Leisesturm

What is the tipping point, period? Is this a Climate Change thread? As for 'clearance' ... bike manufacturers usually put the size tire on the bike OEM that they think best serves the design. The drop bar bikes I see in the LBS don't have anymore 'clearance' now than they ever did, but the tires on the drop bar gravel bikes are 32mm to 40mm instead of 23mm to 25mm for the road race replicas. 'Clearance is still ~5mm. 5mm 'clearance' is zero clearance. More clearance than that (rarely exceeding 10mm) is to allow for the use of fenders or not. Most people now use the 'clearance' to stuff in bigger tires. Surly and a (very) few companies have left it to the rider what size tires they want to use, and have supplied generous OEM 'clearance'. A Surly Bridge Club can use anywhere from 32mm to 2.8" plus size tires. They mostly sell them as bare frames but if you buy one built up it will come with 2.4" WTB clinchers. The Bridge Club is a 'flatbar' design OEM. I will risk it and opine that ALL the ultra wide clearance models on the mass market are 'flat-bar' form factor OEM. ALL 'drop-bar' designs (still) have ~5mm to ~10mm 'clearance OEM, and I don't see that changing anytime soon. But this is bike forums. I expect heated debate over what I have observed.

HelpSingularity 

gnarly!

Daddy like!

wolfchild

I have experimented and tried different types of handlebars and the ones I hate the most are drop bars and flat bars. My favorite and most comfortable type of handlebars are riser bars with few degrees of back sweep and ergon grips with bar ends....and btw handle bar type and tire width have nothing to do with one another. Ride whatever handle bars you like.

Rolla

To illustrate that bar shape and tire width work independently: for tracklocross I'd want 35mm tires and flat bars; for off-road bikepacking, it's 3" tires and dirt drops.

Eric F

Is that you? Am I seeing correctly that the bike is a fixie?? I love my singlespeed MTB, but a fixie is a whole different animal.

EDIT: I just learned what "tracklocross" is. Wow. That answers my second question.

EDIT 2: Damnit. I really don't have room for another bike, and a tracklocross bike is likely to truly injure me....but now I want one.

wolfchild

It all depends what type of a trail it is. The main issue to watch out for when riding fixed off road is pedal strike when going over obstacles such as big roots or rocks. It takes practice and there are just some situations where it's better to get off the bike and walk...Flowy XC type single track without large obstacles is actually tons of fun on a fixed gear MTB and so are gravel roads.

Eric F

There isn't much in my area where that kind of bike would make any kind of sense, especially at my age (not as bulletproof as I used to be) and skill level (not as good as I used to be). Intriguing, though.

Carbonfiberboy 

Quite. Larger tires have become more popular on road bikes of late. I think choice of tire width depends on pavement quality or lack thereof.I ride on very nice pavement in the PNW and I agree. However clearance will also depend on whether fenders are to be fitted.Rather than use tire width as the "tipping point," IMO one is better off using terrain. MTBs are for riding difficult trails. Road bikes are for roads and MUPs. Gravel bikes are for, well gravel roads. Road bikes, whether asphalt or gravel, are better bikes with drops, regardless of tire width chosen. MTB bikes have flat bars and use MTB tires with width and tread pattern carefully chosen for the terrain to be ridden.

Touring bikes come in many flavors, depending on user preference and largely, terrain.

Ironfish653

I don't think it has to be an either / or argument, either; as to what size tires are 'restricted' to a particular bar shape.

Back 30 years ago, there wasn't a whole lot of crossover, because drop bars didn't really play well with 26er MTB geometry. (See Johnny T's famously sketchy YETI back in post#17)

Now that, for better or worse, bicycle architecture is based around 622mm wheels and disk brakes, it gives designers / mfgrs more leeway to mix-n-match.

It's also not like every drop bar is a Cinelli 64-40. "Adventure/Gravel" bars like the PNW Coast and Salsa's Woodchipper come in sizes up to 52 cm, which is nearly as wide as the 540mm flat-bars like the Answer Hyperlite that we used to run in the NORBA days.
Add in the fact that 31.8mm threadless stems are nearly ubiquitous, and you can make pretty much any bar shape work on pretty much any frame, with whatever tire/wheel size you can fit between the stays.

The only reason to impose a "limit" is because of your particular sense of style.

LesterOfPuppets

I got a 6-bolt cog adapter and ran my fatbike fixed once. I might setup a fixed MTB again for canal path trails, but I'm not going up or down any hills or tech with that setup ever again

#toooldforthispoop

seypat

I don't do wheelies on my road bikes, so no tipping points.

Rolla

Goodness no, but it could have been -- about 30 40 years ago!

Eric F

I feel this.

MarcusT

It is elementary-. The world of cycling mostly agreed flat bars for off-road and drop bars for on-road. Then hybrids came out and suddenly the cycling world was mildly tipped for flat bars on-road.
Then gravel bikes came out and the world felt a large tremor as drop bars are used for off-road.
Now, the bar wars begin and those who even mention what they like or don't like are targeted by opinion laden member of the opposite view.
What an epiphany that social media let's our opinion known to thousands even millions as opposed to the tired friends and family who hear it too often.

c_m_shooter

You are never better off with flat bars. Maybe if the tires get wider than 3 inches?

Jeff Neese

On that bike with those tires riding that terrain, I would definitely want drop bars.

amazinmets73

why do xc racers typically use flat bars?

Eric F

I can't agree with that as a universal fact. On a MTB, on technical terrain, I much prefer the leverage and hand position of a flat bar. Tire size is unrelated to my preference.

Maelochs

John Tomac came to mind when I read this but Ned Overend had a much longer career

(edit: I see others had the same idea before I did. That's what i get for responding to a post before I read the whole thread. Sorry.)

Rolla

Same. I understand that being in the drops on rough terrain does give your hands a modicum of security, but the narrower bar width and more "vertical" hand position leaves me feeling less in control.

I don't think it's a coincidence that motorcycles don't have drop bars.

Eric F

IMO...Being in the drops feels like better control when compared to being on the hoods. For control of the machine in demanding conditions, a wide flat bar wins.

Leisesturm

The ONLY reason performance bicycles have drop bars is so that the rider can get into an extreme tuck and reduce their Cda. That's it. Motorcycles, the least of them, the humblest moped or Vespa scooter have gas (or electric) motors making an obsessive focus on the riders aerodynamic profile irrelevant. Sitting upright is the best orientation for the control of a single track vehicle in any use case. Drop bars are a concession to the poor power output (~150W+) of the average fit human being.

Maelochs

Except that racing bikes are extremely aero and have bars much more extreme even that drop bars---little horns sticking out from the sides of the top of the triple-clamp.

And as for control, if you ever watch moto, those guys ride through corners at about a 25-degree angle and accelerate out, leaned over, with one wheel on the ground .....

Yes, absolutely, drop bars were an aero device .... invented by the Wright Bros I believe back in the 19th century, when they sawed off the riser and welded the bars to the top of the fork. That doesn't mean they aren't good for anything but aero .....

I commuted for a lot of years on a flat-bar Bridgestone. You can tuck right down with your chin on the stem and you arms beneath the bars .... it is even more uncomfortable than riding the drops for many miles but for anything up to about 25 miles it was fine for me ...... people adapt to stuff and people adapt stuff.

Rolla

That certainly seems to be the case with me, which is why I disagree with this earlier assertion:

When things get hairy, I want my head up, my shoulders squared, my arms wide, my fingers forward, and my palms facing the ground.

Leisesturm

You've made my point. When you can't rely soley on your motor because all your competitors have the same motor, you have to go back to aero and try to be moreso than everyone else, and of course putting the controls right on the triple clamp gets you right down to it. My first road bike was a flat-bar 700C format. Trouble with those is that's all there is. I converted it to drops so I could sit up on the flats when I felt like it, cruise out on the hoods, and get down in the drops when I am reeling in the 20 somethings. A competition (moto) biker ... the only time they sit up is after they are coasting past the finish line both fists in the air.