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Anyone else keeping their rim brake frames ?

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Anyone else keeping their rim brake frames ?

Old 01-12-23, 04:27 PM
  #476  
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Originally Posted by veganbikes
Older bikes can be quite a bit more interesting, then "wow you have an aero frame that looks like the other aero frames so cool". I have had a few customers who had some really interesting stuff either full vintage or with some interesting vintage parts come through and they were excited because I recognized what they had and other shops brushed them off or told them to get something new. It is really a shame that people brushed off a cool mixte modern mixte (i think made by Brian Chapman) with some vintage T.A. cranks and Simplex derailleur or that Girvin ProFlex or vintage steel MTB with full Deore Deerhead which by today's standards look like a wally-mart huffy but is actually a top end mountain bike who's maker I cannot remember.
That guy is a true artisan.
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Old 01-12-23, 04:33 PM
  #477  
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Originally Posted by Koyote
That guy is a true artisan.
Hummunuh hummunuh hummunuh Totally modern tons of vintage works so well. It is hard to pull that off so well.
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Old 01-12-23, 06:40 PM
  #478  
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Originally Posted by drz400
Maybe I'm just cheap and won't pay the price but I don't get paid to ride so I'm keeping my rim brakes. Anyone else out there or am I just an old fossil ?
I have so much money invested in rim bike frames it doesn't make sense to switch. I would have to sell some very nice bikes to afford one nice disc bike.
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Old 01-12-23, 07:34 PM
  #479  
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Originally Posted by Eric F
My rides alternate randomly between a road bike with caliper brakes, a gravel bike with disc brakes, a MTB with disc brakes, and a MTB with v-brakes. The time it takes to adapt to the different brake feels is less than it took you to read this sentence. Way less.
Then you’re obviously an unwashed heathen; a sophisticated cyclist would find the flywheel effect of those massive brake rotors impossible to ignore, provided you can even keep it upright with all that hardware hanging off the left side.

I think you need to evaluate the crispness of your sock lines.
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Old 01-13-23, 12:05 AM
  #480  
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Originally Posted by Schweinhund
You are mistaken. The only thing I hold in high reguard is his intelligence. Other than that, I don't know him. He is a smart person, and that can't be faked.
He's an azzhole, but so am I. How do I hold that against him?
You on the other hand, are arrogant. Arrogance is not seen as intelligence, rather the lack thereof.
So let me get this straight. Your contrubution to the discussion (which is about bikes, and brakes and stuff) was basically:

"Do you have any idea who you're talking to? He's got real smarts, you stoopid!"

Cool cool cool cool! No doubt no doubt no doubt...

I'll just leave this apt quote here

As a general statement, dumb people fool other dumb people all the time.
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Old 01-13-23, 01:33 AM
  #481  
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney
The playground arguments continue.

One of my criteria for brakes is how much control do I have when I suddenly see I need to be going 15 mph slower than I am going. Example - coming down from McKenzie Pass to Sisters, OR. The first several miles had been fast, fun sweeping turns and not an issue on my 42-13 geared fix gear. Then I came to a much sharper turn right after the road dropped so I saw no advance warning. No way were my pedals clearing. I grabbed both brakes and squeezed. Hard! Full on adrenaline.

I had absolutely no time to think about doing that braking gracefully or carefully. Now this was first spring on my avatar bike that I had equipped with nice Shimano dual pivots, KoolStops and some levers with really big, comfortable, super climbing hoods/handles. Figured out as I was installing them and seeing the odd cable routing that they must be V-brake levers. Hmmph. Well I went with them anyway. Got used to the new feel; much less lever travel but the force modulation was excellent although braking from the hoods was less effective. (That was never my go to in situations where hard stopping might be needed,.)

Well, that additional required braking power? Bailed me out! Bike just slowed very fast with no skidding, no wheel hop. In fact with nothing exciting happening at all. And I went around that corner with pedal clearance to spare. Boring. Since then I have put V-brake levers on my namesake Mooney with its excellent cantis and my best geared bike with its dual pivots. Both bikes that have seen big time descents. And wow! do I love those brakes going down paved roads I've never seen before. My two city bikes stay regular levers for their Mafacs for their wet weather stopping (and Mafacs were always very predictable hard stoppers with enough "squish" to haunt anyone who fears cable stretch). I use regular levers on my two setups with old-school (but pretty decent) sidepulls. (Short reach Superbe and very short reach Cyclone.)
I think McKenzie Pass is more fun going the other way (Up from Sisters, down the other side. Talk about long sweeping curves! No problem riding within the speed of the cars. I've gone both ways.
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Old 01-13-23, 04:49 AM
  #482  
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Originally Posted by Schweinhund
The only thing I hold in high reguard is his intelligence. Other than that, I don't know him. He is a smart person, and that can't be faked.
I'm curious what makes you think he's intelligent and smart?
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Old 01-13-23, 04:53 AM
  #483  
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Originally Posted by genejockey
I am constantly amazed by how many posts on BF boil down to "Any technological innovations in bicycles after (insert year) are useless frippery and anyone who spends money on them 1) is a pawn of Big Bike or 2) thinks they're a pro, while by contrast I don't often see posts that say "Any bicycle without the latest technological innovations is a useless toy and anyone who owns such is not A Serious Cyclist".

Why do you suppose that is?
This was basically the observation I made a few pages back. It stands out to me like dog's balls on a cat, except to the deluded few.
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Old 01-13-23, 05:02 AM
  #484  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute

Yes, I know there is some flex in the cables but that’s not a bad thing in my opinion. One of the problems I had with hydraulics was the lack of that flex. The brakes were on or off with nothing in between. With cables, that flex results in some fine control…modulation if you like…of the raw power.
I know this is just your opinion, but it is misguided. Any redundant flex (i.e. excess lever movement that isn't producing any actual braking force) in the braking system will reduce your fine control. If your brakes were on/off, it was for another unrelated reason.
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Old 01-13-23, 07:26 AM
  #485  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
I know this is just your opinion, but it is misguided.
His opinion is "misguided?" Seriously? Let me say that again: His...OPINION.
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Old 01-13-23, 07:28 AM
  #486  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
I'm curious what makes you think he's intelligent and smart?
Isn't it obvious?
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Old 01-13-23, 07:55 AM
  #487  
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Originally Posted by smd4
His opinion is "misguided?" Seriously? Let me say that again: His...OPINION.
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Old 01-13-23, 08:26 AM
  #488  
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Originally Posted by Koyote
Incorrect. They also allow the easier use of wider tires, and are especially convenient on fendered bikes.
I would consider neither of these a benefit.
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Old 01-13-23, 08:38 AM
  #489  
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Originally Posted by smd4
I would consider neither of these a benefit.
So disc brakes are pointless because you don’t benefit from them.

That’s some iron-clad logic!
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Old 01-13-23, 09:03 AM
  #490  
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Originally Posted by Koyote
So disc brakes are pointless because you don’t benefit from them.

That’s some iron-clad logic!
Man, nice! Talk about a complete logical fallacy! Mostly because I wrote NONE of that!
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Old 01-13-23, 09:10 AM
  #491  
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer
Well, at least with dork discs you didn't have to spend an hour removing pads, sanding rotors and degreasing everything every time you accidentally touched your rotors with greasy paws.
7 disc brake bikes in my garage and I've never had to do this ever. That's even after accidentally getting chain lube on the rotor. Just ride and it burns off.

Last edited by prj71; 01-13-23 at 10:34 AM.
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Old 01-13-23, 09:20 AM
  #492  
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Originally Posted by smd4
His opinion is "misguided?" Seriously? Let me say that again: His...OPINION.
So if you have an opinion, it must be correct? Is that what you are trying to say?
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Old 01-13-23, 09:21 AM
  #493  
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Originally Posted by smd4
Isn't it obvious?
Not to me. I was thinking the exact opposite.
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Old 01-13-23, 09:31 AM
  #494  
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Originally Posted by Koyote
So disc brakes are pointless because you don’t benefit from them.

That’s some iron-clad logic!
Originally Posted by PeteHski
So if you have an opinion, it must be correct? Is that what you are trying to say?
I didn't think it was humanly possible to misconstrue simple sentences so badly. I stand corrected!

Even I can admit when I'm wrong!
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Old 01-13-23, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by smd4
Even I can admit when I'm wrong!
If you could, you’d be very busy.
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Old 01-13-23, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Koyote
If you could, you’d be very busy.
HA! Good one! Let me wipe the tear away from my eye...
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Old 01-13-23, 10:13 AM
  #497  
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Originally Posted by smd4
I didn't think it was humanly possible to misconstrue simple sentences so badly. I stand corrected!

Even I can admit when I'm wrong!
Not sure if this is funny or sad. Maybe both.
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Old 01-14-23, 01:37 AM
  #498  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute
Got news for you buckaroo, people were doing downhill and enduro long before the advent of hub mounted disc brakes…and dual suspension for that matter. And before the advent of front suspension as well.. They were scary fast. Brakes aren’t the limiting factor on downhill or enduro.
They were doing that yes. But they were nowhere as fast as today's riders. Of course courses have also evolved some as trailbuilding has picked up, but dual suspension long travel allows you to hit larger bumps faster and you have a lot more braking and cornering traction.


Yes, I know there is some flex in the cables but that’s not a bad thing in my opinion. One of the problems I had with hydraulics was the lack of that flex. The brakes were on or off with nothing in between. With cables, that flex results in some fine control…modulation if you like…of the raw power.
this was pretty well refuted by peterhski so I'll just agree with what he said.

I have spent far too much time hitting the ground after braking on ice to do something as dumb as try to do “maximal braking” on ice. That’s not a place were I even touch the front brake because I know that I will end up on the ground…again! Slipping, traction, slipping is completely unnecessary on ice. For the most part “maximal braking” is mostly unnecessary except in panic situations and even those are very rare.
If you don't brake on ice here you don't ride. But it was a bit of a test about how far I could push the bike and myself. Pretty far it seems.

But with some of our steeper MUP's it is indeed necessary to toe the line of traction when it's icy. Kt's that, overspeeding or walking.


​​​​​​​Yet again, I don’t find any relatively modern brake system requiring anything I would label excessive force nor do I find them “inaccurate” how ever you want to use that rather ill-defined term. Do you mean that you can stop closer to a certain point? Or that you can more accurately control speed? Neither of which I’ve found to be a problem with mechanical disc or mechanical rim brakes nor something I’ve found to be better with hydraulics. I can stop my bikes where I need to and I can control my speed where I need to.
Less accurate doesn't directly implicate inaccurate.

What I mean with accuracy is the ability to apply desired amount of deceleration at the desired time and for desired duration. The less accurate the brake system, more difficult it gets to do hard pulsed staccato brakings.

One such situation is our sheer rock hills where you'll have hundreds of meters of rolling smoothish granite shaped by glaciers and oceans of old. During the winter numerous water streams freeze on the surface creating canted downhill trails where you have areas of massive grip and areas of absolutely no traction. Braking on canted ice will launch a tire even if it was coated with chainsaw blades. When you get those frozen streams every two meters or so you want to be really good at brake pulsing or you'll go down or overspeed and have a bad time at the bottom.

the second example is technical downhills. As I mentioned earlier, we don't have trail management as we don't really have dedicated mtb-trails. Ie.
we don't have flow trails. All of our trails are technical. braking against a rock will stick the bike and throw you over the bars. Braking over a diagonal damp root will launch the front tire to space. So you'll really be only able to brake on the smooth spots, of which there aren't many and all of which are small.

Of course speed corrects all errors, but if there's a hairpin etc. at the bottom I don't want to hit that full speed.

​​​​​​​As for force required, care to provide a source for you claims?
If brakes are touchy, doesn't that by definition mean that they're more powerful?


​​​​​​​Now it’s my turn to claim you stopped reading. I don’t need…nor do most other cyclists need…maximal braking power in all situations. They don’t need maximal braking power in many situations. And, even in those situations where maximal braking is required, most any brake system is up to the task. You have even addressed the problem I have with your “half a finger” braking need when you said
I may have addressed this above.

​​​​​​​That says to me that your brakes are rather touchy and you have to “think” about using them. For those rare occasions where you do need to use brakes in panic stops, having to stop and think about how to apply the brakes increases reaction time which isn’t optimal.
That's not what I meant though. The GRX's are the first road brakes I've used where I've felt that getting over the bars would be even possible. That, I think should be the minimum requirement. Not even avid bb7's with 203mm rotors could do that.

​​​​​​​The trailer problem isn’t due to the brakes…at least not entirely. The problem is due to adding an unbraked mass to they system that lifts the front wheel and pushes the bike in direction that are difficult to anticipate. Trailers would be slightly better if they had their own brakes.
They would be, but that's add even more weight to them. And more stuff to fix and maintain. But this wasn't an issue of front wheel wandering. It was just not having enough stopping power so I was in danger of overshooting a corner.


​​​​​​​That’s a bet that you would lose. I’m solidly in the Clydesdale territory. When bikepacking (not road touring), I’m dragging (as opposed to pushing) over 140 kg with rider, bike, and gear. I hurtle down dirt road mountain passes from 12,000 feet (3600+ m) to 9500 feet (2900 m) over 5 miles or an average 9% grade. I use my brakes a lot on that kind of drop…in short bursts…but my arms weren’t particularly shot at the bottom. They are far more tired because of the jolting of the terrain than due to braking.
if we had such elevation with our terrain and trails, coming down 3500 meters would take all day. Very little hurtling would be done. Seriously my road avg speed is 30kph but my offroad speed on our trails even when they're smoothed by snow in less than 10kph.


​​​​​​​Again, the point is that they used the same language as is still used to describe hydraulics. It’s not something I experienced with the Avids nor with anything I’ve tested since. I don’t find hydraulics to be confidence inspiring…just the opposite…I have to think about braking and how to do it. Not something that I think about with mechanical disc or mechanical rim.
I've used hydraulic brakes for 15 years now and during that time they've gotten markedly better.


​​​​​​​I regularly exceed 25mph on dirt downhills. On smoother dirt, I can exceed 35mph on a mountain bike…loaded or unloaded. My brakes are good enough in my mind to be up to the speed and aren’t the limiting factor in how fast I go.
I don't see how peak speeds are relevant.
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Old 01-14-23, 01:42 AM
  #499  
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........wow..its gets mean in here..lots of touchy ego's..
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Old 01-16-23, 01:53 AM
  #500  
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I have a mix of bikes with one having drum brakes front and rear.The last time I rode that bike going down a hill trying to stop was an experience I won’t soon forget.Definitely made my rim brake bikes seem high tech in the stopping department.
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