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Anyone else keeping their rim brake frames ?

Old 01-23-23, 11:24 AM
  #601  
big john
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Originally Posted by Eric F View Post
I rode a bike with disc brakes this weekend. The brakes worked really well. They slowed me when I needed to go slower, and stopped me when I needed to stop. I also rode a bike with rim brakes this weekend. The brakes worked really well. They slowed me when I needed to go slower, and stopped me when I needed to stop. I'm keeping both bikes because they're excellent bikes, and bikes are awesome.
What a coincidence, I did the same thing. Rim brake Saturday and disc Sunday. And I don't want to argue about brakes afterward.
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Old 01-23-23, 12:31 PM
  #602  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
The consensus on what type of brakes all cyclists should use has not been reached yet, The debate continues...Hopefully by 50 pages we'll have a definitive answer.
Originally Posted by big john View Post
If not, maybe in the next rim vs disc thread. Or the one after that.
Disc brakes are going to win this argument. A given. Might take 10 more threads and a couple thousand posts but we rim-brakers are going to die eventually. Next generation will have far fewer and those genes will be close to gone in two.

Now, 100 years from now, some bright whiz might discover a really light, simple braking system that put no load on those fork blades Maybe market them as "Integral Discs" (using the rim itself as maximum diameter discs; enabling smaller braking forces to be used). These wheels would enable lighter, springier, nicer riding forks. Faster, easier wheel changes. Come up with a cool brand name. Advertise it as lighter, more aero, better ride. Of course, they'll cost more but prices will come down when Alibaba gets involved.
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Old 01-23-23, 12:42 PM
  #603  
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post

Now, 100 years from now, some bright whiz might discover a really light, simple braking system that put no load on those fork blades Maybe market them as "Integral Discs" (using the rim itself as maximum diameter discs; enabling smaller braking forces to be used). These wheels would enable lighter, springier, nicer riding forks. Faster, easier wheel changes. Come up with a cool brand name. Advertise it as lighter, more aero, better ride. Of course, they'll cost more but prices will come down when Alibaba gets involved.
Can the thread sink any lower?
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Old 01-23-23, 12:51 PM
  #604  
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
Now, 100 years from now, some bright whiz might discover a really light, simple braking system that put no load on those fork blades Maybe market them as "Integral Discs" (using the rim itself as maximum diameter discs; enabling smaller braking forces to be used). These wheels would enable lighter, springier, nicer riding forks. Faster, easier wheel changes. Come up with a cool brand name. Advertise it as lighter, more aero, better ride. Of course, they'll cost more but prices will come down when Alibaba gets involved.
Oh look, the 'rim is just a giant disc brake' argument...again. It sucked the first time, but maybe itll be good now!
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Old 01-23-23, 12:51 PM
  #605  
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I hardly need discs for variety. My 6 bikes sport 4 different systems of caliper and several of those are products of mixing systems and standards.

My two winter/rain/city bikes - Mafac RACER fronts, Weinmann rears, regular Tektro levers.
My Mooney - Cantis and V-brake Tektro levers
Pro Miyata - Cycone sidepulls, regular Tekrto levers
TiCycles (geared) Shimano dual pivots, V-brake Tektro levers
TiCycles fix gear (two cockpits and calipers)
Shimano dual pivots, V-brake Tektro levers on deep pista bars (a wonderful fix gear climbing setup)
SunTour Superbe side pulls, regular Tektro levers on regular drop bars - the "road" setup and classic race

That last bike, the TiCycles fix gear of my avatar photo and its "swapable cockpits" - a fun advantage of caliper brakes (if you skip that brifter or shifting on the handlebars stuff): Swapping cockpits on that bike takes 5 minutes. Detach rear brake cable. Remove both calipers. Pull stem. (It's a quill. One easy bolt. No torque wrench required.) Reverse process. Done. And it is now a very different bike.
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Old 01-23-23, 12:53 PM
  #606  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
Oh look, the 'rim is just a giant disc brake' argument...again. It sucked the first time, but maybe itll be good now!
Not now! That's gonna take a full 100 year fermentation. I won't live to see it or hold my breath.
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Old 01-23-23, 01:02 PM
  #607  
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
Disc brakes are going to win this argument. A given. Might take 10 more threads and a couple thousand posts but we rim-brakers are going to die eventually. Next generation will have far fewer and those genes will be close to gone in two.

Now, 100 years from now, some bright whiz might discover a really light, simple braking system that put no load on those fork blades Maybe market them as "Integral Discs" (using the rim itself as maximum diameter discs; enabling smaller braking forces to be used). These wheels would enable lighter, springier, nicer riding forks. Faster, easier wheel changes. Come up with a cool brand name. Advertise it as lighter, more aero, better ride. Of course, they'll cost more but prices will come down when Alibaba gets involved.
Let's start a thread about it.
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Old 01-23-23, 01:16 PM
  #608  
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
Not now! That's gonna take a full 100 year fermentation. I won't live to see it or hold my breath.
You won't live to see it because it will never happen. But I don't think rim brakes will completely disappear either. Not in the sort of timescale that really matters anyway.
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Old 01-23-23, 01:21 PM
  #609  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
You won't live to see it because it will never happen. But I don't think rim brakes will completely disappear either. Not in the sort of timescale that really matters anyway.
Of course not, and the C&V folks will make sure of it.
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Old 01-23-23, 01:41 PM
  #610  
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The just say No to road disc folks here are being disparaged as being luddites, anti-progress, anti-technology etc. Unfair characterizations. We are not anti-tech, but anti-tech that is heavy, fussy, and unnecessary. As in discs on road bikes.

Again, we're not talking about mountain bikes, or touring bikes, or commuting in the rain bikes, where discs are highly desirable. We're talking about go-fast bikes, in which weight, especially rotational weight is the key differentiator of performance. Performance being measured as the ability to not be dropped off the back out of the corners or on hills. Or, even better the ability to shed stragglers off of the back through accelerations.

So there is a quick guide to desirable vs. undesirable tech for go-fast bikes, regardless of vintage:
Good:
  • Carbon (for almost everything)
  • Electronic shifting
  • Clipless pedals
  • 2 x drivetrains
  • Tubular rims and tires (lighter, stronger, safer)
Not good:
  • Discs (heavy, fussy, and unnecessary)
  • Fat tires >25mm (we're not mountain biking on the road. Fat tires are heavy, high rolling resistance and un-aero)
  • Tubeless (unless you live in goathead land, or you don't know how to field fix a flat)
  • 1 x drivetrains (Why why why????)
You are welcome.
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Old 01-23-23, 01:43 PM
  #611  
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
Disc brakes are going to win this argument. A given. Might take 10 more threads and a couple thousand posts but we rim-brakers are going to die eventually. Next generation will have far fewer and those genes will be close to gone in two.

Now, 100 years from now, some bright whiz might discover a really light, simple braking system that put no load on those fork blades Maybe market them as "Integral Discs" (using the rim itself as maximum diameter discs; enabling smaller braking forces to be used). These wheels would enable lighter, springier, nicer riding forks. Faster, easier wheel changes. Come up with a cool brand name. Advertise it as lighter, more aero, better ride. Of course, they'll cost more but prices will come down when Alibaba gets involved.
Maybe that new bike will have tubulars as well! But first we should see the resurgence of the Flying Pigeon PA-02, rod brakes and all, as a indication the the tide is about to change.
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Old 01-23-23, 01:48 PM
  #612  
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer View Post
Again, we're not talking about mountain bikes, or touring bikes, or commuting in the rain bikes, where discs are highly desirable. We're talking about go-fast bikes, in which weight, especially rotational weight is the key differentiator of performance. Performance being measured as the ability to not be dropped off the back out of the corners or on hills. Or, even better the ability to shed stragglers off of the back through accelerations.
Perhaps you can share with the class your calculation of how much disc rotors add to the moment of inertia of a set of wheels, and how much that affects acceleration out of a corner?
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Old 01-23-23, 01:57 PM
  #613  
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer View Post
The just say No to road disc folks here are being disparaged as being luddites, anti-progress, anti-technology etc. Unfair characterizations. We are not anti-tech, but anti-tech that is heavy, fussy, and unnecessary. As in discs on road bikes.

Again, we're not talking about mountain bikes, or touring bikes, or commuting in the rain bikes, where discs are highly desirable. We're talking about go-fast bikes, in which weight, especially rotational weight is the key differentiator of performance. Performance being measured as the ability to not be dropped off the back out of the corners or on hills. Or, even better the ability to shed stragglers off of the back through accelerations.

So there is a quick guide to desirable vs. undesirable tech for go-fast bikes, regardless of vintage:
Good:
  • Carbon (for almost everything)
  • Electronic shifting
  • Clipless pedals
  • 2 x drivetrains
  • Tubular rims and tires (lighter, stronger, safer)
Not good:
  • Discs (heavy, fussy, and unnecessary)
  • Fat tires >25mm (we're not mountain biking on the road. Fat tires are heavy, high rolling resistance and un-aero)
  • Tubeless (unless you live in goathead land, or you don't know how to field fix a flat)
  • 1 x drivetrains (Why why why????)
You are welcome.
I hope you are sharing all of your wisdom with World Tour pro teams. I'm sure they would all be excited to have your secret recipe for fast bikes.
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Old 01-23-23, 02:06 PM
  #614  
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer View Post
You are welcome.
And, with that, the thread starts over.
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Old 01-23-23, 02:50 PM
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I guess some are passionate about something, whatever that is.

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Old 01-23-23, 02:53 PM
  #616  
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Originally Posted by Eric F View Post
I hope you are sharing all of your wisdom with World Tour pro teams. I'm sure they would all be excited to have your secret recipe for fast bikes.
I'm sure that all the sponsors, with millions on the line allow themselves to be dictated to by Big Disc, and Big Fat Tubeless, and that's why all the pro tour riders are now -(checks notes)- faster than ever.

Hey, wait a minute...
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Old 01-23-23, 02:56 PM
  #617  
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Originally Posted by big john View Post
And, with that, the thread starts over.
Ouroboros.
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Old 01-23-23, 03:11 PM
  #618  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
Perhaps you can share with the class your calculation of how much disc rotors add to the moment of inertia of a set of wheels, and how much that affects acceleration out of a corner?
Rotors, + stronger spokes and rims that can handle the bigger spoke loads. I raced 290 gm rims laced with 15-17 (~1.8-1.6mm) spokes (and 250 or
less gm sewups). More than once I made breaks that took everything I had. Would I have made it with wheels a touch heavier? I'll never know. But being able to close that gap by being maybe 12" closer meant that I beat the guy behind me by 10 minutes.

My fasted, hardest race the group I stayed in broke the course record (set by an animal some of you have heard of). The deciding climb was absolutely the hardest thing I have ever done. That race - 220 gm silks and a 250 gm front rim. (Same spokes.)
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Old 01-23-23, 03:13 PM
  #619  
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Originally Posted by genejockey View Post
I'm sure that all the sponsors, with millions on the line allow themselves to be dictated to by Big Disc, and Big Fat Tubeless, and that's why all the pro tour riders are now -(checks notes)- faster than ever.

Hey, wait a minute...
I was watching a GCN video this weekend showing some of this year's current World Tour bikes debuting at the Tour Down Under. Everyone is on 25s or 28s. Ineos is using 25 front and 28 rear. More and more teams are moving away from tubulars, and towards tubeless.

Obviously, those pro team managers and mechanics are idiots.
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Old 01-23-23, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Eric F View Post
I was watching a GCN video this weekend showing some of this year's current World Tour bikes debuting at the Tour Down Under. Everyone is on 25s or 28s. Ineos is using 25 front and 28 rear. More and more teams are moving away from tubulars, and towards tubeless.

Obviously, those pro team managers and mechanics are idiots.
Example: Mark Cavendish.

Riding for Astana this year, he rather obviously is going to try to win at least one more stage of the Tour. He is, however, doomed to fail because ... poor equipment choice. He is riding tubulars, but rather foolishly has opted for a bicycle with disc brakes (shock! horror!) and ... get this ... 28s!!!

Why on earth these so-called professional cyclists/team officials/mechanics don't consult the experts here on teh Biek Formz is utterly beyond me.
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Old 01-23-23, 03:31 PM
  #621  
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
Rotors, + stronger spokes and rims that can handle the bigger spoke loads. I raced 290 gm rims laced with 15-17 (~1.8-1.6mm) spokes (and 250 or
less gm sewups). More than once I made breaks that took everything I had. Would I have made it with wheels a touch heavier? I'll never know. But being able to close that gap by being maybe 12" closer meant that I beat the guy behind me by 10 minutes.

My fasted, hardest race the group I stayed in broke the course record (set by an animal some of you have heard of). The deciding climb was absolutely the hardest thing I have ever done. That race - 220 gm silks and a 250 gm front rim. (Same spokes.)
Do you ever wonder why those kinds of setups aren't used any more, and haven't been for a long time?
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Old 01-23-23, 04:01 PM
  #622  
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
Rotors, + stronger spokes and rims that can handle the bigger spoke loads. I raced 290 gm rims laced with 15-17 (~1.8-1.6mm) spokes (and 250 or
less gm sewups). More than once I made breaks that took everything I had. Would I have made it with wheels a touch heavier? I'll never know. But being able to close that gap by being maybe 12" closer meant that I beat the guy behind me by 10 minutes.

My fasted, hardest race the group I stayed in broke the course record (set by an animal some of you have heard of). The deciding climb was absolutely the hardest thing I have ever done. That race - 220 gm silks and a 250 gm front rim. (Same spokes.)
The assignment is to calculate how big the effect is. You can make approximations and use a simplified model, but the point is to estimate the effect.
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Old 01-23-23, 04:28 PM
  #623  
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Originally Posted by big john View Post
What a coincidence, I did the same thing. Rim brake Saturday and disc Sunday. And I don't want to argue about brakes afterward.
That is a very strange coincidence because i did exactly the same thing. On Saturday i did a ride on my bike with rim brakes and on Sunday I did a ride on my bike with disc brakes. Both brakes worked perfectly and I had no problem stopping.
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Old 01-23-23, 04:32 PM
  #624  
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post

Now, 100 years from now, some bright whiz might discover a really light, simple braking system
100 years from now humans won't be riding bicycles or participating in any activity which required physical effort. All those activities we're doing doing today will have become virtual reality.
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Old 01-23-23, 05:01 PM
  #625  
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Originally Posted by genejockey View Post
Ouroboros.
Had to Google that, not gonna lie. Apropos.
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