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Old 01-14-23, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by kcinnick
Our local Trek dealer is GREAT but they dropped Specialized to pick up Trek.

Our local Specialized dealer SUCKS, they only picked up Specialized because TREK DROPPED THEM.

I decided on bikes from Specialized and I ordered direct so I don't have to deal with that "authorized" dealer in the future and can use the Specialized Rider Care instead.

Supporting a good business is great, but there is no reason to support a local business if they suck.
I'll bet they dropped Specialized because of their recent direct to consumer move, which Trek is not doing.

Direct to consumer models have taken great brands like Kestrel and Litespeed and made them also-rans. Specialized might be too big to fail, yet they and Trek became the two biggest brands by sticking to the exclusivity of dealers. Cervelo went from online sales to LBS only about 10 years ago and have flourished.

Once you transform your business model into that of Canyon or Focus, your consumer value becomes similar to Canyon or Focus and your product becomes a value proposition based on specs vs price - and then it is a race to the bottom. There are lots of things that make a brand special, and convenience is rarely one of them.
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Old 01-14-23, 04:54 PM
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About a year ago during the height of the supply chain issues, I wanted a new bike and looked around a lot online, without luck, looking for availability and hopefully a good price. I finally started looking at lbs websites and found just what I was looking for, "in stock". I contacted them to be sure their website was up to date and it was. I drove 13 miles a couple days later, paid exactly what I expected and went home with a new bike. Since then I've been back, and now check locally in any bike supply shopping. I'm semi-converted.
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Old 01-14-23, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by veganbikes
Specialized Rider Care is going to send you to a local shop in most cases just FYI. I would be curious to know how they suck if true and would also love to hear their side of the story.
I walked in planning to buy 2 bikes and they were no help. Guys just sitting goofing off instead of being available for questions. I was honestly going to buy two Trek bikes kind of impulsively since they were discounted but I am glad I didn't, I like the Specialized bikes better, at least the models I got. The shop that I really liked just couldn't get the bike I decided on but were great with customer service, even though they were transitioning to Trek they talked up the Specialized bike I was looking at and said it was better spec'd for the money right now with the January sale. From what I understand the warranty for the branded components I can go to the good shop and would only need to go to a Specialized dealer for things like Frames, forks, etc. that are specialized branded and I really hope those things never break! Reviews of the shop match up with my experience. Sales team is no help and the service department reviews were filled with things of nightmares. They had two locations, but the other location was much smaller and didn't have any bikes I was interested in. The one guy working it seemed nicer but ultimately he worked for the larger bike shop. If I need warranty service I might take it to him, but I am hoping I don't.
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Old 01-14-23, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by kcinnick
I walked in planning to buy 2 bikes and they were no help. Guys just sitting goofing off instead of being available for questions. I was honestly going to buy two Trek bikes kind of impulsively since they were discounted but I am glad I didn't, I like the Specialized bikes better, at least the models I got. The shop that I really liked just couldn't get the bike I decided on but were great with customer service, even though they were transitioning to Trek they talked up the Specialized bike I was looking at and said it was better spec'd for the money right now with the January sale. From what I understand the warranty for the branded components I can go to the good shop and would only need to go to a Specialized dealer for things like Frames, forks, etc. that are specialized branded and I really hope those things never break! Reviews of the shop match up with my experience. Sales team is no help and the service department reviews were filled with things of nightmares. They had two locations, but the other location was much smaller and didn't have any bikes I was interested in. The one guy working it seemed nicer but ultimately he worked for the larger bike shop. If I need warranty service I might take it to him, but I am hoping I don't.
That would suck if people didn't help out I do not like places like that. Like I always say though would love to hear their side of it as well. Hopefully you let the management know with constructive criticism so they have a chance to improve.

In terms of warranty you can go to another shop for other parts. The frames and forks from Specialized would go to a Specialized dealer and hopefully the Specialized dealer in town helps out as needed and hopefully they have improved with the constructive feedback you have provided.
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Old 01-14-23, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Kontact
I'll bet they dropped Specialized because of their recent direct to consumer move, which Trek is not doing.

Direct to consumer models have taken great brands like Kestrel and Litespeed and made them also-rans. Specialized might be too big to fail, yet they and Trek became the two biggest brands by sticking to the exclusivity of dealers. Cervelo went from online sales to LBS only about 10 years ago and have flourished.

Once you transform your business model into that of Canyon or Focus, your consumer value becomes similar to Canyon or Focus and your product becomes a value proposition based on specs vs price - and then it is a race to the bottom. There are lots of things that make a brand special, and convenience is rarely one of them.
Trek's idea of direct to consumer is to buy out all their dealers with Elon Musk like abandon, they are just now starting to see the issues with that approach, and most of the industry is already moving towards or preparing to move to a DTC model in some form.
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Old 01-15-23, 11:50 PM
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I understand that there's more bike brands than Trek and Specialized? Anybody know anything about this?
(Felt, Jamis, Jamis, "Lynskey" Litespeed, current Litespeed, Lynskey, Fischer (pre-trek), Kona, Sannino)

I would encourage people to expand their horizons, but also understand that Specialized and Trek are making this increasingly difficult. It's pretty much about all that's available in my town any more. There used to be a guy that sold exclusively Bianchi and Felt, but he went away. The Specialized store used to carry Kona and something else that's slipping my mind now, but now it's all Specialized. I'm glad I'll never have to buy a Spec. or Trek. Don't like the brands even thoug the bikes are probably just fine.
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Old 01-16-23, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Kontact
I'll bet they dropped Specialized because of their recent direct to consumer move, which Trek is not doing.
You mean which Trek is doing...

https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/home-delivery/
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Old 01-16-23, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Kontact
Once you transform your business model into that of Canyon or Focus, your consumer value becomes similar to Canyon or Focus and your product becomes a value proposition based on specs vs price - and then it is a race to the bottom. There are lots of things that make a brand special, and convenience is rarely one of them.
Yeah...because ordering online and having it delivered to your home is such an inconvenience. You are so out of touch.
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Old 01-16-23, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by prj71
Yeah...because ordering online and having it delivered to your home is such an inconvenience. You are so out of touch.
I see that you need that sentence explained to you:

"Branding" is the elements of a company's appeal to the public. For something like a hot dog, ease of buying is a high priority. For something like a Rolex, exclusivity is actually much more important. Brands that have relatively high priced goods - especially ones that are high even in their own market - rely much more on exclusivity to separate their brand from similar offerings. So "convenience" isn't actually a huge selling point, and often can detract from the warm fuzzies consumers get when they decide to spend a year's tuition on a hobby item. It takes away from their sense of seeking out something truly excellent and being treated as discerning in return.


You are so out of touch - with the English language.
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Old 01-16-23, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Kontact
I see that you need that sentence explained to you:

"Branding" is the elements of a company's appeal to the public. For something like a hot dog, ease of buying is a high priority. For something like a Rolex, exclusivity is actually much more important. Brands that have relatively high priced goods - especially ones that are high even in their own market - rely much more on exclusivity to separate their brand from similar offerings. So "convenience" isn't actually a huge selling point, and often can detract from the warm fuzzies consumers get when they decide to spend a year's tuition on a hobby item. It takes away from their sense of seeking out something truly excellent and being treated as discerning in return.


You are so out of touch - with the English language.
And you got your MBA from which school?

You've responded to a post about the convenience of buying bikes online with a bunch of palaver about 'exclusivity' and branding. Your post is a non-sequitor.
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Old 01-16-23, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Koyote
And you got your MBA from which school?

You've responded to a post about the convenience of buying bikes online with a bunch of palaver about 'exclusivity' and branding. Your post is a non-sequitor.
I am clearly using a language that some of you don't speak. The words and grammar are correct English, yet no basic comprehension occurs...
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Old 01-16-23, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Kontact
Once you transform your business model into that of Canyon or Focus, your consumer value becomes similar to Canyon or Focus and your product becomes a value proposition based on specs vs price - and then it is a race to the bottom.
Selling items based on their specs vs. price value is exactly how things should work. Selling items based on price alone would be a race to the bottom.
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Old 01-16-23, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Kontact
IThe words and grammar are correct English, yet no basic comprehension occurs...
That's typically what happens when something is incomprehensible ... no comprehension.
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Old 01-16-23, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
Selling items based on their specs vs. price value is exactly how things should work. Selling items based on price alone would be a race to the bottom.
Rolex, Cadillac, Fendi, Apple and an enormous number of other consumer items are not sold by their specs vs price.

I shouldn't have to point out that this enormously successful business model exists to another adult.
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Old 01-16-23, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
That's typically what happens when something is incomprehensible ... no comprehension.
You're so out of touch.
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Old 01-16-23, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Kontact
Rolex, Cadillac, Fendi, Apple and an enormous number of other consumer items are not sold by their specs vs price.
Ummmmm ... Apple most certainly sells items by specs vs. price. If you want a higher spec processor, you pay more. Same with Cadillac -- if you want a higher spec engine, you pay more.
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Old 01-16-23, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
Ummmmm ... Apple most certainly sells items by specs vs. price. If you want a higher spec processor, you pay more. Same with Cadillac -- if you want a higher spec engine, you pay more.
Geez, you really didn't understand that Cadillac - the entire car line - was being used as an example of a luxury priced car that has specs comparable to less expensive brands, but has a greater price because of its fashionability?

Either you are putting me on, or there is simply no way of explaining even the most basic concepts. This isn't as hard as explaining how many spacers a cassette needs, is it?
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Old 01-16-23, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Kontact
Rolex, Cadillac, Fendi, Apple and an enormous number of other consumer items are not sold by their specs vs price.
Well, yeah. Look at every category market leader. Almost none of them compete on price, for good reason.

Have you heard of "better before cheaper"?

In industry after industry, the best performing companies focus on differentiating their products on something that makes their product "better" than the competition (quality, reliability, innovation, etc.).

Companies that focus on price tend to lose share to a competitor.
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Old 01-16-23, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Kontact
Geez, you really didn't understand that Cadillac - the entire car line - was being used as an example of a luxury priced car that has specs comparable to less expensive brands, but has a greater price because of its fashionability?

Either you are putting me on, or there is simply no way of explaining even the most basic concepts. This isn't as hard as explaining how many spacers a cassette needs, is it?
I've never been a fan of Cadillac. (Actually, I can't stand them.) But, they have always been at the forefront of putting new technology in their cars, and that technology costs a lot of money. So, no, they are not priced higher than other cars just because they are fashionable.
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Old 01-16-23, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by terrymorse
Well, yeah. Look at every category market leader. Almost none of them compete on price, for good reason.

Have you heard of "better before cheaper"?

In industry after industry, the best performing companies focus on differentiating their products on something that makes their product "better" than the competition (quality, reliability, innovation, etc.).

Companies that focus on price tend to lose share to a competitor.
Which is precisely the point I have been making. "Better" takes many forms. An Aethos might be the current lightest frameset, but that doesn't explain why anyone should buy a mid-line Specialized road bike, except for the fact of its association with the exclusive, high end stuff.
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Old 01-16-23, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
I've never been a fan of Cadillac. (Actually, I can't stand them.) But, they have always been at the forefront of putting new technology in their cars, and that technology costs a lot of money. So, no, they are not priced higher than other cars just because they are fashionable.
Cadillac once offered a re-badged Chevy Cavalier. No, it did not have new technologies. It had a hood ornament. Just like Calvin Klein can sell expensive cotton underpants.
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Old 01-16-23, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Kontact
Cadillac once offered a re-badged Chevy Cavalier. No, it did not have new technologies. It had a hood ornament. Just like Calvin Klein can sell expensive cotton underpants.
That's right, they once offered a low price model that was basically a re-badged Chevy. Guess what? It failed because it was a high price Chevy. The existence of that low price model, however, does not mean Cadillac doesn't put new technology in their other models.
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Old 01-16-23, 08:37 PM
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We have a lot of shops here a good one 6 blocks from my shop. the nI went tubeless I found the right size dt-swiss tape and muc-off stems. but no tires. doing my second bike again not the right tires or the right size tape as my wheels are a little odd. but I still buy stuff here and chains and such their prices are about the same as amazon.
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Old 01-16-23, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Kontact
I see that you need that sentence explained to you:

"Branding" is the elements of a company's appeal to the public. For something like a hot dog, ease of buying is a high priority. For something like a Rolex, exclusivity is actually much more important. Brands that have relatively high priced goods - especially ones that are high even in their own market - rely much more on exclusivity to separate their brand from similar offerings. So "convenience" isn't actually a huge selling point, and often can detract from the warm fuzzies consumers get when they decide to spend a year's tuition on a hobby item. It takes away from their sense of seeking out something truly excellent and being treated as discerning in return.


You are so out of touch - with the English language.
Originally Posted by Kontact
I am clearly using a language that some of you don't speak. The words and grammar are correct English, yet no basic comprehension occurs...
I've got to hand it to you. Most rational people would assume that, if a couple of the largest and most successful bike mfrs on the planet (like this one and this one) have opted to do DTC sales, it is likely a smart business move. I mean, these are very large corporations that employ lots of smart people who do lots of market research. There's a reason why they've grown into very large and recognizable and profitable brands in relatively short periods of time. But yeah, I'm sure some random dude on the internet knows better, esp since he throws around a couple of B-school terms like a real pro.
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Old 01-16-23, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Koyote
I've got to hand it to you. Most rational people would assume that, if a couple of the largest and most successful bike mfrs on the planet (like this one and this one) have opted to do DTC sales, it is likely a smart business move. I mean, these are very large corporations that employ lots of smart people who do lots of market research. There's a reason why they've grown into very large and recognizable and profitable brands in relatively short periods of time. But yeah, I'm sure some random dude on the internet knows better, esp since he throws around a couple of B-school terms like a real pro.
I'm not familiar with business school terminology, but I'm delighted that you think I'm on to the kind of concepts that very successful business people use!

I believe I also used the term "too big to fail" about Specialized. And that certainly may be true - that even something potentially damaging like direct to consumer might not matter to a company with that much of a following. However, the point remains that the biggest cycling brands flourished by selling exclusively in shops while a number of other brands seemingly went nowhere moving to direct. You can poo-poo that factoid and pretend that consumers are different people than they were 10 or 20 years ago. But I don't think so. I've always found Trek in particular to be one of the more lackluster product lines - but here we are with Trek owning something like a quarter of all bike sales. How did that happen, considering they refused to sell direct and rigorously enforced dealer agreements for the first fifty years?

So I could be totally wrong, but I am speaking from history.
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