN, that's t-shirt weather.
In my college days, I spent spent a spring break in Minneapolis. That winter had a spell of -20F when my friend had just moved there. Now, first week in March, 20F and sun. I saw people waiting for the bus wearing just denim jackets.
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Old 12-06-22, 11:14 AM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
You are are right. It was and still is routine. I grew in the U.P. of Michigan...200-300" of snow each winter. The people that died of heart attacks shoveling had other risk factors such as folks that are obese, those that have had previous heart attacks or those who suffer from any type of heart or vascular disease, high blood pressure, diabetes or high cholesterol.
Exactly! The article is mostly aimed at people with already existing cardiovascular disease.

If you are healthy and know how to pace yourself, it's a non-issue. A lot of it is knowing how to listen to your body.
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Old 12-06-22, 11:37 AM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by Ridinglurker View Post
I did read it. It didn't tell me how humankind survived the past 200,000 years without such great advice.
Perhaps the fact that no one was dumb enough to do hours of continuous high-effort aerobic exercise in freezing temperatures until the (late) 20th century has something to do with it.
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Old 12-06-22, 12:03 PM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by Ridinglurker View Post
What a load of BS. This is extreme stupidity, even for the Internet . Humans have been hunting and foraging in the cold for ever. When fire was mastered, it was just rudimentary heat and you still needed to forage wood in the cold. And they didn't have ebikes or so, if they needed food, they had to "exercise" no matter the temperature.

So you say the Inuit (before our Western life style showed up) should all have been extinguished because that hack says so?

Listen to that online doctor. Because sitting inside on the couch and eating junk food is what makes the current generation so much healthier than previous generations who had to "move outside in all weather".
And the average life span was in the 30s.

If you had read the article you would had seen, “If you suffer from heart or lung disease, you should be very careful about exercising in cold weather. Breathing dry cold air constricts arteries and increases clotting to increase heart attack risk, and constricts bronchial tubes to reduce oxygen intake through the lungs. When the tempeature drops, people with known heart disease or lung disease are safer exercising indoors where they can breathe warmer air.”

Healthy people are NOT at risk.
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Old 12-06-22, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Trakhak View Post
Perhaps the fact that no one was dumb enough to do hours of continuous high-effort aerobic exercise in freezing temperatures until the (late) 20th century has something to do with it.
Aerobic is fine. When you go beyond that into the anaerobic range for long periods is where things could get dicey.
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Old 12-06-22, 12:09 PM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
Aerobic is fine. When you go beyond that into the anaerobic range for long periods is where things could get dicey.
Yes, of course, and "the article is mostly aimed at people with already existing cardiovascular disease," as you keep patiently explaining while people persist in ignoring that point.
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Old 12-06-22, 12:25 PM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
I was a kid in Minnesota before snow blowers were common. It was routine to report on the news the number of people who died from heart attacks shoveling snow.
Yeah, heart attack cases definitely increase in cold weather.

​​​​

heart.org -- Heart attack deaths more likely during winter holiday season than any other time of year


...​​​more people die from heart attacks between December 25th and January 1st than at any other time of the year.
Personal anecdote: My great-grandfather dropped dead while chopping wood in cold weather. My great-great-grandfather dropped dead in the snow on a hunting trip. He was found face down, with his finger still on the trigger. They were both several years younger than I am currently. Fingers crossed.

Edit: Grandfather also dropped dead at age 45 (in warm weather). Dad made it to 80, thanks to modern medicine and surgeries, before stroking out. We play the game with the cards were were dealt.
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Old 12-06-22, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
You are are right. It was and still is routine. I grew in the U.P. of Michigan...200-300" of snow each winter. The people that died of heart attacks shoveling had other risk factors such as folks that are obese, those that have had previous heart attacks or those who suffer from any type of heart or vascular disease, high blood pressure, diabetes or high cholesterol.

And if you had actually read the article instead of just joining in on the "didn't read past the headline" gang bang here, you would see that the article clearly said this was about cautioning people who have such risk factors."If you suffer from heart or lung disease, you should be very careful about exercising in cold weather. Breathing dry cold air constricts arteries and increases clotting to increase heart attack risk, and constricts bronchial tubes to reduce oxygen intake through the lungs. When the tempeature drops, people with known heart disease or lung disease are safer exercising indoors where they can breathe warmer air."

I got very sick a couple years ago when I got blood clots in my lungs, so I actually appreciate the warnings that aren't aimed at everybody in the world.

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Old 12-06-22, 01:43 PM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
And if you had actually read the article instead of just joining in on the "didn't read past the headline" gang bang here, you would see that the article clearly said this was about cautioning people who have such risk factors."If you suffer from heart or lung disease, you should be very careful about exercising in cold weather. Breathing dry cold air constricts arteries and increases clotting to increase heart attack risk, and constricts bronchial tubes to reduce oxygen intake through the lungs. When the tempeature drops, people with known heart disease or lung disease are safer exercising indoors where they can breathe warmer air."

I got very sick a couple years ago when I got blood clots in my lungs, so I actually appreciate the warnings that aren't aimed at everybody in the world.
I did read the article. Just reemphasizing those facts. The OPs title "one more excuse to skip riding in the cold" seems to imply that none of us should ride in the cold because of the article he posted.
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Old 12-06-22, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post
Personal anecdote: My great-grandfather dropped dead while chopping wood in cold weather. My great-great-grandfather dropped dead in the snow on a hunting trip. He was found face down, with his finger still on the trigger. They were both several years younger than I am currently. Fingers crossed.
Personal anecdote: My 62 year old grandpa had a heart attack push mowing the lawn in 80 degree weather and died.

What's your point?
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Old 12-06-22, 02:01 PM
  #71  
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I've had nothing much to do this morning except sit on my butt in front of this screen, so I did quite a bit of research on this topic. I'll just say that it's a lot more complicated than one would think - and of course it is! Mammalian physiology is now only starting to be understood. Dr. Mirkin is a popularizer who makes money off his popularization of various aspects of health and exercise. Ignoring the complicated makes everything simpler than thus more salable.

The question one might first think about is the relationship of temperature and blood viscosity. The first question which comes to mind is "temperature of what?" Air or blood, which is it? It's obvious from many studies that viscosity increases with decreasing blood temperature. I think we all know that going hypothermic is not a good idea. Yet when we inhale cold air, the blood in our lungs might become somewhat colder. But does it? Etc.

Mammalian physiology is complicated and the result of long evolution, think 200 million years of it (we are not different from shrews), Of course there's an advantage in blood getting thicker: Thick blood increases the sheer force between the blood and blood vessel walls. This releases nitric oxide which causes the blood vessel walls to become more flexible and thus cold does not particularly slow blood flow or increase clotting.

If course we can also simply dress warmly and keep our body temperature up to where it works best, if there is such a thing, which is still in question.

I had a paper route when I was a kid in Fairbanks and I delivered the papers on foot. It took me about an hour and a half. I delivered papers at -60 F just fine. Mostly I stayed warm enough, but when it got really cold, I'd sometimes have to jog for a bit to get the feeling back in my feet, and did once come down with pneumonia, probably from doing that. So probably not a good idea to ride hard at 50 below or so. Otherwise, it's all fine. We're built to do it. Alaskan sourdoughs would frequently go on many week trips in the backcountry in winter, sometimes just for fun, because it's impossible to travel far in roadless areas of Alaska in summer Winter was the time to travel or find a new place to live or work.

In the PNW, I've ridden in conditions where I had to scrape the ice off my glasses with my fingernails. That, having no brakes, and having only one usable cog on the cassette was a bit of a drag, so I didn't do much of that. Pissing on the cassette only works for a little while. Otherwise, it was fine. Doing 75 miles in a downpour at a steady 36 was pretty much my limit, in fact the experience removed any desire to again ride in the rain at below 40 F. I did a lot of rain riding in 40-55 F, no damage, though some might say that my mind was damaged.

Anyway, don't be afraid of the cold. OTOH, you really have to acclimate to it. Don't just go out into unaccustomed cold and think you'll love it. It helps to just keep riding through the fall and early winter and get used to the dropping temperatures at the same time you're learn to dress for them. That's of course was my experience delivering papers, and it was my custom to push the lower limits of clothing and stay just barely warm enough. I found that sped up the acclimation and was actually more comfortable in the long run. I also do that on the bike. Overdressing is a big mistake. Do not get sweaty! Especially if it's really cold, don't get sweaty.

From randonneuring, I learned that one cannot get frostbite or even tissue damage from not being able to feel your fingers or toes for long periods, as long as the temperature is above 32 F. Can't happen, don't worry about it. Below 32, yeah, it can happen, be careful of that. I've found that stopping and doing jumping jacks can be a good idea - no wind chill as long as it's not windy.
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Old 12-06-22, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Trakhak View Post
Perhaps the fact that no one was dumb enough to do hours of continuous high-effort aerobic exercise in freezing temperatures until the (late) 20th century has something to do with it.
Good that humans had the easy life of chasing an animal for hours or escaping and fighting predators. Or clearing a forest or pulling a plow by hand. No one back then read some Internet advice to figure out if running fast is a good idea. No one called it aerobic exercise, it was called escaping the angry elephant or whatever the need for the exercise was.

How do you think animals survive in the Wild? Not many bunnies die of a heart attack, they die if they don't run fast enough.

​​​​
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Old 12-06-22, 02:59 PM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
Personal anecdote: My 62 year old grandpa had a heart attack push mowing the lawn in 80 degree weather and died.

What's your point?
My point is that we should listen to doctors when they tell us stuff that is backed up by science.
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Old 12-06-22, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post
Yeah, heart attack cases definitely increase in cold weather.



Personal anecdote: My great-grandfather dropped dead while chopping wood in cold weather. My great-great-grandfather dropped dead in the snow on a hunting trip. He was found face down, with his finger still on the trigger. They were both several years younger than I am currently. Fingers crossed.
Nothing like a family history of heart disease to keep one eating right and exercising. Not to mention regularly check-ups.

Have a cycling friend whose father died of a massive MI at 45, so my friend, now 70, is still going strong eating right and running and cycling. But it is always a little black cloud in the back of his mind which keeps him on the straight and narrow.
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Old 12-06-22, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Ridinglurker View Post
I did read it. It didn't tell me how humankind survived the past 200,000 years without such great advice.

So basically, you choose to argue with points that absolutely no one is making rather than actually looking to see what's in the article.
This really is a pretty good discussion of how to mitigate the risks of working out in cold weather (and who should avoid it). No one would be critical about a similar article discussing the risks of working out in hot weather and why some people might want to avoid it.
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