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Anyone else keeping their rim brake frames ?

Old 01-23-23, 05:06 PM
  #626  
Eric F 
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Originally Posted by big john
Had to Google that, not gonna lie. Apropos.
This ^^^
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Old 01-23-23, 05:36 PM
  #627  
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[QUOTE=Dave Mayer;22778494]The just say No to road disc folks here are being disparaged as being luddites, anti-progress, anti-technology etc. /QUOTE]

Show us one example from this thread of a poster calling 'road disc folks' any of those terms or synonyms for those terms. Seriously -- just quote one single example.
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Old 01-23-23, 06:03 PM
  #628  
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My touring bike even has…avert your eyes if you have a heart condition…CANTILEVERS!!!!
Cantilevers are sexy. They look like a string bikini....

I'm hanging on to my side-pulls and center-pulls while contemplating if I want to ride my disk brake bike today.
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Old 01-23-23, 06:34 PM
  #629  
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Originally Posted by Eric F
Do you ever wonder why those kinds of setups aren't used any more, and haven't been for a long time?
All matter of tire weight aside, I suspect the lighter aluminum rims wouldn't cope well with the high drive-side tension required with 9+ speed freehubs.
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Old 01-23-23, 06:47 PM
  #630  
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney

Now, 100 years from now, some bright whiz might discover a really light, simple braking system that put no load on those fork blades Maybe market them as "Integral Discs" (using the rim itself as maximum diameter discs; enabling smaller braking forces to be used). These wheels would enable lighter, springier, nicer riding forks. Faster, easier wheel changes. Come up with a cool brand name. Advertise it as lighter, more aero, better ride.
>Erik Buell has entered the chat

(if you know, you know)
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Old 01-23-23, 06:51 PM
  #631  
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Originally Posted by drlogik
Cantilevers are sexy. They look like a string bikini....
.
Low-angle cantis and 54's. I call it the "Jessica Rabbit" fitment.
You’re welcome


Last edited by Ironfish653; 01-24-23 at 02:49 AM.
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Old 01-23-23, 06:53 PM
  #632  
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Originally Posted by big john
Clearly if you are launching yourself over the bars you don't need stronger brakes,
"I told him not to assemble the dropper post backwards..."
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Old 01-23-23, 07:00 PM
  #633  
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Originally Posted by RCMoeur
"I told him not to assemble the dropper post backwards..."
Too much power.
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Old 01-23-23, 07:05 PM
  #634  
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer
The just say No to road disc folks here are being disparaged as being luddites, anti-progress, anti-technology etc. Unfair characterizations. We are not anti-tech, but anti-tech that is heavy, fussy, and unnecessary. As in discs on road bikes.

Again, we're not talking about mountain bikes, or touring bikes, or commuting in the rain bikes, where discs are highly desirable. We're talking about go-fast bikes, in which weight, especially rotational weight is the key differentiator of performance. Performance being measured as the ability to not be dropped off the back out of the corners or on hills. Or, even better the ability to shed stragglers off of the back through accelerations.

So there is a quick guide to desirable vs. undesirable tech for go-fast bikes, regardless of vintage:
Good:
  • Carbon (for almost everything)
  • Electronic shifting
  • Clipless pedals
  • 2 x drivetrains
  • Tubular rims and tires (lighter, stronger, safer)
Not good:
  • Discs (heavy, fussy, and unnecessary)
  • Fat tires >25mm (we're not mountain biking on the road. Fat tires are heavy, high rolling resistance and un-aero)
  • Tubeless (unless you live in goathead land, or you don't know how to field fix a flat)
  • 1 x drivetrains (Why why why????)
You are welcome.
My wife's 30 year old <14# bike with rim brakes. There is still not much that matches this ride.
There is no disc braked bike she prefers.
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Old 01-23-23, 07:08 PM
  #635  
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Originally Posted by Doge
My wife's 30 year old <14# bike with rim brakes.
Crank mfg?
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Old 01-23-23, 07:11 PM
  #636  
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Originally Posted by Koyote
What complete and utter drivel.

I've participated in more races than I can count, charity and other organized rides, group rides, etc...In at least a half dozen different states. I've seen riders on all sorts of bikes, wearing all sorts of clothes. And I've never seen nor heard anyone disparage another rider for their gear. Never.
That's nice. But I've had it occur to me several times.

Much of it happened in racing in the early 1980s. All I could afford at the time was a Centurion frame with eyelets, and then an upgrade to a beat-up decade-old Raleigh Pro frame with VX components, running salvaged high-flange Normandy hubs and a 5-speed freewheel. And yes, I had the jerks with their shiny Gioses and Rossins laugh at my "used touring bike" and "cheap-ass parts". I figured it was just them trying to get a psychological advantage in competition, or maybe they were a bit uneasy that I could hang with them on a bike 1/5 of what they paid, and in the ballpark in terms of weight and speed. But through those times I also had friends who supported my choices (and even borrowed my ultra-light wheels), and I found the guys who rode Superbe groups had no problem with the kid running VX - it's all part of the Suntour tribe. And in the ensuing 40+ years I've seen that ol' Raleigh Pro go from "What the hell is that?" to "Wow, look at that classic!"

But I've also experienced it recently in my own club. I've had riders (usually new riders or ones from different sub-groups) look at my bikes and trash-talk them, saying "I wouldn't be caught dead with something that heavy / colorful / etc." I just smile and remember that they're probably commenting from not being exposed to the full variety of capable bikes out there. I'm happy with my choices, and the words of others aren't going to change that.
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Old 01-23-23, 07:44 PM
  #637  
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boats

what ever floats your boat, or in this case spins your wheels , or in this case stops your wheels
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Old 01-23-23, 07:48 PM
  #638  
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But I've also experienced it recently in my own club. I've had riders (usually new riders or ones from different sub-groups) look at my bikes and trash-talk them, saying "I wouldn't be caught dead with something that heavy / colorful / etc."
I've been road riding for nearly 50 years, in many different ride situations, groups, caliber of riders, etc., and I've never encountered this. I also lived in Scottsdale and never encountered it...although when I rode over to Bike Haus and parked my fixed gear bike I got the "pffft" kind of look but when I rode my old Pinarello (with Campy Delta brakes) they all wanted to look at it. But that's a different story...

I wouldn't even know what to say to somebody that trashed by Wabi, or my 38 year old Pinarello or any of my other bikes. I would probably look straight into their eyes and laugh at them.
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Old 01-23-23, 08:03 PM
  #639  
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Originally Posted by drlogik
I also lived in Scottsdale and never encountered it...although when I rode over to Bike Haus and parked my fixed gear bike I got the "pffft" kind of look but when I rode my old Pinarello (with Campy Delta brakes) they all wanted to look at it. But that's a different story...

I wouldn't even know what to say to somebody that trashed by Wabi, or my 38 year old Pinarello or any of my other bikes. I would probably look straight into their eyes and laugh at them.
I've gotten that vibe from Bicycle Haus, but other people I know really like the place, so I don't judge. I do remember in the early 1990s shopping at Swiss-American with a friend looking for a road bike and being told loudly by the owner "You have NO IDEA what you are talking about!!" It was hard for either of us to keep a straight face while heading for the door, and we never went back.

My observation is the people recently giving me "unsolicited feedback" in the club seem to be opinionated on other topics as well, this possibly just being an extension of that behavior. And that the most capable riders out on the road seem to be the friendliest - they don't seem to have anything to prove. But I'm a traffic engineer, not a psychologist.
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Old 01-23-23, 08:04 PM
  #640  
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If I were to buy another road bike I would insist on hydraulic disk brakes. My regular local ride has quite long twisty downhill . My older Scott Speedster fades on that decent, whereas my hybrid does not with its mechanical disk brakes. I prefer to not balance brake fade with breakneck speed as on the rim brake bike.

Hands down the disks on the hybrid allows deeper braking before the turns without fade.

Not to drag off topic at all but this ..."1 x drivetrains (Why why why????)" Is it just me or do 1X drivetrains have tendency to drop the chain of the ft chainring in the taller gears on really bouncy downhill terrain ?!
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Old 01-23-23, 08:07 PM
  #641  
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer
The just say No to road disc folks here are being disparaged as being luddites, anti-progress, anti-technology etc. Unfair characterizations. We are not anti-tech, but anti-tech that is heavy, fussy, and unnecessary. As in discs on road bikes.
.
More like being disparaged for talking rubbish about modern bike tech, often with a cynical and condescending tone.

I donít honestly think anyone has a problem with people staying with rim brakes. Itís the nonsense a few of them talk about disc brakes that winds people up. The same people also like to talk bs about wide tubeless tyres. Itís pretty pathetic really.
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Old 01-23-23, 08:10 PM
  #642  
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Originally Posted by 2ndtimeAround

Not to drag off topic at all but this ..."1 x drivetrains (Why why why????)" Is it just me or do 1X drivetrains have tendency to drop the chain of the ft chainring in the taller gears on really bouncy downhill terrain ?!
Itís just you
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Old 01-23-23, 08:22 PM
  #643  
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Originally Posted by seypat
Serious question since I don't use discs. Can you use brake cleaner on bicycle disc rotors?
I haven't used brake cleaner in decades, never on a bicycle, but I would not see the harm. Just keep that stuff off the paint and even the clear coat on aluminum.
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Old 01-23-23, 08:30 PM
  #644  
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This was built last Spring, Weinmann cheap-o brakes from the Bay on a brand new Soma Pescadero. It might get an upgrade to Pauls Racer centerpulls.
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Old 01-23-23, 09:34 PM
  #645  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
Crank mfg?
I forgot. I'd remember if someone mentioned them. Note the pedal threads are not threaded through. I had to have 15mm flats milled on the DA pedals. Those are the lightest set of ready to ride (cassette, tubulars, glue, skewers) I know of @ 1370g and I got them to 1290g with those tires. Rims are 800 a pair I think. Hard to do that with discs.
I got a lot of grief about building too light when <13#, so I moved some of the lighter stuff to my kid's bike and got bigger tires. No flats in 3 years. So still <14# this config is about 5 years old - frame, seat post, cranks 30 years old.



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Old 01-23-23, 10:50 PM
  #646  
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer
Good:
  • Tubular rims and tires (lighter, stronger, safer)
Ö

Not good:
  • Tubeless (unless you live in goathead land, or you don't know how to field fix a flat)

Itís been a long time since Iíve ridden tubular tires. Please remind me how you ďfield fixĒ a flat. I seem to recall a need to haul around a complete tire. Iím happy to not have to do that any more.

Do you know whatís slower than a heavy tire? A flat one. If tubeless tires significantly reduce the amount of puncture flats, that means more winning opportunities not lost for racers, fewer group rides brought to an irritating halt, and I get home sooner (or get to ride longer) because Iím not wasting time on the side of the road, that sounds like a very good thing to me.
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Old 01-24-23, 01:04 AM
  #647  
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney
Rotors, + stronger spokes and rims that can handle the bigger spoke loads. I raced 290 gm rims laced with 15-17 (~1.8-1.6mm) spokes (and 250 or
less gm sewups). More than once I made breaks that took everything I had. Would I have made it with wheels a touch heavier? I'll never know. But being able to close that gap by being maybe 12" closer meant that I beat the guy behind me by 10 minutes.

My fasted, hardest race the group I stayed in broke the course record (set by an animal some of you have heard of). The deciding climb was absolutely the hardest thing I have ever done. That race - 220 gm silks and a 250 gm front rim. (Same spokes.)
I wonder why would the rims need to be stronger? They can be built without a brake track so that's weight savings and aero gains there. There's no additional strength requirement for the spoke bed or the spokes themselves.

The force of deceleration always eventually arrives at the spokes. The only real difference with disc vs rim wheels is that due to the braking force originating at the hub, the wheel cannot be fully radially built. One side needs to be at least 1 cross.
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Old 01-24-23, 01:28 AM
  #648  
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Originally Posted by Eric F

Itís been a long time since Iíve ridden tubular tires. Please remind me how you ďfield fixĒ a flat. I seem to recall a need to haul around a complete tire. Iím happy to not have to do that any more.

Do you know whatís slower than a heavy tire? A flat one. If tubeless tires significantly reduce the amount of puncture flats, that means more winning opportunities not lost for racers, fewer group rides brought to an irritating halt, and I get home sooner (or get to ride longer) because Iím not wasting time on the side of the road, that sounds like a very good thing to me.
Disclaimer: I think tubulars are stupid. I don't use them.

That out of the way, I've always felt that fixing flats make me slower than using a tire system that's lighter than... Waaaait a second! There must be some mistake!

Nope. A tubeless tire, valve, tape and some sealant is in fact lighter (marginally) than a tire and a race light tube.

Conti gp5000 25mm
tire 230g
Tube 65g
295g

Conti gp5000 s tr 25mm
Tire 250g
valve 5g
Tape 7g
Sealant 30g
292g

As an added benefit for the tubeless tire: lower rolling resistance, more grip, more comfort and much faster puncture fixing if using a dynaplug etc. That's in case the sealant doesn't plug the hole.

I would have compared the tubular tire too but alas continental hasn't produced the gp5000 as tubular. Shame...
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Old 01-24-23, 01:56 AM
  #649  
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Sigh.. the advantage of tubulars is not the tires but the rims. Repeat: the rims. Tubular tires are held onto the rim with a few grams of high-strength glue, unlike clinchers (tubeless - same) which require 2 protrusions or hooks on the periphery of the rim to hold on the tire. These hooks are fragile, cause pinch flats, and add weight at the worst place on a bike.

Check your stats - tubular rims are always lighter than comparable clincher or tubeless rims. And due to the extra forces placed on disc-equipped wheels, disc wheels are always heavier than rim brake wheels, - and then you have to add rotors.

If you really want light, then Lightweight Meilensteins come in at 935 grams. Yes, for a pair of wheels. Due to the inherent design disadvantages of clinchers, this is not possible in tubeless or clinchers.
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Old 01-24-23, 02:38 AM
  #650  
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer
Sigh.. the advantage of tubulars is not the tires but the rims. Repeat: the rims. Tubular tires are held onto the rim with a few grams of high-strength glue, unlike clinchers (tubeless - same) which require 2 protrusions or hooks on the periphery of the rim to hold on the tire. These hooks are fragile, cause pinch flats, and add weight at the worst place on a bike.

Check your stats - tubular rims are always lighter than comparable clincher or tubeless rims. And due to the extra forces placed on disc-equipped wheels, disc wheels are always heavier than rim brake wheels, - and then you have to add rotors.

If you really want light, then Lightweight Meilensteins come in at 935 grams. Yes, for a pair of wheels. Due to the inherent design disadvantages of clinchers, this is not possible in tubeless or clinchers.
But... You have to glue to tire in place. And it's not a simple slap on glue, slap on tire -type of maneuver either. It is a genuine hassle that makes bleeding brakes and seating tubeless tires seem like kindergarten play. And both things combined will take a fraction of the time.
What do you do if you get a flat mid ride? You'll need to carry a whole tire? Glue? Brush? Heat gun maybe? How good will a roadside repair really be?

If you have a support car then maybe tubulars still have their place (however judging from the pro peloton, probably not much longer) but for a regular joe? Just stupid. Almost like drillium.

As to disc wheels always being heavier (than rim), are they though? I mean you need to add stuff to the hub sure but you can take stuff away from the rim area. And some manufacturers already do. I wouldn't be so certain that disc is automatically heavier. And even if there is a weight difference, the added weight is where it matters less.
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