Anyone else keeping their rim brake frames ?
01-10-23, 10:47 AM
#276
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,204
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 868 Post(s)
Liked 939 Times
in
472 Posts
As someone with far more experience with discs that smd4…both setting them up and using them…as well as 50+ years of hand brake experience including using cantilevers on mountain bikes on mountain bike trails that people now tell me can only be ridden with disc brakes, I can confidently say that I’ve never experienced a situation where I couldn’t “precisely and accurately control the amount of clamping force” on any brake surface…rim or disc. As noted above, I have a bike that has disc front and linear back. I don’t use different clamping force depending on which brake I’m actuating. I don’t notice any difference in the force needed nor is one easier to use than the other. I have several cantilever equipped bikes as well and notice no difference in the ability to brake…even when doing so on fast downhills with a heavily loaded touring bike. The bikes…all of them independent of the braking system…stop where and when I need them to stop. It’s not something that I even think about while I ride.
Well they are being forced on us. Some of us have older bikes with rim brakes because a replacement isn’t available and, as has been noted elsewhere, there’s no need to discard a bike just because they don’t have the latest and greatest technology. My Moots…the one with the disc front and linear rear…is a very good bike that would cost me $8000 just for new frame. It still works as a mountain bike and there’s lots of other things I could dump $8000 on.
There is also the contingent of folks here on the Bike Forums and out in the world who try to convince us that we are risking out lives by using rim brakes. This whole thread started innocently enough with the simple question of “anyone else keeping their rim brake frames?”, and has garnered a whole bunch of insulting responses including being called luddites, being told that we are going to die if we don’t use discs, being told we are inadequate because we don’t use discs, etc. The question wasn’t “are rim brakes better?” or “are disc brakes bad?” There really was no need for disc brake users to even respond other then to stir the pot.
JohnDThompson has a valid point. Far too much is made out of rim wear. In my own personal experience…40 bikes over 40 to 45 years including mountain biking for most or all of that…I’ve replaced only 3 or 4 rims due to wear. In my experience at the local co-op (15 years of at least once a week volunteering and working on upwards of 20,000 bikes as well as donation take in), I seldom run across a rim that is worn out. I won’t say never but worn rims with visible cupping of the brake surface is a rare event, maybe 1 out of every 100 to 300 wheels.
Well they are being forced on us. Some of us have older bikes with rim brakes because a replacement isn’t available and, as has been noted elsewhere, there’s no need to discard a bike just because they don’t have the latest and greatest technology. My Moots…the one with the disc front and linear rear…is a very good bike that would cost me $8000 just for new frame. It still works as a mountain bike and there’s lots of other things I could dump $8000 on.
There is also the contingent of folks here on the Bike Forums and out in the world who try to convince us that we are risking out lives by using rim brakes. This whole thread started innocently enough with the simple question of “anyone else keeping their rim brake frames?”, and has garnered a whole bunch of insulting responses including being called luddites, being told that we are going to die if we don’t use discs, being told we are inadequate because we don’t use discs, etc. The question wasn’t “are rim brakes better?” or “are disc brakes bad?” There really was no need for disc brake users to even respond other then to stir the pot.
JohnDThompson has a valid point. Far too much is made out of rim wear. In my own personal experience…40 bikes over 40 to 45 years including mountain biking for most or all of that…I’ve replaced only 3 or 4 rims due to wear. In my experience at the local co-op (15 years of at least once a week volunteering and working on upwards of 20,000 bikes as well as donation take in), I seldom run across a rim that is worn out. I won’t say never but worn rims with visible cupping of the brake surface is a rare event, maybe 1 out of every 100 to 300 wheels.
01-10-23, 10:49 AM
#277
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 5,384
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2736 Post(s)
Liked 2,978 Times
in
1,865 Posts
I wasn't talking about the more sensible guys like you. My comments were aimed squarely at those who think disc brakes are most definitely a major downgrade, orchestrated entirely by Big Bike marketing to fool the less clever folk into buying a whole new bike.
Likes For PeteHski:
01-10-23, 10:51 AM
#278
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bastrop Texas
Posts: 3,829
Bikes: Univega, Peu P6, Peu PR-10, Ted Williams, Peu UO-8, Peu UO-18 Mixte, Peu Dolomites
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 688 Post(s)
Liked 1,144 Times
in
739 Posts
Or Tubeless Tires
Or Brifters
Or... Well now... Let me think... Ha, I take it back. I may not need them but they sure must be nice ta have...
__________________
No matter where your at... There you are... Δf:=f(1/2)-f(-1/2)
Last edited by zandoval; 01-10-23 at 11:07 AM.
Likes For zandoval:
01-10-23, 11:00 AM
#279
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 3,572
Bikes: 1989 Cinelli Supercorsa
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2139 Post(s)
Liked 1,743 Times
in
1,062 Posts
I love that my admission of experience (do you know exactly how much experience I have? And what that experience might be?), is such a bone of contention in this thread, And that you can't seem to let go of it as your main focus of argument! Again, it seems that's all you got.
01-10-23, 11:09 AM
#280
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,854
Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3204 Post(s)
Liked 5,749 Times
in
2,315 Posts
I love that my admission of experience (do you know exactly how much experience I have? And what that experience might be?), is such a bone of contention in this thread, And that you can't seem to let go of it as your main focus of argument! Again, it seems that's all you got.
01-10-23, 11:20 AM
#281
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 7,082
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6367 Post(s)
Liked 9,856 Times
in
4,236 Posts
I love that my admission of experience (do you know exactly how much experience I have? And what that experience might be?), is such a bone of contention in this thread, And that you can't seem to let go of it as your main focus of argument! Again, it seems that's all you got.
It was your admitted lack of experience along with your several inaccurate claims about disc brakes, which have been quoted several times already. (So I won't bother doing it again.)
You remind me of a mother-in-law I once had, who exclaimed that The Simpsons is just an awful, awful television show. When I asked how many episodes she'd seen, she replied, "None! Why would I watch such a stupid program?"
01-10-23, 11:23 AM
#282
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 3,572
Bikes: 1989 Cinelli Supercorsa
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2139 Post(s)
Liked 1,743 Times
in
1,062 Posts
You're half way there.
It was your admitted lack of experience along with your several inaccurate claims about disc brakes, which have been quoted several times already. (So I won't bother doing it again.)
You remind me of a mother-in-law I once had, who exclaimed that The Simpsons is just an awful, awful television show. When I asked how many episodes she'd seen, she replied, "None! Why would I watch such a stupid program?"
It was your admitted lack of experience along with your several inaccurate claims about disc brakes, which have been quoted several times already. (So I won't bother doing it again.)
You remind me of a mother-in-law I once had, who exclaimed that The Simpsons is just an awful, awful television show. When I asked how many episodes she'd seen, she replied, "None! Why would I watch such a stupid program?"
01-10-23, 11:29 AM
#283
Habitual User
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Altadena, CA
Posts: 5,581
Bikes: 2019 Trek Procliber 9.9 SL, 2018 Storck Fascenario.3 Platinum, 2017 Bear Big Rock 1, 2003 Time VX Special Pro, 2001 Colnago VIP, 1999 Trek 9900 singlespeed, 1977 Nishiki ONP
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3426 Post(s)
Liked 5,484 Times
in
2,597 Posts
I love that my admission of experience (do you know exactly how much experience I have? And what that experience might be?), is such a bone of contention in this thread, And that you can't seem to let go of it as your main focus of argument! Again, it seems that's all you got.
__________________
"Swedish fish. They're protein shaped." - livedarklions
"Swedish fish. They're protein shaped." - livedarklions
Likes For Eric F:
01-10-23, 11:41 AM
#285
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 7,082
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6367 Post(s)
Liked 9,856 Times
in
4,236 Posts
And he may not need better braking than he's already getting from rim brakes. But that's a separate matter from posting a bunch of inaccurate and uninformed opinions about disc brakes.
01-10-23, 11:48 AM
#287
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 7,082
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6367 Post(s)
Liked 9,856 Times
in
4,236 Posts
And this is what bf has come to: arguments about disc vs rim brakes, and hookers in Dubai.
It was inevitable.
It was inevitable.
01-10-23, 12:03 PM
#289
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,854
Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3204 Post(s)
Liked 5,749 Times
in
2,315 Posts
01-10-23, 12:04 PM
#290
Habitual User
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Altadena, CA
Posts: 5,581
Bikes: 2019 Trek Procliber 9.9 SL, 2018 Storck Fascenario.3 Platinum, 2017 Bear Big Rock 1, 2003 Time VX Special Pro, 2001 Colnago VIP, 1999 Trek 9900 singlespeed, 1977 Nishiki ONP
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3426 Post(s)
Liked 5,484 Times
in
2,597 Posts
Likes For Eric F:
01-10-23, 12:05 PM
#291
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: In the foothills of Los Angeles County
Posts: 22,573
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6560 Post(s)
Liked 6,644 Times
in
3,350 Posts
I'm over 200 pounds and do a lot of mountainous riding.
I have been with riders twice when the brake track blew off their front rims. The first one I was close and it was quite loud. I have seen other rims with the brake track collapsed.
When I used rim brakes on my mtb I rode in the wet a lot and I could tell when the front rim was gone because there would be a bad low spot which would thump through the bars when braking. I wore out several rims on rim braked mountain bikes.
I'm not anti-rim brakes, both my road bikes have them. There are times when I wish for something stronger, however.
01-10-23, 12:13 PM
#292
Sunshine
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 15,601
Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo
Mentioned: 120 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9990 Post(s)
Liked 6,386 Times
in
3,644 Posts
Member when someone claimed disc brakes will create imbalance due to weight on the left side of the bike, all the while ignoring the reality that rim brake bikes have chainrings, cassette, derailleurs, and chain on the right side?
Likes For mstateglfr:
01-10-23, 12:25 PM
#293
Senior Member
Wow... lots of shaming of rim brake proponents here. Not a very inclusive discussion.
Rim brake proponents are being called out for being:
Rim brake proponents are being called out for being:
- Luddites (anti-tech)
- Inexperienced (with new tech)
- C&V fans (worst than Luddites)
- Conspiracy theorists (stick it to the man!)
- Delusional
- Etc.
- It is a lot lighter, particularly due to the frame and fork design that doesn't have to support disc-brake forces
- The wheels are lighter, due to not having to deal with greater braking forces.
- The rim-brake forks are more compliant, due to not having to be bulked up for disc braking forces
- Rim brake wheels are more aero
- Rim brakes don't slice you or your pals in a crash
- Rim brakes are cheaper and a lot easier to work on.
01-10-23, 12:29 PM
#294
Mad bike riding scientist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 26,324
Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
Mentioned: 142 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5557 Post(s)
Liked 3,235 Times
in
1,889 Posts
I made a mistake and misread the spec page. That’s the cost for an XT build (Moots mountaineer YBB). Sorry. I can’t find just the bare frame on Moots page but Adrenaline Bikes sells the bare frame for about $4600. That’s not for a custom build. I’m off by around $4000 but at $4600 that’s still a fair amount of change to drop to get a disc ready frame.
That also doesn’t take into account all the other things I’d have to buy because, being the luddite I am, my current bike is a 135mm OLD 26” wheeled bike. I’d still be looking at about $8000 to make my current out of date…but perfectly adequate…YBB disc ready. I don’t consider that worth the cost just so that I can be “modern”.
That also doesn’t take into account all the other things I’d have to buy because, being the luddite I am, my current bike is a 135mm OLD 26” wheeled bike. I’d still be looking at about $8000 to make my current out of date…but perfectly adequate…YBB disc ready. I don’t consider that worth the cost just so that I can be “modern”.
__________________
Stuart Black
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Days of Wineless Roads. Bed and Breakfasting along the KATY
Twisting Down the Alley. Misadventures in tornado alley.
Stuart Black
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Days of Wineless Roads. Bed and Breakfasting along the KATY
Twisting Down the Alley. Misadventures in tornado alley.
Likes For cyccommute:
01-10-23, 12:42 PM
#295
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 7,082
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6367 Post(s)
Liked 9,856 Times
in
4,236 Posts
01-10-23, 12:42 PM
#296
Mad bike riding scientist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 26,324
Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
Mentioned: 142 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5557 Post(s)
Liked 3,235 Times
in
1,889 Posts
drz400 is a newbie with twelve posts! That’s not many posts for someone who you label a troll. His questions might be a bit naive but I don’t see them as particularly controversial.
__________________
Stuart Black
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Days of Wineless Roads. Bed and Breakfasting along the KATY
Twisting Down the Alley. Misadventures in tornado alley.
Stuart Black
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Days of Wineless Roads. Bed and Breakfasting along the KATY
Twisting Down the Alley. Misadventures in tornado alley.
01-10-23, 12:43 PM
#297
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,854
Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3204 Post(s)
Liked 5,749 Times
in
2,315 Posts
"It’s the most secure braking system, whether it rains or not. Whether you have carbon or aluminium rims, it doesn’t change anything."
"Carbon rims are very good when dry, but terrible when wet."
"If I was a pro, I’d have disc brakes. It works."
"Technically it has a lot of advantages."
Likes For tomato coupe:
01-10-23, 12:43 PM
#298
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 7,082
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6367 Post(s)
Liked 9,856 Times
in
4,236 Posts
Likes For Koyote:
01-10-23, 12:47 PM
#299
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,854
Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3204 Post(s)
Liked 5,749 Times
in
2,315 Posts
01-10-23, 12:48 PM
#300
QR-disc must die!!!
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Shenandoah Valley, Northern Virginia.
Posts: 703
Bikes: '99 Trek 520, '20 Kona Sutra (FOR SALE 48cm), '21 Simon-Bikes mini-velo and a chromoly-framed folding bicycle with drop-bars and V-brakes, that rolls even while folded.
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 396 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 196 Times
in
144 Posts
Until thru-axle becomes ubiquitous, I'm sticking w/rim-brakes. That said, rim-brakes have their own good qualities outright. So, yes, I'll be keeping mine. If I get a custom-made frameset that's meant to be light in weight, it will be rim-brake only (not even thru-axle).
