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How can a $14,000 bicycle possibly be worth the money?

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How can a $14,000 bicycle possibly be worth the money?

Old 01-15-23, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by genejockey
Already did that one, two days ago.


Funny you should mention that. I collect vintage American wrist and pocket watches. My Millennial nephew was visiting and we were talking about the fact that his generation don't wear wrist watches. He pulls out his phone and says, "Why do I need a watch when I have this thing in my pocket I can pull out that has the time?"

So I pulled out my pocket watch and said, "Congratulations! You've reinvented the pocket watch!"

Funny thing is, the wrist watch became popular about 100 years ago, because it was more convenient than pulling out a pocket watch.
And the pocket watch came about because there were all sorts of problems maintaining a grandfather clock at sea. :-)
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Old 01-15-23, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by genejockey
Already did that one, two days ago.


Funny you should mention that. I collect vintage American wrist and pocket watches. My Millennial nephew was visiting and we were talking about the fact that his generation don't wear wrist watches. He pulls out his phone and says, "Why do I need a watch when I have this thing in my pocket I can pull out that has the time?"

So I pulled out my pocket watch and said, "Congratulations! You've reinvented the pocket watch!"

Funny thing is, the wrist watch became popular about 100 years ago, because it was more convenient than pulling out a pocket watch.

Big difference being that I'm carrying the phone for about a zillion other reasons anyway.

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Old 01-15-23, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Kontact
You can use a phone instead of a watch - no one absolutely needs a watch.

But you can use running shoes or a bus instead of a bike - no one absolutely needs a bike.
I guess you're trying to make an analogy that no one needs a bike if they already own a bus (or a pair of shoes), because the bus (or shoes) already does what a bike does? Okay, sure.
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Old 01-15-23, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
I guess you're trying to make an analogy that no one needs a bike if they already own a bus (or a pair of shoes), because the bus (or shoes) already does what a bike does? Okay, sure.
It's not great optics for a hobbyist (cycling) to complain about the foolishness of other hobbies (horology). Neither count as necessities.
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Old 01-15-23, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Kontact
It's not great optics for a hobbyist (cycling) to complain about the foolishness of other hobbies (horology). Neither count as necessities.
In no way am I claiming horology (or any other hobby) is foolish. I love wrist watches, and I own a few. But, from a functional point of view, they are redundant if you carry a cell phone.
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Old 01-15-23, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
It doesn't change the fact that a wristwatch is redundant if you have a phone.
And yet plenty of people carry both...A wrist watch is actually great for checking time, so you don't have to pull your phone out of your pocket just to check the time.
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Old 01-15-23, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
But, from a functional point of view, they are redundant if you carry a cell phone.
Some cyclists take your analogy a step further and don't carry a spare tube and a repair kit because they think that a phone and a credit card is all that's necessary. Not functional at all but foolish.
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Old 01-15-23, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by wolfchild
And yet plenty of people carry both...A wrist watch is actually great for checking time, so you don't have to pull your phone out of your pocket just to check the time.
Again, convenience and redundancy are different issues. I own two very similar road bikes; they're almost totally redundant, but it's very convenient to leave one set up on the smart trainer year round.
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Old 01-15-23, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Kontact
There is no performance difference. Maybe I pulled less or had to get out of the saddle earlier, but it was undectable. The entire cost of his bike provided no obvious advantage, and my nearly free bike did 99.9% what his did.

Which makes the Timex vs Rolex case. But it also makes the Hamilton Swiss Automatic vs. Rolex case. If two items are essentially similar in construction, origin and performance - how did their prices become so different? The answer seems to be luxury buying.

I'm not going to get into the rather obvious issues with comparing two different riders on different bikes (about equally fit is too imprecise for this to be meaningful), but even if you're correct, you should keep your mouth shut about it so you can continue to get underpriced high-performance bikes.
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Old 01-15-23, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by wolfchild
Some cyclists take your analogy a step further and don't carry a spare tube and a repair kit because they think that a phone and a credit card is all that's necessary. Not functional at all but foolish.
This analogy is so far off the mark it's laughable. A spare tube does not have any overlapping functions of a cell phone, except maybe if used as a paperweight.
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Old 01-15-23, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by wolfchild
Some cyclists take your analogy a step further and don't carry a spare tube and a repair kit because they think that a phone and a credit card is all that's necessary. Not functional at all but foolish.

Depends on where you ride. It'd be foolish for me because I get too far out to find someone to pick me up even for money. If I just rode inside a city, might be perfectly reasonable.
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Old 01-15-23, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
This analogy is so far off the mark it's laughable. A spare tube does not have any overlapping functions of a cell phone, except maybe if used as a paperweight.
How is my analogy far off the mark ??...We're talking about cycling here and not browsing internet or playing games on a smart phone...A phone isn't going to fix your flat or tighten a loose bolt or fix a broken chain or make an adjustment on your bike. You need tools for that.
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Old 01-15-23, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
This analogy is so far off the mark it's laughable. A spare tube does not have any overlapping functions of a cell phone, except maybe if used as a paperweight.

The analogy is that the function of the spare tube in that context is to prevent a flat from stranding you. The cell phone is functioning to "unstrand" you by summoning help or a ride.
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Old 01-15-23, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
I'm not going to get into the rather obvious issues with comparing two different riders on different bikes (about equally fit is too imprecise for this to be meaningful), but even if you're correct, you should keep your mouth shut about it so you can continue to get underpriced high-performance bikes.
The extremes of bicycle depreciation are not going to change. I have a bunch of bikes, all purchased at bargain prices despite their like-new appearance. If one wishes to buy an $14k Aethos on a budget, you just need to wait six years and give the dentist that has had it hanging in the garage $2000.
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Old 01-15-23, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by wolfchild
How is my analogy far off the mark ??...We're talking about cycling here and not browsing internet or playing games on a smart phone...A phone isn't going to fix your flat or tighten a loose bolt or fix a broken chain or make an adjustment on your bike. You need tools for that.
Duh. A tool kit (or spare tube) and a phone clearly are not redundant in their functions. A wrist watch and a phone are redundant in their functions. That's why your analogy is bad.
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Old 01-15-23, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by wolfchild
And yet plenty of people carry both...A wrist watch is actually great for checking time, so you don't have to pull your phone out of your pocket just to check the time.
I frequently wear a wrist watch, but more as an accessory. I do wear one at work though for counting pulse and respirations. Far easier than pulling out a phone and selecting the clock function, etc.
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Old 01-15-23, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
Redundancy is a different issue than convenience. I know a guy that wears a wrist watch on each wrist, because it's sometimes more convenient to look at one rather than the other. Despite adding some convenience, the second watch is still redundant.
I have to ask, in what meaning are you using the word redundant?

If "exceeding what is necessary or normal", well definition doesn't quite fit...

If "serving as a duplicate to prevent failure of an entire system" then yes I suppose it's to an extent a redundancy but still doesn't quite fit.

If "no longer needed" well need is a tricky thing isn't it? Because people's needs are to large extent defined by their preferences. And so can a convenience actually be unneeded?

If you don't have a need to know the time while riding a bike, ie. if you mainly do it recreationally then no, you probably don't need a watch. However in my case as I use my bike for utility, I often need to know what time it is whilst riding, so I can speed up to avoid being late. Thus I need to know the time and having a wristwatch is both safer and more convenient. I don't have a garmin on my utility bike. It'd be redundant for that sorta use.

I don't strictly need to use a bike for utility. I could drive a car. So the bike isn't absolutely necessary. But I wouldn't call the bike unneeded or redundant just because I have alternative modes of transport available. The car can play music and access the internet as well. And make phone calls. You know this comparison is a pretty good one if I say so myself.
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Old 01-15-23, 01:56 PM
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Smartwatch ftw.
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Old 01-15-23, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
Duh. A tool kit (or spare tube) and a phone clearly are not redundant in their functions. A wrist watch and a phone are redundant in their functions. That's why your analogy is bad.
Both will get you home. Duh. You can't wear a phone on your wrist. Duh.

Maybe you should be using "duh" a little bit less?
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Old 01-15-23, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Kontact
Both will get you home. Duh. You can't wear a phone on your wrist. Duh.

Maybe you should be using "duh" a little bit less?
I honestly have no idea what point you're trying to make anymore. You seem to be spewing out random thoughts.
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Old 01-15-23, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
I honestly have no idea what point you're trying to make anymore. You seem to be spewing out random thoughts.
I'm saying that these pointless side arguments you like to make and the insulting way you do so are aggravating and unnecessary. A more moderated forum wouldn't tolerate such behavior.
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Old 01-15-23, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Kontact
The extremes of bicycle depreciation are not going to change. I have a bunch of bikes, all purchased at bargain prices despite their like-new appearance. If one wishes to buy an $14k Aethos on a budget, you just need to wait six years and give the dentist that has had it hanging in the garage $2000.

​You do understand the older one gets, the less likely you are to realize any benefits from that 6 year wait, right?
Probably makes more sense to look at the available 6 y.o. bikes now.
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Old 01-15-23, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
My Garmin displays the time, so a watch is still redundant.
I can't do more than 4 fields on the screen at a time, myself, and time of day is something I need to know far less frequently than speed, cadence, HR, and distance covered so far.

But I'd be hypocritical if I insisted everyone had to agree with my preferences, wouldn't I?
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Old 01-15-23, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by rydabent
If I showed you a $5000 bike and a $14000 bike could you tell the difference between them???
Yes the difference is $ 9000 dollars....You're basically paying $ 9000 extra just to gain maybe 1 - 2 MPH and save yourself few seconds.
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Old 01-15-23, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene
And the pocket watch came about because there were all sorts of problems maintaining a grandfather clock at sea. :-)
Pocket watches predated the marine chronometer by a couple hundred years, though. Interestingly, some of the best marine chronometers were produced by Hamilton, which also produced some of the best mass-produced pocket watches.
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