robobike316 

I started riding, racing, and working in bike shops in the late 70's. Even then, the term "retrogrouch" was in existence.
For the most part though, people did embrace new technology as it came around. I got a pair of Duegi wooden soled, single bolt cleats within a year to replace the old TA nail on cleats and thought that was awesome. So did everyone else. The wool jerseys and shorts were replaced by lycra almost across the board when I was a kid.I never knew anyone to wear wool shorts after that.
I put a triple on an old road bike when I saw mountain bikes starting to appear, and then got a real mountain bike after my failed attempts at making one! Everyone embraced the mountain bike back then, from the serious road racers looking for more riding options to tourists as well as first time riders.
Indexing was embraced by almost everyone, on and off road. Clipless pedals took over quickly for all serious riders. Clip on aero bars, the Scot AT-4... Innovations came and went, but it seemed to me that everyone was looking for something better constantly. The industry generally delivered.
I had brake bridges on my cantilevers, a Mountain Tamer Quad on my mountain bike, (anyone remember those?) Zefals and Silcas got switched out for the latest, greatest, lightest, air inputting devices.
Aero levers got rid of our lovely, curvy cable housings. Modolo plastic levers replaced my Campys. The sew ups got switched out for MA-40s and there were no more $15 flats, That was awesome by me and every one I knew. 6,7,8, 9, 10 speed rear ends were all widely embraced.Please stop! I was happy with 7 and still am. 13- really?

The point is, I didn't see any significant resistance to change at all, rather the opposite. Yes, the retrogrouch was out there in his cave on Mount Crumpit, but he didn't come down to to Whoville much.

Now I am old and will not race again. My 4 bikes are all 70's friction steel and the only bit of "new tech" on any of them is clip less, even on the little Raleigh 20. I have gone back mostly to the simple, functional, cheap and elegant. Will not go back to sew ups though!

prj71

My experience also.

I don't know anyone, myself included, warrantying frames, carbon wheels, Di2 components and hydraulic components at frequent intervals. Hell...my bike from 2016 has only had a new chainring, cassette, chain, BB bearings and brake pads changed once...But that's normal maintenance.

My bikes from the 80's and 90's I was constantly tinkering with things on it to make it run smoothly.

mstateglfr 

"This is what I have personally experienced."
"No you havent."

Haha, too funny.

prj71

Seriously? C'mon. The bikes of today (much like vehicles) are light years better than any of that old stuff.

seypat

I wish we could call the whole thing off.

Kontact

is "better" performance or reliability?

prj71

Both!!

unterhausen

If you work in a shop, then you see a lot of warranty issues that any given customer is unlikely to see. When I did field service on aircraft, it seems like our planes were all breaking down, but from an operational perspective, they never broke down. It's a matter of the population that your experience is being sampled from. There have been some recent designs that had a lot of problems, like the first grx brakes, but a lot of customers don't look at their brakes that often so they didn't notice. If every bike customer had so many problems that they thought bikes were unreliable then that would represent so many warranty issues that the bike companies would be out of business in a couple of years.

livedarklions

I believe his name is Straw McMahon.

rollagain

... and thanks for setting such a good example.

phughes

Is that a bent?

tomato coupe

It's easy to believe that warranty claims are more common today than they were 40-50 years ago, given the added complexity of bike components and the introduction of electronics. That being said, however, I'd bet the overall warranty rate is still very low. (Other than Garmin products, I haven't made a warranty claim on a bike product in 50 years and dozens of bikes.)

SurferRosa

For you maybe. Not for me.

livedarklions

I don't get it--if someone says "in my experience, all people from Michigan eat nothing but tater tots", you can't question the truth of that generality?

If someone makes a broad general statement based on their personal experience, there's nothing illogical about challenging the truth of the broad general statement.

livedarklions

Bonus points if you can find someone actually pronouncing it "potahto" who isn't reciting or singing the lyrics to that song.

PeteHski

I would agree. But the thing is that bikes (and cars for that matter) are nostalgic and therefore emotive. Hence the considerable interest in C&V. Some people become emotionally attached to their old bikes, cars or whatever else. Others are less sentimental and tend to move on more readily with technical progress. I'm more of the latter type, but I can appreciate a little nostalgia without wearing rose-tinted specs. Resistance to change tends to be stronger with more sentimental types.

Kai Winters

I like new technology and embrace evolution in all things cycling.
I ride a full mechanical Aethos because I don't want to spend the money on Di2, even at wholesale...bike shop employee, when I have a great Ultegra 11 speed kit but I'd go Di2 if i had a chance just because of the coolness factor.
Just sold an ebike to a woman this week. She is a rider but isn't at the same level as her husband so she can't ride with him and his friends because she can't keep up. Now with an ebike...pedal all the time model...she can and now is part of the group...that is a fantastic use of an ebike.
I don't consider people to be riders/cyclists that are riding a bike because they can't drive by judicial decree.

rydabent

I didnt know that DF saddles gave you worms!!!!!!!

SurferRosa

Or ... they know absolutely everything about them, understand exactly how to easily keep them in like-new condition without hauling them to a bike shop to pay a stranger to maintain, and they can appreciate the simple perfection of their function.

Acknowledging beauty and functional perfection needn't be emotional. The fictional character Spock could do this.

Eric F

What is your measurement for "better"?

seypat

I've imbedded some pop culture references in posts trying to lighten the mood. I thought I had a good one in post 245 of the 'Keeping my Rim Brakes because I don't like Frisbees" thread. Went right over people's heads. Must be because I'm a codger. The tunnel vision is so strong trying to prove something wrong or right. Can't see the forest for the trees.

mstateglfr 

It isnt a broad general statement though.
Kontact specifically compared the current time period to prior time periods and kept it focused only to the experience within their shop.

Furthermore, nothing was questioned. smd just flat out said Kontact's analysis isnt true. No questioning there, just straight up saying Kontact is wrong and offering up no counter to show Kontact's in person experience is different.
Its was funny to read that because smd has no idea where Kontact even lives, much less what shop is being discussed or even which brand(s) Kontact has experience with. That all is quite different from your Michigan example since people could easily refute the claim by showing Michiganites eating things besides tater tots.

I now find it funny that I had to explain what seems like a very easily discernable difference between smd's ignorant claim that Kontact is saying untrue things, and your tater tot example.




ETA- I edited a few words in my last sentence because LDL seemed to see it as such an attack on prj that I had to be taken to task. Hopefully now that I rephrased 'lying' to 'is saying untrue things', LDL will be able to move on.

mstateglfr 

Better how?

If bikes of today have fewer warranty claims and they are therefore better, I cant speak to that because I have no idea. I have absolutely no clue if a higher or lower % of bikes these days have warranty claims. I dont work for a brand, I dont work for a shop, and I have never tried to find statistics that would inform me on such an issue.

Bikes of yesteryear were certainly simpler, and I could easily see that simplicity results in fewer warranty claims. Fewer parts, less technology, less electronics all would probably lead to lower warranty issues.
But that is a total guess on my part because as I said- I dont have any information to actually back that line of thinking up.

Its interesting that you have passionately argued for rim brake bikes in another thread, and the benefits of those are simplicity, reliability, and ease of service. Yet here you passionately argue that bikes with cutting edge design is light years better than any of that old stuff and there are fewer warranty claims.


I wont hold my breath waiting for any reliable data on this, to be clear.

veganbikes

I mean I don't have actual numbers because I don't really keep them but I did see a significant uptick in warranties in the early portions of the endemic but there were a lot of bikes in the shop and being bought so it could just be that. I think these days it is easier to file a claim and track stuff so I could also see that as a warranty booster. I hate playing phone tag but with no answering machine or caller ID it could be worse.

Koyote

Bingo. Absolute numbers are meaningless, since there will be more warranty claims now (compared to, say, forty years ago) simply because there are more bikes now. veganbikes makes this point, too: