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How can a $14,000 bicycle possibly be worth the money?

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How can a $14,000 bicycle possibly be worth the money?

Old 01-15-23, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by A350driver
What I find hilarious is the guy who will pay $14k for a 16lb bike but heís 30 pounds overweight!
I am more overweight than that and full retail of my recent yeti build Would probably come close to that number

I previously had a DI2 s works tarmac And a couple of track bikes that would be in that neighborhood as well

Nothing hilarious about it. I just like nice bikes
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Old 01-15-23, 10:45 AM
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Sheesh, and I thought boating forums were bad in the winter…

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Old 01-15-23, 10:53 AM
  #278  
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Originally Posted by Kontact
2 years ago I bought a used Lemond Buenos Aires for $100. If I were riding with a guy in similar shape who has a $14,000 bike, would we notice a difference?

It isn't surprising that a bike could be luxury goods priced at $14,000. But it is surprising the bikes nearly as capable are essentially valueless.
Surprising, but if you're at all mechanically inclined and can do a lot of your own work, very nice! The way I look at it is, if a bike was a Really Good Bike 10 or 20 years ago, it's still a Really Good Bike if brought back to good condition, even if there are newer bikes that are lighter, or faster. They don't become Bad Bikes. You just have to be okay with their relative limitations. The difference between my fastest modern CF bike and my oldest, 40 year old steel bikes boils down to about 4% difference in average speed over the same course. And I enjoy riding each of them.
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Old 01-15-23, 10:57 AM
  #279  
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Originally Posted by beng1
Well, if they overeat food to soothe a tortured psyche, then they will overeat on anything. It is a common phenomenon in decaying civilizations for it's citizens to resort to instead of learning anything about themselves or their society.
Originally Posted by elcruxio
...what?
... the?
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Old 01-15-23, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by msu2001la
Tire clearance is the main thing. A lot of race-oriented bikes from that era can't fit anything bigger than 23s.

Not all of us want or need to fit pseudo gravel tires on our bikes. 23s and 25s are fine

Have a 2017 tarmac and the 26c tires are close to the limit, - Not even specialized cares about running 32ís On a race bike
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Old 01-15-23, 10:58 AM
  #281  
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Originally Posted by beng1
Well, if they overeat food to soothe a tortured psyche, then they will overeat on anything. It is a common phenomenon in decaying civilizations for it's citizens to resort to instead of learning anything about themselves or their society.
Originally Posted by elcruxio
...what?
Originally Posted by tomato coupe
... the?
... f***?
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Old 01-15-23, 11:00 AM
  #282  
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene
Queue up the discussion on watches' timekeeping ability.. TImex vs ROlex
Go!
Already did that one, two days ago.

Originally Posted by livedarklions
Queue up discussion of whether watches actually have any function you don't have on a smartphone.
Funny you should mention that. I collect vintage American wrist and pocket watches. My Millennial nephew was visiting and we were talking about the fact that his generation don't wear wrist watches. He pulls out his phone and says, "Why do I need a watch when I have this thing in my pocket I can pull out that has the time?"

So I pulled out my pocket watch and said, "Congratulations! You've reinvented the pocket watch!"

Funny thing is, the wrist watch became popular about 100 years ago, because it was more convenient than pulling out a pocket watch.
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Old 01-15-23, 11:04 AM
  #283  
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Originally Posted by DMC707
Not even specialized cares about running 32ís On a race bike
Apparently they do, because Tarmacs have been built to accommodate 32 mm tires for a few years.
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Old 01-15-23, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
Apparently they do, because Tarmacs have been built to accommodate 32 mm tires for a few years.

Mustíve started in 18 then, as that is the year mine was superseded

caving in to marketing and a gravel centric mindset But whatever it takes to get people to keep buying new bikes every three or four years
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Old 01-15-23, 11:08 AM
  #285  
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Originally Posted by beng1
So today I am going to go help someone buy eye drops to treat their glaucoma which they can not afford.
I think this is a euphemism for scoring some weed.
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Old 01-15-23, 11:12 AM
  #286  
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Originally Posted by DMC707
... caving in to marketing and a gravel centric mindset But whatever it takes to get people to keep buying new bikes every three or four years
So, Specialized has caved in to marketing? I thought they were the creators of the marketing? Big Bike is so devious, they're even manipulating themselves!
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Old 01-15-23, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
So, Specialized has caved in to marketing? I thought they were the creators of the marketing? Big Bike is so devious, they're even manipulating themselves!
If I ever buy another new road bike again, I want it to be as up-to-date as possible whether I believe the hype or not, I was amazed at the resell value of the tarmac when I offloaded it

Since my main winter ride right now is a new Turbo Levo, It’s obvious that I drink heavily from Big S’s Kool-Aid even if I question it at the same time
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Old 01-15-23, 11:20 AM
  #288  
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Originally Posted by genejockey
Already did that one, two days ago.


Funny you should mention that. I collect vintage American wrist and pocket watches. My Millennial nephew was visiting and we were talking about the fact that his generation don't wear wrist watches. He pulls out his phone and says, "Why do I need a watch when I have this thing in my pocket I can pull out that has the time?"

So I pulled out my pocket watch and said, "Congratulations! You've reinvented the pocket watch!"

Funny thing is, the wrist watch became popular about 100 years ago, because it was more convenient than pulling out a pocket watch.
Wrist watches replaced pocket watches because they performed the same function and were more convenient, but a wrist watch can't replace a smart phone because it lacks most of the functions of a smart phone.
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Old 01-15-23, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by beng1
A. Just because a marketer says something is an improvement over last-year, does not mean it is an improvement. When marketers say something is better, it is marketing, being able to tell consumers something is new is a way to keep profits up for corporations and that is it.
Counterpoint: I have a lot of bikes, 10 of them going back to 40 years ago. Those "improvements"? They're really improvements. They make the bikes faster, more efficient, and, I find, a lot easier to achieve the symbiosis of rider and bike where it responds like an extension of your own body.

B. Of course a lighter and more aerodynamic cycle can be faster, but that has no value to 99.999% of the population that are no pro racers. It is simply a common marketing tactic to trick consumers into believing that if they buy what pros use, then they will also be "winners" when all they really win is an empty wallet or bank account, or worse a new debt.
Counterpoint: Going faster is of value to any rider who wants to go faster. One might as well say that improving your own speed and endurance is of no value to anyone who isn't a pro racer.

C. If all pros had to use low-end racing bikes as someone else mentioned Japan may, then there would be a chance that people could learn that racing is about being the fastest rider, not the rider with the most money or technology. In my area there is a 59 year-old woman who wins local time-trials over all other female entrants. She is obviously a good athlete, but she is wealthy and rides $14,000 bicycles that no other competitor has, so who or what won the race? If that is the example set then there are no winners at all, especially the average spectator or rider that sees that sort of thing and figures they have to have the same bike if they want to win and believes that having things that way is a "good" thing because marketers say it is a good thing.
Counterpoint: The differences between the best and worst bikes ridden by World Tour pros boil down to incremental differences, not day-and-night, which funnily enough is the whole point of this thread - that what you gain in speed for the extra $9K that separate a $5K bike from a $14K bike. So, in the end, it comes down to the rider anyway.

You also directly contradicts your earlier assertion that all the improvements aren't really improvements. Can't keep a story straight.

D. My only claim for my $3 TT bike, is that in local fun events I can do as well on it time-wise as 2/3rds of the entrants, and could do much better if I was not a cardiac patient in my 60s. And because I am not brainwashed by marketers I can have fun on $3 bicycles, as much fun as the brainwashed have for 13,997 more. So today I am going to go help someone buy eye drops to treat their glaucoma which they can not afford.
Counterpoint: Wait. So it's the rider, not the bike?

And of course, you not only have fun on your $3 bike, but you also get that warm feeling of smarmy superiority over people you don't know.
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Old 01-15-23, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
Wrist watches replaced pocket watches because they performed the same function and were more convenient, but a wrist watch can't replace a smart phone because it lacks most of the functions of a smart phone.
True, but you give up the convenience of looking at your wrist, which is much more convenient. Plus, one keeps a pocket watch on a chain generally, so you always have it, versus "Where's my phone? Could you call it so I can find it?"
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Old 01-15-23, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by genejockey
True, but you give up the convenience of looking at your wrist, which is much more convenient. Plus, one keeps a pocket watch on a chain generally, so you always have it, versus "Where's my phone? Could you call it so I can find it?"
It doesn't change the fact that a wristwatch is redundant if you have a phone. I'm with your nephew on this one. (And, not everyone loses their phone.)
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Old 01-15-23, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Kontact
2 years ago I bought a used Lemond Buenos Aires for $100. If I were riding with a guy in similar shape who has a $14,000 bike, would we notice a difference?
I'd probably notice on the hills. My BA was a little over 22 lbs stock. Add cheap slightly lighter wheels, stem, seatpost, saddle and it's down to a hair over 20 lbs but it's still 5 lbs heavier than a $14k UCI legal bike, and maybe 7 pounds heavier than a $14k weight weenie bike.
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Old 01-15-23, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by genejockey
True, but you give up the convenience of looking at your wrist, which is much more convenient. Plus, one keeps a pocket watch on a chain generally, so you always have it, versus "Where's my phone? Could you call it so I can find it?"
That's why they came up with smart watches!

Well that and Dick Tracy
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Old 01-15-23, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Kontact
2 years ago I bought a used Lemond Buenos Aires for $100. If I were riding with a guy in similar shape who has a $14,000 bike, would we notice a difference?
I'd bet Greg LeMond would say there's a noticeable difference.
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Old 01-15-23, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
It doesn't change the fact that a wristwatch is redundant if you have a phone. I'm with your nephew on this one. (And, not everyone loses their phone.)
Well, I don't know about you, but when I'm out on a ride, I find it WAY easier to sneak a quick peak at my wrist than to take a hand off the bar, reach back into my jersey pocket, pull out my phone in its little plastic bag, switch it on, look at the time, and then stuff it back in, without pulling out the empty food wrappers I stuff in there.
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Old 01-15-23, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by genejockey
Well, I don't know about you, but when I'm out on a ride, I find it WAY easier to sneak a quick peak at my wrist than to take a hand off the bar, reach back into my jersey pocket, pull out my phone in its little plastic bag, switch it on, look at the time, and then stuff it back in, without pulling out the empty food wrappers I stuff in there.
My Garmin displays the time, so a watch is still redundant.
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Old 01-15-23, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
The differences would be obvious even before getting on the bikes, the question is whether those differences meaningfully translate into performance. Run the experiment and find out.

The point about the high end not holding its value on the market is a lot more interesting. It does create great buying opportunities so I don't really want to complain about it. Basically, if a person is looking at a bike as a long term investment, they're doing it wrong.
There is no performance difference. Maybe I pulled less or had to get out of the saddle earlier, but it was undectable. The entire cost of his bike provided no obvious advantage, and my nearly free bike did 99.9% what his did.

Which makes the Timex vs Rolex case. But it also makes the Hamilton Swiss Automatic vs. Rolex case. If two items are essentially similar in construction, origin and performance - how did their prices become so different? The answer seems to be luxury buying.
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Old 01-15-23, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
It doesn't change the fact that a wristwatch is redundant if you have a phone. I'm with your nephew on this one. (And, not everyone loses their phone.)
It kinda isn't though. There's a lot of situations where taking a quick peek at your wrist is more convenient than digging out a phone. None of those may apply to you though.

If I want to know the time when cycling it's a lot easier to check the wristwatch. All the more so when riding in inclement weather and especially when it's raining cats and dogs and I don't want to expose the phone to all that. Also typically the phone is in an inconvenient location if I'm riding in rain so fishing it out would in many cases require stopping and in some cases seeking shelter so I don't douse the insides of a handlebar bag etc.

Taking a hand off the bars when riding, digging for the phone, dropping it, stopping, picking it up, seeing if my glass insurance covers such things etc... Easier to use a wristwatch.
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Old 01-15-23, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by elcruxio
It kinda isn't though. There's a lot of situations where taking a quick peek at your wrist is more convenient than digging out a phone. None of those may apply to you though.

If I want to know the time when cycling it's a lot easier to check the wristwatch. All the more so when riding in inclement weather and especially when it's raining cats and dogs and I don't want to expose the phone to all that. Also typically the phone is in an inconvenient location if I'm riding in rain so fishing it out would in many cases require stopping and in some cases seeking shelter so I don't douse the insides of a handlebar bag etc.

Taking a hand off the bars when riding, digging for the phone, dropping it, stopping, picking it up, seeing if my glass insurance covers such things etc... Easier to use a wristwatch.
Redundancy is a different issue than convenience. I know a guy that wears a wrist watch on each wrist, because it's sometimes more convenient to look at one rather than the other. Despite adding some convenience, the second watch is still redundant.
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Old 01-15-23, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
My Garmin displays the time, so a watch is still redundant.
You can use a phone instead of a watch - no one absolutely needs a watch.

But you can use running shoes or a bus instead of a bike - no one absolutely needs a bike.
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