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How can a $14,000 bicycle possibly be worth the money?

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How can a $14,000 bicycle possibly be worth the money?

Old 01-13-23, 06:24 PM
  #176  
livedarklions
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Originally Posted by greatscott
At least you're being nice, thank you. And you are correct, if you have the money what the heck, buy a $15,000 bike or more. That was not my argument though, there was nothing said about if you have the money you're stupid for buying a $15,000 bike, I wasn't judging a person for spending the money. The original question was asking if it was worth it, I simply pointed out that the value of such a bike is not that huge of an improvement to deem it worth the expense especially if you're on the fence about it spending that kind of money.

Besides, the bike doesn't make the rider, the rider makes the bike, so other than having a very expensive bike, it won't do anything for a person's speed.

It's the law of diminishing returns, not exactly unique to bicycles.
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Old 01-13-23, 06:28 PM
  #177  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
Butt numbers are definitely the best numbers.
They have a certain intoxicating aroma that other numbers just don't have!

Did you know 5% of Bike Forums members wear blue socks on Tuesdays but only 1-2% of those are light blue. Also over 1% of the world is water but under 99% of the world is land. Pound Sign: ButtNumberFacts
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Old 01-13-23, 06:30 PM
  #178  
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Originally Posted by burnthesheep
People who care too much about what others buy or do seem to be projecting their regrets about their own decisions.

I think humans have an innate tsk-tsk drive that requires them to find reasons to assail other people's choices.
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Old 01-13-23, 06:31 PM
  #179  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
I think humans have an innate tsk-tsk drive that requires them to find reasons to assail other people's choices.
Of course! If you can't find fault with other people's choices, how can you possibly feel superior? Duh.
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Old 01-13-23, 06:32 PM
  #180  
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Originally Posted by veganbikes
They have a certain intoxicating aroma that other numbers just don't have!

Did you know 5% of Bike Forums members wear blue socks on Tuesdays but only 1-2% of those are light blue. Also over 1% of the world is water but under 99% of the world is land. Pound Sign: ButtNumberFacts
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Old 01-13-23, 06:36 PM
  #181  
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Originally Posted by genejockey
For example, the Specialize Aethos, which is something like $13K in its top configuration, has a maximum rider weight of about 275#. That's not delicate at all. It's lighter than other CF bikes because of both the specific CF used and the layup, and the materials and labor are big contributors to the cost. If you made it that light with more mundane CF and a less well-engineered layup, I imagine it would be rather less robust.
It is also a very good looking bike with minimal branding. It is also not designed to be a race bike for professionals. I remember when our rep brought his lower tier bike in and it was still stupid light.

We can also look at Dangerholm's bikes he has made many lightweight bikes for serious riding and hasn't had any issues. He is not a tiny guy and his downhill bike is under 30lbs and probably cost well over 14k if all the labor is added plus really top end fancy parts at full pop. Not bad for a downhill bike. He makes some other stuff which is also quite impressive weight wise.
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Old 01-13-23, 07:19 PM
  #182  
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People will pay what they will pay if they have what other people are asking. By the way... Does anyone else remember the games they played on the price is right where people had to guess the price of the new car with 4 figures and they defaulted the first number to 3?
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Old 01-13-23, 07:22 PM
  #183  
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Originally Posted by Camilo
I'll have to add bike purchasing history to the questions on qualifications I ask my next PCP! Bonus points for $14K bike instead of a $14K snowmobile.
Actually I had a pleasant surprise when I saw a podiatrist for the first time ever. I was having a pain in the ball of my foot that was getting to be a disability and limp when walking, XC skiing (classic style) or hiking. Didn't really bother me when I was riding or skate skiing though. For the appointment, I brought in one each of all the shoes I commonly wear: regular shoes, two type of hiking shoes, two types of XC ski boots (classic and skate), two bike shoes (MTB and road). I thought he might have some ideas. I was fortunate in that he thought they were all good quality, that wasn't the problem. But he did admire my bike shoes and said they were really nice. All my foot gear is pretty nice, I never skimp on that, no matter what the activity.

Turns out he's an avid cyclist, both commuting and recreational. Fit looking guy. He readily identified my issue ("feels like a pebble under the joint of your second toe?") and gave me a simple and cheap modification to my insoles that I could do at home, that solved it within a week. I also bought a some good quality OTC insoles from him that he recommended based on my arch, and what my Superfeet and Oboz looked like. He showed me why he thought they were better structurally and they were just a bit more expensive than Superfeet, etc. and cheaper than the same insoles on Amazon. I had a set of customs made too. He said it wasn't crucial, OTC's were fine, but they'd last much longer. It was fun doing the electronic mapping thing of my feet!.

Anyway, cycling doctor FTW.
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Old 01-13-23, 08:47 PM
  #184  
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^ You are demonstrating emotional security and maturity in saying you are stoked for your friend buying a really nice bike. Sour grapes or disparaging comments on the other hand demonstrate a decided lack thereof. Well done sir and may others follow your example.
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Old 01-13-23, 08:50 PM
  #185  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
It's the law of diminishing returns, not exactly unique to bicycles.
Yep, and ultimately I think this is the argument vonfilm is making, right? - that the returns have long-since diminished by the time you get to $14k. I tend to agree, but whether or not others agree with the specifics of that claim, each of us recognizes diminishing returns as a real concept.

The overton window expressed by the majority within this thread includes $14k as a "reasonable" price for some folks to spend on a bike, but for most of us there's a number out there at which we would say that spending that on a bike is ridiculous or even immoral - it just may have a lot more zeros on the end for some than for others (and may be a number significantly larger than whatever the world's most expensive bike currently is).
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Old 01-13-23, 09:06 PM
  #186  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild
i am not judging anybody.

Ha. You do little else here.
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Old 01-13-23, 09:20 PM
  #187  
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Originally Posted by genejockey
This is the key thing you generally seem to forget. You are one person, and while your judgements are valid FOR YOU, they are not any more broadly applicable.
The inability to understand that ones preferences are not universal has always struck me as a particularly childish fallacy.
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Old 01-13-23, 11:43 PM
  #188  
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Originally Posted by veganbikes;22768128
. I would have no hesitations riding [url=https://www.specialized.com/us/en/s-works-enduro-ltd/p/205558?color=335000-205558
this bike [/url]daily for instance, granted I am not a great mountain biker and don't ride enduro but I wouldn't think it was delicate based on price.
I'm not a great mountain biker and I'm not a Specialized fanboi but I would ride that Enduro. Never to it's potential, obviously, but if I had the cash, game on.

Hell if I had the cash I would probably get a new car or 2. A new road bike, too. Maybe even a $14K road bike, why not? Or would that be stupid? I wouldn't want to be stupid.
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Old 01-14-23, 12:30 AM
  #189  
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.
...I just read here, that Tesla is selling all their cars at a 20% discount right now. So you can now buy a base model Y, and get $13,000 off.
That will just about cover the price of a $14,000 Specialized wonderbike. So all things are possible in this, the best of all possible worlds.
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Old 01-14-23, 01:08 AM
  #190  
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer
....I just read here, that Tesla is selling all their cars at a 20% discount right now. So you can now buy a base model Y, and get $13,000 off.
That will just about cover the price of a $14,000 Specialized wonderbike. So all things are possible in this, the best of all possible worlds.
How can a $53,000 car possibly be worth the money?
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Old 01-14-23, 05:05 AM
  #191  
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People buying on the high end pay for the R&D and the like for those of us that ride normal bikes.
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Old 01-14-23, 05:57 AM
  #192  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
i think humans have an innate tsk-tsk drive that requires them to find reasons to assail other people's posts.
fify
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Old 01-14-23, 06:43 AM
  #193  
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If I had $14K laying around I did not need, I would not be able to do anything with it other than give it to some people who needed their gas bills paid, groceries or had other problems it could solve, that is what I have done in the past with extra money, thousands of dollars gone that way. My current road bikes initially cost $10, $3 and $20. My last two sets of really nice 27" tires I got from a local scrapyard and a local garage-sale for $5-$10 per set. And I rode about 3000 miles last year.
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Old 01-14-23, 07:40 AM
  #194  
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Originally Posted by beng1
If I had $14K laying around I did not need, I.
But if you had $28k "laying around......?"
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Old 01-14-23, 08:17 AM
  #195  
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene
fify
By lower-casing "i"? I don't get it. Otherwise you didn't change anything.
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Old 01-14-23, 08:48 AM
  #196  
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Originally Posted by retswerb
Yep, and ultimately I think this is the argument vonfilm is making, right? - that the returns have long-since diminished by the time you get to $14k. I tend to agree, but whether or not others agree with the specifics of that claim, each of us recognizes diminishing returns as a real concept.

The overton window expressed by the majority within this thread includes $14k as a "reasonable" price for some folks to spend on a bike, but for most of us there's a number out there at which we would say that spending that on a bike is ridiculous or even immoral - it just may have a lot more zeros on the end for some than for others (and may be a number significantly larger than whatever the world's most expensive bike currently is).

Don't even get me started on the circularity of the Overton Window concept, but I think that making the issue a moral one rather than just an economic one is really a p&r topic.

The point is that from the consumer perspective, the value of any given marginal improvement is subjective, as is the willingness to pay the price for that improvement--I could believe that a $14k bike is "worth it" but that I'm not willing or able to pay that much. Frankly, I'm not sure why anyone else should care if that's what I think unless they want to know if they should invest any effort into trying to sell me a $14k bike.

Obviously, enough people will pay $14k for a bike for a handful of manufacturers to produce $14k bikes. Equally as obvious, the vast majority of bikes sold are sold at prices significantly below $14k. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think anyone on this thread has said they've actually bought a $14k bike, they've just stated that the premise of the op question is really beside the point since "worth" is subjective and $14k bikes are obviously being sold to someone. Inevitably, people who are invested in the idea that their sub-$14k value is somehow "objective" will then attack the motivations/judgments/morality of the people who actually buy such bikes, but it's just silly nonsense.
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Old 01-14-23, 09:18 AM
  #197  
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Originally Posted by icemilkcoffee
I find this kind of thread really frustrating. Everyone jumps on the OP with "Well, that's just what the market will bear". You are just repeating the OP's question and not answering it.
The OP has two questions:
1. WHY is the Specialized whatever worth $14k. A sample answer would be 'the Dura Ace by itself is already $5k', or 'An internally routed frame takes three times the man-hour to build than the externally routed frames', or 'Specialized is by far the largest sponsor in the pro tours, so you are subsidizing the Tour riders', or 'unlike the lower tiers, the top tier Tarmac is all handmade in the USA'. (I made all of these up)
2. WHY does the $14k motorcycle come with probably 100X the number of parts and amount of machining and probably 50X the amount of engineering as the Specialized bike? Keep in mind that these hyper sport motorcycles sell in similar quantities as the Specialized Tarmac. So the economy of scale doesn't explain it.

You realize that #1 doesn't actually answer op's largely meaningless question, right? All you've done is push the question back another level to "why are people willing to pay for Dura-Ace and the labor for internal cabling?". And sorry, but why the hell is subsidizing a team an argument " for" paying the money? And if $5000 (about 35%) of the cost of a Tarmac is the Dura-Ace, calling that "handmade in the USA" is a bizarre redefining of handmade.

Show your math for #2, that's a bunch of assertion masquerading as a question.

The premise of the question is faulty. It's not up to the people responding to it to fix it.
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Old 01-14-23, 09:41 AM
  #198  
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Originally Posted by jadmt
if someone wants to spend $14000 or even $24000 on a bike I say more power to them. I love looking at expensive bikes, cars and mechanical things. I could walk into a bike shop and buy a $14000 bike but I would get my ass kicked when I got home and the people in the bike shop would laugh their asses off that a 64 year old beer swigging wannabe spent so much on a bike.....still would not blame anyone for wanting one if they have the means.
If I showed you a $5000 bike and a $14000 bike could you tell the difference between them???
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Old 01-14-23, 09:58 AM
  #199  
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Originally Posted by rydabent
If I showed you a $5000 bike and a $14000 bike could you tell the difference between them???
$5000 bike

$14000 bike
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Old 01-14-23, 10:11 AM
  #200  
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Originally Posted by rydabent
If I showed you a $5000 bike and a $14000 bike could you tell the difference between them???
most likely, yes I could. now if I were able to ride blind folded and could I tell the difference in how they rode? probably not.
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