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New high performance mixte. Is there such a thing? Was there ever?

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New high performance mixte. Is there such a thing? Was there ever?

Old 12-30-22, 11:17 AM
  #26  
KerryIrons
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Originally Posted by base2 View Post
I've got the mixte on the brain & I just can't quite shake it. I think a classic styled drop bar mixte frame built to modern standards like 1&1/8 threadless, disc brakes & carbon forks with sporty/aero-ish "endurance" geometry would be the bees-knees.

Soma Fab seems to be the only place that has a mixte of any kind on offer with their Buena Vista model. The "purchase" button redirects to a "404" error.

Rivendell is perpetually out of everything. It's a wonder they can stay in business...Even if I wanted to sit bolt-upright like the Omafiets Grant has decreed is the only "proper" fit, any tech newer than 1993 seems to have escaped him.

The ancient mixte's at my co-op rock heavy 1010/1020 gas pipe noodle frames of long obsolete "standards" in anything other than what would be considered an ergonomic "sporty" fit.

What gives?

Is there any True Temper OX Platinum, Reynolds 853, or Vari-Wall ThermLX, mixtes out there suitable for fast gravel & spirited group rides?

Though I have a surplus of weight-weenie goodies in the parts bin, I have the feeling most self-respecting frame-builders would laugh me out of their shop for asking such a request that defies convention...That it defies convention is sort of the appeal, if I'm being honest. But I want to be armed with a scratch pad of examples &/or a handful of lugs should a custom order prove to be the only path.

Short of a custom build, is there any honest-to-goodness modern mixte's for sale in 2023?

Edit for clarity: Step-through & mid-step bikes are down the hall to the left. I specifically am asking about the 2 tubes from the top of the headtube extending to the rear dropout in classic French style.
A mixte frame will always be heavier and less responsive than the equivalent diamond frame. Bottle cage location can also be an issue. Unless you need the step-through frame to deal with a physical limitation, there are no benefits and only detriments on offer.
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Old 12-30-22, 11:18 AM
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It’s common now on hardtail MTB for the caliper to be tucked between the stays on the chain stay. You see some mixtes where the top tubes run into the seat stays. (My wife’s Glorious is like this.) Those ideas seem like they would work together.

The ones that still carry the caliper high are using to enable sliding or rocker dropouts and still use IS mounts. The Buena Vista is like this. There are a few dropouts that tuck it in (Salsa Alternator FM on my Stormchaser for example or the Paragon "Dedicated 12mm")

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Old 12-30-22, 01:05 PM
  #28  
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One reason for thinking mixte: the diminishing flexibility that comes with age. I can almost always swing my leg over the saddle, but sometimes I get hung up for a few seconds. I can imagine not being able to do get on and off a DF, at which time a step-through, low-cost, old, used bike in my size made with double-butted steel with the strength of 531/SL/SP/Champion/022/etc. would be very welcome.
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Old 12-30-22, 06:12 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Trsnrtr View Post
I ride with a woman who once owned a mixte made by Waterford. She's since owned a few regular bikes. No idea what happened to the Waterford.
If she had a Single Top Down Tube Waterford Mixtie instead of the dual tubes, the frame she was riding was fashioned after MY WIFE'S CUSTOM PARAMOUNT and a customer of ours. I spoke to Marc Muller when he just began the Paramount production and he agreed to build our frames as per the Anything You Want Paramount's.

https://waterfordbikes.com/w/culture...ord-1980-1994/

from ^^^^ .... When Ed Schwinn took over the company in 1979, one of the first things he did was to shut down Paramount production. If it couldn’t be a world-class bike then don’t make one until it could.

Marc was put in charge of re-building Paramount – almost from scratch. He started out by retooling the department including a new brazing fixture and alignment table. In June of ’80, the company decided it needed the Paramount back but that they would have to move out of the Chicago factory. Marc’s first bikes were built for Eric Heiden and the 7/11 team in 1980.

That year, Schwinn brought back the Paramount as a super-custom bike – “anything you want” for the then outrageous sum of $3,000. These became known as the “Elite” Paramounts. ... "
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Old 12-30-22, 07:45 PM
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I think the potential performance step-through market in general is sizable and very under-served.
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Old 12-31-22, 12:24 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Fredo76 View Post
I think the potential performance step-through market in general is sizable and very under-served.
The problem is the binary we have assigned to bike frames. It is changing but there are a lot of those who identify as males who still believe that a step through bike is ordained to be for those who identify as females. Once we overcome bicycles not needing any sort of gender and start realizing those who have male genitalia would really benefit from a step through amongst so many other people out there that may have different, I think that market will be able to grow more.

Step throughs are just easier to get on and the only place where the suck is for frame bags and sometimes water bottle cage mounts inside the frame and maybe you could loose a touch of stiffness but that can easily be overcome and for the average person not an issue and for professional racers they probably wouldn't switch unless aerodynamically better.
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Old 12-31-22, 12:38 PM
  #32  
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Check out Retrotec bikes if you haven’t already, they make a classy mixte.
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Old 12-31-22, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by bboy314 View Post
Check out Retrotec bikes if you haven’t already, they make a classy mixte.
Oh, wow! Those guys have cool stuff!
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Old 12-31-22, 01:06 PM
  #34  
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"Yessir, we have the high performance mixtes on aisle six, just past the ultralight beach cruisers."
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Old 12-31-22, 01:35 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by veganbikes View Post
The problem is the binary we have assigned to bike frames. It is changing but there are a lot of those who identify as males who still believe that a step through bike is ordained to be for those who identify as females. Once we overcome bicycles not needing any sort of gender and start realizing those who have male genitalia would really benefit from a step through amongst so many other people out there that may have different, I think that market will be able to grow more.
"Mixte" when referring to French schools means a coed school. A mixte bicycle is by definition non-binary.
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Old 12-31-22, 02:09 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by ironwood View Post
"Mixte" when referring to French schools means a coed school. A mixte bicycle is by definition non-binary.
Yes but we have assigned step through bicycle a binary in fact there was recently a thread where someone did it and was fervent behind it.
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Old 12-31-22, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by veganbikes View Post
The problem is the binary we have assigned to bike frames. It is changing but there are a lot of those who identify as males who still believe that a step through bike is ordained to be for those who identify as females. Once we overcome bicycles not needing any sort of gender and start realizing those who have male genitalia would really benefit from a step through amongst so many other people out there that may have different, I think that market will be able to grow more.

Step throughs are just easier to get on and the only place where the suck is for frame bags and sometimes water bottle cage mounts inside the frame and maybe you could loose a touch of stiffness but that can easily be overcome and for the average person not an issue and for professional racers they probably wouldn't switch unless aerodynamically better.
I get what you're saying, but I am of the opinion that if they built it, we would come - we being aging cyclists, whose practical considerations are now out-weighing their youthful prejudice. Our local hospital is a hip and knee replacement profit center, at least before the pandemic, when they replaced both of my hips. We are not rare birds anymore; even TSA knows about us!

Trek currently makes a couple of ~24 lb. hybrid step-through models (the FX 'Stagger' series), and I think it's about time for someone to make a 17 lb. drop-bar step-through. I'd even settle for a 20 pounder, and I don't think I'm alone. My brother's 32 lb. Clem Smith Jr. got me around Saguaro National Park's wild loop drive without walking, but I can't say the same for my 21 lb. DF '70s racing bike. It wasn't the gearing, it was re-mounting on a steep hill that kept me from riding the whole way. And I bet a LOT of aging riders would prefer a step-through for safety, over a tricycle.

To answer the last question in the title, there were hand-built, TOTL, all-Campy, high-performance mixte-framed bikes in the '70s. I've seen pictures of them on this very site!
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Old 12-31-22, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Fredo76 View Post
I get what you're saying, but I am of the opinion that if they built it, we would come - we being aging cyclists, whose practical considerations are now out-weighing their youthful prejudice. Our local hospital is a hip and knee replacement profit center, at least before the pandemic, when they replaced both of my hips. We are not rare birds anymore; even TSA knows about us!

Trek currently makes a couple of ~24 lb. hybrid step-through models (the FX 'Stagger' series), and I think it's about time for someone to make a 17 lb. drop-bar step-through. I'd even settle for a 20 pounder, and I don't think I'm alone. My brother's 32 lb. Clem Smith Jr. got me around Saguaro National Park's wild loop drive without walking, but I can't say the same for my 21 lb. DF '70s racing bike. It wasn't the gearing, it was re-mounting on a steep hill that kept me from riding the whole way. And I bet a LOT of aging riders would prefer a step-through for safety, over a tricycle.

To answer the last question in the title, there were hand-built, TOTL, all-Campy, high-performance mixte-framed bikes in the '70s. I've seen pictures of them on this very site!
To a point yes but there are still some curmudgeons out there who insist that it is so. A lot of folks are getting on the step through band wagon but still holdouts unfortunately : (

A sub 17 drop bar step through would be nice. I am with you 100% on that. It wouldn't be difficult with the weight of frames these days it would be easy peasy. A nice Specialized Aethos step through would be pretty neat-o. I would personally want something titanium though or steel is acceptable.

Oh maybe something with that new Campy Ekar would be kinda cool. That groupset intrigues me more and more each time I look at it.
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Old 01-08-23, 01:53 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Kontact View Post
"Yessir, we have the high performance mixtes on aisle six, just past the ultralight beach cruisers."
Priority made a light beach cruiser a few years ago. Aluminum frame and rims, belt drive, rear coaster. The original single speed version with no brake and no chain or cassette must have been light indeed, probably in the low-mid 20's. With a gear hub and a front brake it comes up a bit. If they'd do aluminum fork or a hollow spindle it could come down some more
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Old 01-08-23, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Darth Lefty View Post
Priority made a light beach cruiser a few years ago. Aluminum frame and rims, belt drive, rear coaster. The original single speed version with no brake and no chain or cassette must have been light indeed, probably in the low-mid 20's. With a gear hub and a front brake it comes up a bit. If they'd do aluminum fork or a hollow spindle it could come down some more
Now upgrade it with Enve carbon wheels and carbon cranks, bars and stem. Think how little that would matter to using the bike to ride on a sidewalk.
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Old 01-08-23, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Kontact View Post
Now upgrade it with Enve carbon wheels and carbon cranks, bars and stem. Think how little that would matter to using the bike to ride on a sidewalk.
The lightness was a side effect, but the brand’s trademark selling point is to make a bike that doesn’t rust.
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Old 01-09-23, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Darth Lefty View Post
The lightness was a side effect, but the brand’s trademark selling point is to make a bike that doesn’t rust.

I think the pedal forward thing might be at a tipping point where someone might be better suited to a recumbent.

Other than that, I don’t get beach cruiser hatred.

I have one with cheap MTB riser bars and a front caliper. It’s good for taking the dogs on runs, easy bike rides cruising with kids, and going on bike dates with my wife.

I like that I put 2.125” tires on it without the fuss of suspension and derailers. I think when the Doberman is going along at a good clip, we’re probably around 30mph and I can’t perfectly pick my lines, avoid slight potholes, etc.

Also, I don’t see the big difference between a beach cruiser with fenders and a rack, and a Dutch bike. Seems like 2 interpretations of the same basic bike to me. Just change or adjust the bike to suit the rider.

ETA. I guess the discrepancy is so all bikes need to be performance oriented?

It reminds me of sports car or Prius owners asking to borrow a friends pick up.

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Old 01-09-23, 04:14 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Fredo76 View Post
I think the potential performance step-through market in general is sizable and very under-served.
Apparently there is a parallel universe going on out there where all these people are experiencing the same trials and tribulations as I am.

Last summer I started having issues trying to mount my touring bicycle with panniers. My body was just not cooperating. I twisted my knee and am still struggling with that, being old and arthritis and all that.

So my solution (I think, maybe) is to go for a Bike Friday. It has a low step over which I think will work for me. With the added bonus (maybe) of being a folder. I'm sorta getting ready to pull the trigger on one soon.

I have been checking out the mixtes and step thru models that are currently available and look cool and good enough for me. But I'm thinking of all the times I tried to get a ride (big fan of mixed mode traveling), use a bus or train or something and what a pain a full sized bike is (or can be). So I'm thinking a folding Bike Friday would be a good way to slip a bike into the trunk of a car or onto another conveyance that might not allow bicycles at all.

Of course this is all theoretical at this point in time. So hopefully by next summer I will get some real world experience on the matter.
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Old 01-30-23, 06:47 PM
  #44  
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It is done.
Somebody, somewhere must've had a shipping container of Soma Buena Vista Disc 58cm frames arrive because they are now available at Modern Bike & Universal Cycles.

I couldn't resist Modern Bikes $50 off MSRP, free shipping, & $0 of tax. It should ship out in the next day or 3.

In looking at the stack/reach numbers, the reach changes very little from one size to the next but the stack gets progressively taller as the size increases. (Duh.) In looking at photos of drop bar Buena Vistas online I see a consistent trend of many, many steerer spacers being employed. Given that the only size available may possibly be a half size too big, & the next unavailable size is very probably 2 sizes too small & in all cases the reach is +/- a few mm of all of my bikes I am confident that with the stems & bars I have on hand some combination can be made to work.

In all honesty, the stack height of the 58 size Buena makes me tentatively nervous though. It'll have more stack than my half-size too big size 58 R5...& that has no spacers at all. In thinking this through, I think the worst case scenario is perform a patented flip-n-slam that stem maneuver combined with an 80-100mm -12 degree stem. It has been a few years since I have bought an off-the-shelf frame so my mind is aflutter with butterflies of mass-market generic fit woes...It'll be fine, I'm sure.

Given the online trend of "inches of spacers" seen with this frame, I felt the odds of success were good enough to take the chance.

More to follow. I intend to lift the entire component group off of my too small rescued 55cm Salsa Vaya frame & transplant it wholesale.

Wish me luck!

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Old 01-31-23, 11:04 AM
  #45  
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There are LOTS of steep slope top tube bikes. There is NO need for a mixte frame.
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Old 01-31-23, 02:14 PM
  #46  
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rivendell make a number of different 'low top tube" bikes if not the classic mixte double tube and they do come in tall sizes.....

https://www.rivbike.com/products/frame-platypus-2021
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Old 01-31-23, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by squirtdad View Post
rivendell make a number of different 'low top tube" bikes if not the classic mixte double tube and they do come in tall sizes.....

https://www.rivbike.com/products/frame-platypus-2021
I have been pining for a Platypus for oh, so long. If they had one in a size I thought I could make work it would have a happy home already. Very stylish bikes indeed.

I have no shortage of complete Motobecanes, Windsors, Bridgestone Sirrus', Peugeots, etc...all available basically for "free" that I could have if I want.

It's the "modern" that is the sticking point & the challenge. Tubeless, dropbars & disc brakes. Something "race-y" that is not for recreational ambling along the tow-path. It's been quite a challenge.

I'm excited for the Soma Buena Vista. It looks so classy. It ships tomorrow morning!
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Old 01-31-23, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by GamblerGORD53 View Post
There are LOTS of steep slope top tube bikes. There is NO need for a mixte frame.
Yes there is.
Style.
It's important if I say it is.
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Old 01-31-23, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by base2 View Post
I have been pining for a Platypus for oh, so long. If they had one in a size I thought I could make work it would have a happy home already. Very stylish bikes indeed.

I have no shortage of complete Motobecanes, Windsors, Bridgestone Sirrus', Peugeots, etc...all available basically for "free" that I could have if I want.

It's the "modern" that is the sticking point & the challenge. Tubeless, dropbars & disc brakes. Something "race-y" that is not for recreational ambling along the tow-path. It's been quite a challenge.

I'm excited for the Soma Buena Vista. It looks so classy. It ships tomorrow morning!
looking forward to pictures of the build
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(looking for Torpado Super light frame/fork or whole biked 57,58)


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Old 01-31-23, 08:24 PM
  #50  
smd4
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Originally Posted by base2 View Post
Yes there is.
Style.
It's important if I say it is.
Your post title asks about “high performance” mixtes. Of course, that’s an oxymoron.

Their “style’ is also questionable, but as they say, there’s no accounting for taste.
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