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Anyone else keeping their rim brake frames ?

Old 01-09-23, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Ironfish653
Half my fleet is SunTour equipped. One has 27x1-1/4 wheels.
That's what I thought. So why are you on this particular thread ridiculing people for making the same choice. Disc brakes are not compatible with the frames that came before them. A person has to decide whether to get a new bike/new technology or move into the luddite ranks even if their current rim brake bike was top of the line from a couple of years ago. Some don't think it's worth it. I don't either. I'm a luddite. That's life.
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Old 01-09-23, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Koyote
Isopropyl alcohol would work fine, and you can buy it for under a buck at pretty much any drug store on the planet.
That's one of the big problems with disc brakes. What if you're on another planet, where the drug stores don't carry isopropyl alcohol? You'll wish you had rim brakes then.
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Old 01-10-23, 01:21 AM
  #253  
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Originally Posted by seypat
That's what I thought. So why are you on this particular thread ridiculing people for making the same choice. Disc brakes are not compatible with the frames that came before them. A person has to decide whether to get a new bike/new technology or move into the luddite ranks even if their current rim brake bike was top of the line from a couple of years ago. Some don't think it's worth it. I don't either. I'm a luddite. That's life.
I'm no luddite, far from it; I consider myself pretty agnostic when it comes to bike tech. I'll ride anything; although I do have a predilection for designs and concepts outside the 'norm' (interesting bikes) I also don't have a whole lot of discretionary money to support my bike hobby, so the bikes I do acquire, tend to be inexpensive. Inexpensive, good quality bicycles tend to be older, so I tend to have older bikes. I don't pick them because they're old, but i'd rather ride a 3.0 Cannondale than a 2008 Jamis because it's a more interesting bike. (Actually, my 3.0 has been upgraded to ~2008 spec, so there's that)

I dont think older bikes are some sort of superior moral choice, or anything, or that I'm having to carry the torch for the old ways. I also don't begrudge those who can readily acquire the latest and greatest, either. I used to race XC when i was (a lot) younger, so i totally get chasing the never ending string of upgrades, too.

I do feel the need to call out people who say that anyone who has a newer bike than them is a "sheep" or "industry dupe"

Last edited by Ironfish653; 01-10-23 at 04:58 AM.
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Old 01-10-23, 04:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Ironfish653
.......One has 27x1-1/4 wheels.
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Old 01-10-23, 04:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Ironfish653
He's not talking about you.

There's a very vocal cohort on this site who believe that bicycle tech peaked sometime around 1987; The only worthwhile frames are lugged steel, integrated shifters and clipless pedals are just a marketing excercise by the bike mfgrs to get you to upgrade, carbon bikes explode, and flat handlebars are unrideable except for genetic mutants and those who have fallen from the One True Way
Guilty as charged. I throw myself on the mercy of the court.

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Old 01-10-23, 05:41 AM
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Originally Posted by HelpSingularity
It sounds a lot better if you say 32mm instead. Plus, you can convert to 700, run wide tires and fenders.
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Old 01-10-23, 05:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Koyote
...in your "admittedly limited experience."
You can keep saying that, if thatís all you got. But itís not really relevant. Do I have to have limited experience to think that theyíre ugly? Inellelegant? Does my limited experience make them lighter than rim brakes? More aerodynamic? Does my limited experience apply to everything Iíve read about or heard from others, including shop personnel, about their finickiness? Occasional lack of modulation? Iíve already conceded they stop well, especially in the wet. And yet youíve given me zero reason why they would be beneficial to me. Because, in fact, you have ZERO experience with my brakes.

Last edited by smd4; 01-10-23 at 05:52 AM.
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Old 01-10-23, 05:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Ironfish653

I do feel the need to call out people who say that anyone who has a newer bike than them is a "sheep" or "industry dupe"
This is exactly what triggers me too. A few old farts will always run this line along with all the reasons why they think disc brakes are a downgrade from their precious rim brakes, which we all have plenty of first-hand experience with anyway unless we are aged 10 or under.
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Old 01-10-23, 05:55 AM
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Originally Posted by seypat
I don't know that they think it peaked. They might not think the upgrade is worth it.
Nah, the real hardcore "rim" guys really do think disc brakes are a downgrade.
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Old 01-10-23, 06:05 AM
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Originally Posted by smd4
You can keep saying that, if thatís all you got. But itís not really relevant. Do I have to have limited experience to think that theyíre ugly? Inellelegant? Does my limited experience make them lighter than rim brakes? More aerodynamic? Does my limited experience apply to everything Iíve read about or heard from others, including shop personnel, about their finickiness? Occasional lack of modulation? Iíve already conceded they stop well, especially in the wet. And yet youíve given me zero reason why they would be beneficial to me. Because, in fact, you have ZERO experience with my brakes.
There are people who "think" the earth is flat. The problem people are having with your summary of disc brakes is that it's totally biased and doesn't really stand up to any scrutiny from anyone with any significant experience with disc brakes.

That aside, nobody is trying to tell you that disc brakes would give YOU any significant advantage. But that doesn't mean you won't get called out for talking crap.
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Old 01-10-23, 06:19 AM
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A completely inane post in the first place ('NO! You are special, all the rest of us get rid of our old bikes every time a new "innovation" comes along!!!'). And now we're at 11 pages and counting.

We all need to shut up and ride our bikes.

Sheesh.
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Old 01-10-23, 06:39 AM
  #262  
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Originally Posted by smd4
You can keep saying that, if thatís all you got. But itís not really relevant. Do I have to have limited experience to think that theyíre ugly? Inellelegant? Does my limited experience make them lighter than rim brakes? More aerodynamic?
Ugly? Subjective
Inelegant? Somewhat subjective, but I'd argue that grinding down a structural element every time you apply the brakes isn't exactly an elegant solution to a problem. Especially if one rides in places with weather. And sand. So most places really.
Heavier? Perhaps, but discs also allow one to take weight off the rim, which I'm told is where it matters most. Also not really that big of an issue when it's trivial to build a disc brake bike weighing less than the UCI road bike weight limit.
Less aerodynamic? Again, debatable as you can get better aerodynamics from rims. Also flat mount brakes sit pretty snugly behind the fork leg so the realistic added drag is negligible.

Does my limited experience apply to everything Iíve read about or heard from others, including shop personnel, about their finickiness?
It should. If you knew any better you'd know they're not really all that finicky. Set and forget really. It's the setting up that causes people issues sometimes but I've had less issues with hydro discs than I've had with cable discs or cable rim brakes, especially after I learned to set them up.

Occasional lack of modulation?
What do you mean by that. I had to check what brake modulation means and in cars it apparently means "Brake modulation is the ability to precisely and accurately control the amount of clamping force on a disc with a given amount of pedal input. In other words, it means you can scrub off as much or as little speed as you want without tire lockup."
Perhaps in the bike world it means something different. But with that previous definition in mind hydro disc brakes modulate far better than rim brakes. Depending on the brake of course as there are bad hydro brakes on the market. But Shimano mid to higher end stuff in MTB and all of their road stuff is pretty ace.

And yet youíve given me zero reason why they would be beneficial to me. Because, in fact, you have ZERO experience with my brakes.
Personally I fail to see why that would be relevant. Your brakes are your brakes. If you don't want discs no one is forcing them on you.
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Old 01-10-23, 07:17 AM
  #263  
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Originally Posted by elcruxio
Ugly? Subjective
Inelegant? Somewhat subjective, but I'd argue that grinding down a structural element every time you apply the brakes isn't exactly an elegant solution to a problem. Especially if one rides in places with weather. And sand. So most places really.
While there undoubtably are situations and environments where rim wear may be a problem, I submit that it is an exaggeration to claim that covers "most places." I routinely ride wheels that are many years old, with little or no significant wear on the brake track, including the second pair of wheels I ever built, back in 1978.

N.B. in all the decades I've been riding, I've never actually had to replace a rim due to wear on the brake track.

Last edited by JohnDThompson; 01-10-23 at 07:21 AM.
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Old 01-10-23, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson
While there undoubtably are situations and environments where rim wear may be a problem, I submit that it is an exaggeration to claim that covers "most places." I routinely ride wheels that are many years old, with little or no significant wear on the brake track, including the second pair of wheels I ever built, back in 1978.

N.B. in all the decades I've been riding, I've never actually had to replace a rim due to wear on the brake track.
It of course depends how and when the bike is ridden. I've had to replace a rim due to wear but that rim was ridden in every weather all year round and was toured with. When riding in decent weather the rim wear is going to be less than say, on a wet gravel ride where you can hear the sandy grinding paste getting to work. And you'd need to clean the pads regularly and see if there's pieces of rim embedded and all that jazz. I don't miss that at all
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Old 01-10-23, 08:30 AM
  #265  
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Originally Posted by Ironfish653
There's a very vocal cohort on this site who believe that bicycle tech peaked sometime around 1987; The only worthwhile frames are lugged steel, integrated shifters and clipless pedals are just a marketing excercise by the bike mfgrs to get you to upgrade, carbon bikes explode, and flat handlebars are unrideable except for genetic mutants and those who have fallen from the One True Way
There is also a very vocal cohort on this site who believe that bicycle tech pre-2012 is downright dangerous, that steel is too heavy and slow as a frame material to use, that hidden cables actually improve aero gains in spite of an amateur with 28+bmi riding the bike, and integrated cockpits are a benefit for amateurs that store their bike on a hook and ride once every couple weeks.
Posters actually do claim they will only ride with discs now and that rim brakes are dangerous. Somehow people willingly and happily rode those routes for years, but nevermind that. People actually think a 2# bike weight difference will matter over 40mi when ridden by some amateur that puts out 160w on average. Thats just comical. People actually think that fully hidden cables will improve their aerodynamics in any meaningful way, even though they average 15mph.

Once again- there are really extreme and delusional people who hold some comically absurd views and both ends of a spectrum are filled with them.
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Old 01-10-23, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson
While there undoubtably are situations and environments where rim wear may be a problem, I submit that it is an exaggeration to claim that covers "most places." I routinely ride wheels that are many years old, with little or no significant wear on the brake track, including the second pair of wheels I ever built, back in 1978.

N.B. in all the decades I've been riding, I've never actually had to replace a rim due to wear on the brake track.
I don't think alloy rims are the concern.

From what I've read and heard from some CF experts (don't kill the messenger, it's just what I've seen/heard), its heat and wear on CF rim surfaces that is an area of concern.
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Old 01-10-23, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson
While there undoubtably are situations and environments where rim wear may be a problem, I submit that it is an exaggeration to claim that covers "most places." I routinely ride wheels that are many years old, with little or no significant wear on the brake track, including the second pair of wheels I ever built, back in 1978.

N.B. in all the decades I've been riding, I've never actually had to replace a rim due to wear on the brake track.
Until I came to this site, I had never even heard of someone replacing a worn rim. And that's after working ten years in bike shops up and down California in the 1980s/1990s.
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Old 01-10-23, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
There is also a very vocal cohort on this site who believe that bicycle tech pre-2012 is downright dangerous
Can't say I've come across these guys. Any examples?

Also just because we happily rode older tech bikes in the past, doesn't make incremental improvements any less valid. With bicycles, it is all about marginal gains, but I find they do add up over time. Whether or not people choose to take them up is a personal choice. There were presumably people happily riding Penny Farthings back in the day.
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Old 01-10-23, 09:26 AM
  #269  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
Can't say I've come across these guys. Any examples?

Also just because we happily rode older tech bikes in the past, doesn't make incremental improvements any less valid. With bicycles, it is all about marginal gains, but I find they do add up over time. Whether or not people choose to take them up is a personal choice. There were presumably people happily riding Penny Farthings back in the day.
I forgot the list of posters in the pants I wore yesterday.
Seriously now, you think I actually sit here and categorize people as pro or anti disc? Come on. No I dont have documented examples because I dont care enough to and it never occurred that someone would actually challenge a reality that is just so clearly seen to me on here.
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Old 01-10-23, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
Nah, the real hardcore "rim" guys really do think disc brakes are a downgrade.
No. It that us ďrim guysĒ donít think disc brakes are an upgrade. They are at most a lateral move.
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Old 01-10-23, 10:01 AM
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I don't understand why any of this is a controversy or a point of contention, or why people get their identities and egos so wrapped up in this nonsense.

Speaking strictly for myself, I love the simplicity of rim brakes and I love the performance of hydraulic disc brakes. I'm not evangelical about either.

Just own your choices and don't let yourself be badgered into defending them, especially to the masturdebaters here who seem to think that every thread is a battle to be won.
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Old 01-10-23, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by elcruxio
What do you mean by that. I had to check what brake modulation means and in cars it apparently means "Brake modulation is the ability to precisely and accurately control the amount of clamping force on a disc with a given amount of pedal input. In other words, it means you can scrub off as much or as little speed as you want without tire lockup."
Perhaps in the bike world it means something different. But with that previous definition in mind hydro disc brakes modulate far better than rim brakes. Depending on the brake of course as there are bad hydro brakes on the market. But Shimano mid to higher end stuff in MTB and all of their road stuff is pretty ace.
As someone with far more experience with discs that smd4…both setting them up and using them…as well as 50+ years of hand brake experience including using cantilevers on mountain bikes on mountain bike trails that people now tell me can only be ridden with disc brakes, I can confidently say that I’ve never experienced a situation where I couldn’t “precisely and accurately control the amount of clamping force” on any brake surface…rim or disc. As noted above, I have a bike that has disc front and linear back. I don’t use different clamping force depending on which brake I’m actuating. I don’t notice any difference in the force needed nor is one easier to use than the other. I have several cantilever equipped bikes as well and notice no difference in the ability to brake…even when doing so on fast downhills with a heavily loaded touring bike. The bikes…all of them independent of the braking system…stop where and when I need them to stop. It’s not something that I even think about while I ride.

Personally I fail to see why that would be relevant. Your brakes are your brakes. If you don't want discs no one is forcing them on you.
Well they are being forced on us. Some of us have older bikes with rim brakes because a replacement isn’t available and, as has been noted elsewhere, there’s no need to discard a bike just because they don’t have the latest and greatest technology. My Moots…the one with the disc front and linear rear…is a very good bike that would cost me $8000 just for new frame. It still works as a mountain bike and there’s lots of other things I could dump $8000 on.

There is also the contingent of folks here on the Bike Forums and out in the world who try to convince us that we are risking out lives by using rim brakes. This whole thread started innocently enough with the simple question of “anyone else keeping their rim brake frames?”, and has garnered a whole bunch of insulting responses including being called luddites, being told that we are going to die if we don’t use discs, being told we are inadequate because we don’t use discs, etc. The question wasn’t “are rim brakes better?” or “are disc brakes bad?” There really was no need for disc brake users to even respond other then to stir the pot.

Originally Posted by elcruxio
It of course depends how and when the bike is ridden. I've had to replace a rim due to wear but that rim was ridden in every weather all year round and was toured with. When riding in decent weather the rim wear is going to be less than say, on a wet gravel ride where you can hear the sandy grinding paste getting to work. And you'd need to clean the pads regularly and see if there's pieces of rim embedded and all that jazz. I don't miss that at all
JohnDThompson has a valid point. Far too much is made out of rim wear. In my own personal experience…40 bikes over 40 to 45 years including mountain biking for most or all of that…I’ve replaced only 3 or 4 rims due to wear. In my experience at the local co-op (15 years of at least once a week volunteering and working on upwards of 20,000 bikes as well as donation take in), I seldom run across a rim that is worn out. I won’t say never but worn rims with visible cupping of the brake surface is a rare event, maybe 1 out of every 100 to 300 wheels.
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Old 01-10-23, 10:14 AM
  #273  
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Originally Posted by Rolla
I don't understand why any of this is a controversy or a point of contention, or why people get their identities and egos so wrapped up in this nonsense.

Speaking strictly for myself, I love the simplicity of rim brakes and I love the performance of hydraulic disc brakes. I'm not evangelical about either.

Just own your choices and don't let yourself be badgered into defending them, especially to the masturdebaters here who seem to think that every thread is a battle to be won.
By the way, just as I was reading your post's last sentence, a gaggle of new 'call girl' spams popped up here in 'General'.
Coincidence? I think not!
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Old 01-10-23, 10:18 AM
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I'm holding out for the cableless/electronic braking systems, rim or disc. They can't be far off. Unfortantely, the price will be too steep. I'll just have to do even more hoarding. So it goes.
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Old 01-10-23, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Rolla
I don't understand why any of this is a controversy or a point of contention, or why people get their identities and egos so wrapped up in this nonsense.

Speaking strictly for myself, I love the simplicity of rim brakes and I love the performance of hydraulic disc brakes. I'm not evangelical about either.

Just own your choices and don't let yourself be badgered into defending them, especially to the masturdebaters here who seem to think that every thread is a battle to be won.
If every poster had included the clause "Speaking strictly for myself" before offering an opinion, and not pushed rather absolutist ideas about disc brakes (esp in the limited actual experience), the thread would've died a quick death.

Originally Posted by cyccommute
My MootsÖthe one with the disc front and linear rearÖis a very good bike that would cost me $8000 just for new frame. It still works as a mountain bike and thereís lots of other things I could dump $8000 on.
Moots makes an $8000 frame? Does it have a whole lot of custom stuff?
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