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So much resistance to change

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So much resistance to change

Old 01-13-23, 05:24 AM
  #226  
seypat
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Originally Posted by Camilo
You don't need that stuff to be a "cyclist" which is the point being rightly pooh-poohed.



"General Tone"? Nonsense. I read the hell out of that forum and this one and have never gotten that impression.
Why then, is there so much negativity towards people who are satisfied with not having the latest/greatest? Why all the negative comments towards riders who want to keep their rim brakes? It shouldn't matter. Look at the amount of posts on this thread and the rim brake thread. There's the evidence. Now we have the 14k bike thread. A more costly version of this thread. Let's see where it goes.

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Old 01-13-23, 05:42 AM
  #227  
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Originally Posted by seypat
Now we have the 14k bike thread. Let's see where it goes.
It will probably go off the rails after 1 page and then keep going for another 20 pages.
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Old 01-13-23, 05:49 AM
  #228  
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Time to resurrect the "MEILENSTEIN LIGHTWEIGHT WHEELS" thread. Everyone has their price, it just differs with each individual.

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Old 01-13-23, 05:55 AM
  #229  
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Originally Posted by urbanknight
The current trend in my band room, thanks to some YouTuber who calls himself "Sexy Sax Man", is for my sax players to learn the solo from Careless Whisper and gyrate while playing it over and over again until I start rehearsal. They even teach it to the younger students at lunch time so I can be sure the trend continue next year, and the next, and the next.


The best definition of "music" that I have found is: sound organized in time. That in no way implies that you have to like or even appreciate it. To branch out a little bit, an art professor once told a friend of mine that art is a conversation which you may or may not be a part of.

I could pontificate for hours on why they like listening to four letter word after four letter word with tons of shouting and very little (if any) melody, but that would just be my personal observations. It speaks to them, and they feel something when listening to it.

I once heard a 40 piece banjo band at a jazz festival. Hated it. It's still music, but I turned and walked away.
An excellent post that actually helps a bit. Thanks.
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Old 01-13-23, 07:12 AM
  #230  
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Regarding the music, the mashups show that different types of music are more similar than people realize.



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Old 01-13-23, 07:48 AM
  #231  
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Originally Posted by seypat
Why then, is there so much negativity towards people who are satisfied with not having the latest/greatest? Why all the negative comments towards riders who want to keep their rim brakes? It shouldn't matter. Look at the amount of posts on this thread and the rim brake thread. There's the evidence. Now we have the 14k bike thread. A more costly version of this thread. Let's see where it goes.
There is a lot of negativity toward Everything ... and some of it is serious.

Few people post about how great everything is (at least on this site) and when they do there are pretty much a couple possible responses---yes (not to stimulating) or No (there is that negativity .... )

I think it is all a matter of perception ... if you think people don't respect your older bike or cheap kit, or if you are a troll, you see those ideas reinforced everywhere, even if those aren't actually what people are saying ... But everything we experience is filtered and assembled and edited in our brains by our brains, and we tend to think that what we think is what is out there, or what people are saying, or whatever. We also tend ot think that when a person says a thing, that is it ... that is what the person thinks ... but most of us have more than one thought (even the OP has about half-a-dozen threads he repeats regularly.)

When i saw this thread .... because fi have been suckered so many times, and have tried to learn at least a little .... i took a step back because I knew what was coming ... As in advertisements, which usually begin with a false or invented assumption--We all hate that our just-washed clothes don't smell clean, for example--and then based on that invented and untrue basis, invent a larger false reality in which solutions are proposed---or in a certain kind of thread, debate of imaginary positions is encouraged.

Funniest part is that these exact scenarios have played out dozens of times over the last many years .... We willingly retrace the routes that we claim are so unpleasant to travel. You could cut/paste portions of past threads in here and it would all fit perfectly.

Anyway ... we all have a measure of free will (IMO) and can escape our habitual actions with just a little effort. (I keep trying ) If threads like this persist, it is because in some way we all want them ... we want to offended by imaginary premises and the debates they engender.

@rydabent thinks he is all that, because he is 82 or 84 and rides 2000-3000 miles a year. And truly, that is no mean feat. But his greatest talent, which he never brags about, is that he is such a skilled puppet master. He can post one of his six standard threads, over and over, and pull all of our strings.

That being said, I don't like most rap (hip-hop) music but I understand the various appeals the various varieties hold ..... I do dislike the fact that machine-generated music, exceedingly simplified, has replaced a lot of music based on talent and skill in the pop music repertoire favored nowadays, but I really do not care. I listen to what moves me, I ride what I enjoy riding, I wear what I want to wear .... and I cannot post here much because I like to argue too much.

See ... I am nothing like any of the rest of you folks ........
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Old 01-13-23, 07:51 AM
  #232  
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Ha! Do you want to see what really gets the recumbent guy's skivvies in a wad? Just ask them to join your virtual recumbent Zwift racing team. Their heads will explode.
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Old 01-13-23, 08:17 AM
  #233  
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Originally Posted by Ogsarg
As with so many threads in this section, I believe it starts with a false premise and is not factual whatsoever. While there are plenty of people that prefer to ride classic rides, the industry as a whole does not make new bikes like that and most riders have moved on to hydraulic disc brakes, thru axles, etc. If we were all luddites, someone would still be offering new penny farthings.

I have also never once, not a single time, encountered anyone that said someone was not a cyclist because they did not have an expensive bike or expensive kit. I think most people that cycle realize there are levels of seriousness when it comes to cycling and and that there are some that are more serious, and less serious than themselves.

I think some people are just insecure in their choices and they imagine what others are thinking.
Ah but some people are making new Penny Farthing bicycles.

People will ride whatever they like.

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Old 01-13-23, 08:21 AM
  #234  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
'Click shifting' was introduced and took off like wildfire. It was a huge success. At an industry conference, brands actually hesitated at the idea of indexed shifting, but they were shown to have totally missed the market as it was wildly popular. This is well documented.
Also, MTBs were hardly scoffed at in the beginning. Once Specialized took Ritchey's bike and mass produced it into the Stumpjumper in '81, brands couldnt keep up with demand as MTBs were introduced by all brands thru the early 80s. The first shipment of Stumpjumpers sold out in less than a week.

Dont use these examples moving forward as they run completely counter to your agenda.
I think that when Shimano perfected index shifting, that it was one of the greatest advances in bicycling componentry since the safety bicycle and pneumatic tires/tubes. Index shifting made it so easy for beginning riders to shift flawlessly.

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Old 01-13-23, 08:24 AM
  #235  
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Originally Posted by seypat
Why then, is there so much negativity towards people who are satisfied with not having the latest/greatest? Why all the negative comments towards riders who want to keep their rim brakes? It shouldn't matter. Look at the amount of posts on this thread and the rim brake thread. There's the evidence..
I must have missed that.
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Old 01-13-23, 10:01 AM
  #236  
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Originally Posted by seypat
Why then, is there so much negativity towards people who are satisfied with not having the latest/greatest? Why all the negative comments towards riders who want to keep their rim brakes?

As I see it, the comments are more directed at the equipment, not the user. But some here are so invested in their "retro" identity that they think any criticism of older gear is a personal insult to them.
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Old 01-13-23, 10:16 AM
  #237  
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I would just add that if everyone just had one bicycle and didn't ride in groups or participate in these sorts of discussions, they would live a happier life, be content with what they were using, and enjoy the ride. The beauty of freedom and self-propelled transportation, the sort you had as a child, is a thing to enjoy, not make sad or angry.
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Old 01-13-23, 10:19 AM
  #238  
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Originally Posted by Rolla
As I see it, the comments are more directed at the equipment, not the user. But some here are so invested in their "retro" identity that they think any criticism of older gear is a personal insult to them.
The title/subject of the other thread is about riders keeping their rim brakes. It's not about switching to disc brakes. Yet at least half of the posts are from disc riders attempting to tell the other side that they should be riding disc. That's not what the subject of the thread is about, but posters are essentially threadjacking trying to change the opinion of the other side and berating them in the process. Which means that the rim brake side is doing the same thing. No reason for it. It could lead to something like this:


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Old 01-13-23, 10:31 AM
  #239  
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Originally Posted by seypat
Why then, is there so much negativity towards people who are satisfied with not having the latest/greatest? Why all the negative comments towards riders who want to keep their rim brakes? It shouldn't matter. Look at the amount of posts on this thread and the rim brake thread. There's the evidence. Now we have the 14k bike thread. A more costly version of this thread. Let's see where it goes.
It's the attitude of a minority of those people toward anything new that generates all the negativity. I haven't heard anything negative aimed at riders who are happy with older tech who are not arrogant and condescending toward those who have chosen the "latest/greatest" as you put it. It only takes one or two of them to trash any tech related thread.
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Old 01-13-23, 10:33 AM
  #240  
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Originally Posted by seypat
Why then, is there so much negativity towards people who are satisfied with not having the latest/greatest? Why all the negative comments towards riders who want to keep their rim brakes? It shouldn't matter. Look at the amount of posts on this thread and the rim brake thread. There's the evidence.
That's not really what's happening over there.
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Old 01-13-23, 10:37 AM
  #241  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
It's the attitude of a minority of those people toward anything new that generates all the negativity. I haven't heard anything negative aimed at riders who are happy with older tech who are not arrogant and condescending toward those who have chosen the "latest/greatest" as you put it. It only takes one or two of them to trash any tech related thread.
You don't see yourself as doing the same for the other side? We've been through this in other threads. Your hatred of FDs and any chance to trash them is way over the top. Right up there with the people you are berating.
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Old 01-13-23, 10:45 AM
  #242  
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Originally Posted by seypat
Yet at least half of the posts are from disc riders attempting to tell the other side that they should be riding disc.
From what I read it was just disc riders attempting to explain why they are not actually stupid fools taken in by Big Bike marketing. I don't think anybody even attempted to tell the "other side" to change their brakes.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but not a single poster was derided for choosing to stay with rim brakes who DID NOT try to trash disc brakes and the whole industry/consumers for adopting them.
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Old 01-13-23, 10:48 AM
  #243  
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Originally Posted by seypat
You don't see yourself as doing the same for the other side? We've been through this in other threads. Your hatred of FDs and any chance to trash them is way over the top. Right up there with the people you are berating.
Not at all. For a start all my road bikes have FDs and they work fine within their inherent limitations. I just don't like the concept and would prefer to move on. It's nothing like the same thing.
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Old 01-13-23, 11:31 AM
  #244  
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Originally Posted by seypat
Why then, is there so much negativity towards people who are satisfied with not having the latest/greatest? Why all the negative comments towards riders who want to keep their rim brakes? It shouldn't matter. Look at the amount of posts on this thread and the rim brake thread. There's the evidence. Now we have the 14k bike thread. A more costly version of this thread. Let's see where it goes.
I think the primary reason is that they are perceived as being sanctimonious and unbending. I.e. Their way is right, period. Personally I could care less what people like and donít like. I only care about what works for me.
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Old 01-13-23, 11:44 AM
  #245  
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Originally Posted by seypat
Why then, is there so much negativity towards people who are satisfied with not having the latest/greatest? Why all the negative comments towards riders who want to keep their rim brakes? It shouldn't matter. Look at the amount of posts on this thread and the rim brake thread. There's the evidence. Now we have the 14k bike thread. A more costly version of this thread. Let's see where it goes.
????

Most of the posts in this thread are saying the notion you need to spend $5000+ is silly..

Most of the posts in the rim brake thread say that rim brakes are fine/no reason to dump them.

Most of the posts in the 14K bike thread say that spending so much isn't necessary.

It's objectively silly to claim that you need disk brakes or need to spend $5000+ to be "serious".

You should just ignore anybody who says this (fortunately, there aren't actually too many of them).

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Old 01-13-23, 11:53 AM
  #246  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
From what I read it was just disc riders attempting to explain why they are not actually stupid fools taken in by Big Bike marketing. I don't think anybody even attempted to tell the "other side" to change their brakes.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but not a single poster was derided for choosing to stay with rim brakes who DID NOT try to trash disc brakes and the whole industry/consumers for adopting them.
20 pages is a lot to go back through. That's exhausting. In post 126, you quoted me just because I used the word preaching in a different context. You did retract it, but that was after the fact. Just looking for an argument.

In posts 193, 208, 259, 260, 277, 382, 484 you made more comments directed at those general "diehard" posters you keep referring to. Any comment like that is pointed at all of the posters(including me) that are keeping their rim brakes whether you meant for that to happen or not. When someone calls you on it, you backtrack and say, "Oh I wasn't talking about you. I was talking about one of "those other guys." Then you make another berating comment at those diehards and tell them to come up with an example. It's an endless cycle. I don't care what people use, but it's a rim brake thread where people were asked to explain why they are making that choice. You or I may not agree with their choice, but the thread is not about disc brakes.
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Old 01-13-23, 11:58 AM
  #247  
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After going back through those 20 pages, I've got overload. Torture is all I can say. On the flip side, BF is getting some run and discussions. Maybe that's why these threads aren't closed earlier.
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Old 01-13-23, 12:34 PM
  #248  
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Some resistance to change is logical. Example--- if you have a high end bike with rim brakes, it makes no sense to get rid of it and spend thousands more for another high end bike with disc brakes, even tho they are superior.
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Old 01-13-23, 01:11 PM
  #249  
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Originally Posted by rydabent
some resistance to change is logical. Example--- if you have a high end bike with rim brakes, it makes no sense to get rid of it and spend thousands more for another high end bike with disc brakes, even tho they are superior in some ways.
fify.
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Old 01-13-23, 01:34 PM
  #250  
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Originally Posted by seypat
but it's a rim brake thread where people were asked to explain why they are making that choice. You or I may not agree with their choice, but the thread is not about disc brakes.
It soon became about disc brakes when a few people started slating them and even the entire industry. The first page was actually quite benign. A few people stated sensible reasons why they were staying with rim-braked bikes, without feeling a need to deride disc brakes and/or consumers for being taken in by the fashion.

Wolfchild stated that biking is now just a fashion industry and you actually agreed with him. Then a few posts later smd4 pops along to tell us that disc brakes are ugly, inelegant and have poor modulation. The responses are inevitable and then it becomes the usual rim vs disc brake trainwreck. 1989Pre came out with a few gems of ignorance - the lateral imbalance issue of disc brakes FFS.

If someone started a disc brake thread and then someone stated that rim brakes are outdated junk only for dinosaurs, you would rightly expect a similar backlash right? Except those threads don't appear to exist from what I've seen. Maybe I missed one?

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