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Difference in DT Swiss hubs

Old 12-06-22, 07:12 PM
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Tomm Willians
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Difference in DT Swiss hubs

Im referring to the DT Swiss series from 180 to 370 I can understand easily enough that the more expensive hubs should be more robust and easier to service but this is a slightly different question.
Assuming say a 370 hub is in good condition, should it spin as easily as a 180? Or more to the point, would there be a speed difference between the two? For the considerable price difference Id think so ?

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Old 12-06-22, 09:06 PM
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No.
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Old 12-06-22, 09:22 PM
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The 180 will be a bit lighter...As will be your wallet.

The 350 is the sweet spot in the DT Swiss hub lineup.
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Old 12-06-22, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Koyote
The 180 will be a bit lighter...As will be your wallet.

The 350 is the sweet spot in the DT Swiss hub lineup.
lessons learned on our 350 don't put regular grease on the ratchet. it seemed fine on my single but on the tandem it causes tandem glitches on the 8th and 9th cog. but only with a certain amount of torque I was putting out. we dent with it for months till the rim cracked and I got a new one and I figured out what I did. of course I fixed that and we had a lot of slippage on the 9th cog where we ride the most. I guess the nI changed the chain to eliminate the problem the cog was too worn.
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Old 12-06-22, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by fooferdoggie
lessons learned on our 350 don't put regular grease on the ratchet. it seemed fine on my single but on the tandem it causes tandem glitches on the 8th and 9th cog. but only with a certain amount of torque I was putting out. we dent with it for months till the rim cracked and I got a new one and I figured out what I did. of course I fixed that and we had a lot of slippage on the 9th cog where we ride the most. I guess the nI changed the chain to eliminate the problem the cog was too worn.
I think DT makes their own grease for their rear hubs. But I've never done anything to mine (350, old style) in 13k+ dirty miles, and it still works nicely.

I like it so much that I just (today) put a new wheelset on one of my bikes, and it is built with the newer 350 hubs -- rear has the EXP 36t ratchet. DT 350 hubs aren't sexy, but they are pretty simple, easily serviced, and light enough for all but the weeniest of the weight weenies.
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Old 12-07-22, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Koyote
I think DT makes their own grease for their rear hubs. But I've never done anything to mine (350, old style) in 13k+ dirty miles, and it still works nicely.

I like it so much that I just (today) put a new wheelset on one of my bikes, and it is built with the newer 350 hubs -- rear has the EXP 36t ratchet. DT 350 hubs aren't sexy, but they are pretty simple, easily serviced, and light enough for all but the weeniest of the weight weenies.
I did not shift down enough when removing the wheel and popped the hub off. so I needed to clean them and add grease. once I learned and fixed it all was good. but it sure made the hub act strange.
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Old 12-07-22, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Koyote
I think DT makes their own grease for their rear hubs. But I've never done anything to mine (350, old style) in 13k+ dirty miles, and it still works nicely.

I like it so much that I just (today) put a new wheelset on one of my bikes, and it is built with the newer 350 hubs -- rear has the EXP 36t ratchet. DT 350 hubs aren't sexy, but they are pretty simple, easily serviced, and light enough for all but the weeniest of the weight weenies.
3 wheelsets with dt350 hubs, one old style, two new. Love them.

I too have wondered about the 370's - are they less robust, lower performance, heavier or all of the above? There are some mid-range carbon wheels that come with them - thinking Roval's Rapid CL 38 and Terra C.
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Old 12-07-22, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Tomm Willians
Im referring to the DT Swiss series from 180 to 370 I can understand easily enough that the more expensive hubs should be more robust and easier to service but this is a slightly different question.
Assuming say a 370 hub is in good condition, should it spin as easily as a 180? Or more to the point, would there be a speed difference between the two? For the considerable price difference Id think so ?
I don't expect more expensive bike components to be more robust or easier to service.

I mainly expect them to be lighter and more efficient or better performing for what ever it is they are intended to do. As far as durability, I expect about the same as the lower priced stuff, though sometimes more expensive stuff might in fact wear faster.
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Old 12-07-22, 11:27 AM
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I have been researching a new wheelset and spoke via telephone with a gentleman from Velomine about this topic. The main difference, I was told, between the 350 and 370 is the star ratchet system of engagement. The 350 is the better of the two for having it. The 370, at least the version they have available, is a 3 pawl system of engagement. Online reviews seem to steeply favor the 350.
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Old 12-07-22, 11:40 AM
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For me one of the best features of DT Swiss hubs is the ability to remove the freewheel without tools. This allows drive side spoke changes when out on a longer ride or tour.
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Old 12-07-22, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by bargo68
The main difference, I was told, between the 350 and 370 is the star ratchet system of engagement. The 350 is the better of the two for having it. The 370, at least the version they have available, is a 3 pawl system of engagement. Online reviews seem to steeply favor the 350.
The OEM Reserve wheelset that came with my Cervelo R5 has DT Swiss 370 hubs (a bit of a disappointment).
DT Swiss does offer an Upgrade Kit to replace the 3 pawl with their star rachet.
DT Swiss Ratchet LN Freehub Body Upgrade Kit

I don't know that I will bother to upgrade mine. But the kit does come with the hub of your choice.
If I were to need to replace the hub or replace a pawl, I'd likely do the ratchet upgrade at the same time.

(Note: you need some specialized tools to make the change over)

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Old 12-07-22, 02:59 PM
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Aren't some DT Swiss hubs made in Taiwan? I think I remember seeing that the 240s are made in Switzerland and the 350s are made in Taiwan. My 540 Tandem hubs were made in Switzerland.
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Old 12-07-22, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by honcho
Aren't some DT Swiss hubs made in Taiwan? I think I remember seeing that the 240s are made in Switzerland and the 350s are made in Taiwan. My 540 Tandem hubs were made in Switzerland.
Why do you think Taiwan vs Switzerland makes any difference?
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Old 12-07-22, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Koyote
Why do you think Taiwan vs Switzerland makes any difference?
Have you seen those Swiss Misses? Hub-a hub-a.
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Old 12-07-22, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Koyote
Why do you think Taiwan vs Switzerland makes any difference?
If identical materials and processes are used to produce the hubs in both Switzerland and Taiwan, then there shouldn't be any substantive difference in quality or performance. However, Taiwan is generally thought of as a more economical production location and the price of products produced there are often lower than products produced in places like Switzerland. I believe, the DT350 series of hubs are less expensive than other series of hubs, and therefore may be produced in a lower cost of production location like Taiwan.
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Old 12-07-22, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by honcho
If identical materials and processes are used to produce the hubs in both Switzerland and Taiwan, then there shouldn't be any substantive difference in quality or performance. However, Taiwan is generally thought of as a more economical production location and the price of products produced there are often lower than products produced in places like Switzerland. I believe, the DT350 series of hubs are less expensive than other series of hubs and therefore may be produced. in a lower cost of production location like Taiwan.
You may be right. But you seem close to implying that hubs produced in Taiwan would be of lower quality than those produced in Switzerland -- which would be nuts. Taiwan is a world leader in microchip production -- in comparison to that, making bike wheel hubs is child's play.
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Old 12-07-22, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Koyote
You may be right. But you seem close to implying that hubs produced in Taiwan would be of lower quality than those produced in Switzerland -- which would be nuts. Taiwan is a world leader in microchip production -- in comparison to that, making bike wheel hubs is child's play.
Where did I ever say that Taiwan was worse than any other location? Read the words, there was nothing implied that DT Swiss products made other than in Switzerland are inferior.
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Old 12-07-22, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by honcho
Where did I ever say that Taiwan was worse than any other location? Read the words, there was nothing implied that DT Swiss products made other than in Switzerland are inferior.
Sure.
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Old 12-08-22, 06:53 AM
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As discussed, weight is major diff, as well as the ratchet system

DT Swiss Ratchet LN Freehub Body Upgrade Kit

Also if your considering replacing the bearings to ceramic, consider per comment at this link


hybrid ceramic bearings are terrible in practice because all the bumps you hit during your rides will cause the ultra-hard ceramic balls to make micro-indentations on the inner surfaces of the not-as-hard steel races and this will create more roughness and resistance over time, no matter how well you maintain them. Just a terrible idea, really.
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Old 12-08-22, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Koyote
I think DT makes their own grease for their rear hubs. But I've never done anything to mine (350, old style) in 13k+ dirty miles, and it still works nicely.
No, they don't make their own grease. This is something done by specialized companies in the petrochemical industry. DT might specify their grease and even may sell packaged grease with their name on it (like Schwinn used to do with Lubriplate grease) but they don't make grease. I would surely hope that you would get 13K miles out of a DT hub. I would be totally pi$$ed off if I had a hub fail at 13K miles. My current Campy Record hubs have over 75K miles on them and are still going strong.
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Old 12-08-22, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by KerryIrons
No, they don't make their own grease. DT might specify their grease and even may sell packaged grease with their name on it (like Schwinn used to do with Lubriplate grease) but they don't make grease.
I'm betting you're right -- they don't "make" their grease; they sell it. In practical terms, that makes zero difference. As a fellow pedant, even I find this distinction to be trivial.

Originally Posted by KerryIrons
I would surely hope that you would get 13K miles out of a DT hub. I would be totally pi$$ed off if I had a hub fail at 13K miles
This one's a matter of reading comprehension. Note that I wrote "I've never done anything to mine (350, old style) in 13k+ dirty miles, and it still works nicely." I was obviously NOT stating that 13k miles is a good lifespan for a hub; I was stating that mine have run 13k miles in tough conditions with NO SERVICE.

jfc.
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Old 12-08-22, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by bargo68
I have been researching a new wheelset and spoke via telephone with a gentleman from Velomine about this topic. The main difference, I was told, between the 350 and 370 is the star ratchet system of engagement. The 350 is the better of the two for having it. The 370, at least the version they have available, is a 3 pawl system of engagement. Online reviews seem to steeply favor the 350.
This is no longer accurate. The 370 hub now uses the star ratchet. It comes with the 18t rachet. The 350 now comes with a 36t ratchet. This was the main selling point for me when buying my Roval C38's after breaking a pawl in my OEM hubs.

https://www.dtswiss.com/en/wheels/wh...ogies-overview

Last edited by ratell; 12-08-22 at 01:13 PM. Reason: added link
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Old 12-08-22, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by ratell
This is no longer accurate. The 370 hub now uses the star ratchet. It comes with the 18t rachet. The 350 now comes with a 36t ratchet. This was the main selling point for me when buying my Roval C38's after breaking a pawl in my OEM hubs.

https://www.dtswiss.com/en/wheels/wh...ogies-overview
Yup.

This page is pretty interesting. Scroll your mouse and the hub opens up.
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Old 12-08-22, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by ratell
This is no longer accurate. The 370 hub now uses the star ratchet. It comes with the 18t rachet. The 350 now comes with a 36t ratchet. This was the main selling point for me when buying my Roval C38's after breaking a pawl in my OEM hubs.

https://www.dtswiss.com/en/wheels/wh...ogies-overview
Good to know! Sadly, The sales rep at Velomine told me none of his 370 hubs/wheelsets were ratchet engagement and DT Swiss hubs in general were very slow in being restocked.
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Old 02-01-23, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by ratell
The 370 hub now uses the star ratchet. It comes with the 18t rachet.
https://www.dtswiss.com/en/wheels/wh...ogies-overview
370 no longer uses pawls, it is "Ratchet LN". 350 uses "Ratchet".

So if I'm looking at wheels like this that says it has 370's
https://www.merlincycles.com/en-us/d...0c-108397.html
do I have to bug the retailer to find out if they are 3-pawl or Ratchet LN hubs? Chances are, they aren't going to know. Or they will have both and it will be up to some shipping guy to decide what I get.
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