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actual cost to build a $14,000 bike

Old 01-16-23, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by genejockey
I can't wait till he finds out how cheap aluminum is and tells us that Ferrari engine should only cost $500.
He already knows what aluminum costs. But you don't seem to understand that your post referenced the cost of high grade carbon fiber. So I provided it to you.
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Old 01-16-23, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Kontact
He already knows what aluminum costs. But you don't seem to understand that your post referenced the cost of high grade carbon fiber. So I provided it to you.
Well, if you're right, then someone will simply replicate the Aethos and sell it for cheaper. That's how The Market works.

Unless you're wrong.
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Old 01-16-23, 07:23 PM
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Its the load-bearing decals. Highly engineered for strength and durability so the manufacturers can cut weight on frames and forks. A true breakthrough in bicycle design.
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Old 01-16-23, 07:27 PM
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What makes the op such a pro is his ability to resist the urge to feed the thread and let it run.
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Old 01-16-23, 07:28 PM
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Armed with my little knowledge (somewhat outdated) of prices in the bike biz, I estimate that the manufacturer's cost of goods on a $14,000 SRP bike would be somewhere around $4500-$5000. And it would cost the dealer around $9200-$9800.

Don't ask me to show my work.
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Old 01-16-23, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer
...one of my old friends from the Bike Kitchen just coughed up something like 12 or 13 thousand dollars for an electric assist bakfiets. I think maybe he bought it instead of an electric car. But he can claim it's quite different mechanically from those other bikes.
Ouch a bit much for one of those, I would have gotten this https://www.r-m.de/en-us/bikes/load-75/ (or the Load 60) Bosch Motor, Full Suspension (so really comfortable in the city and probably on gravel as well though most of my riding has been city either taking customers or the daughter of our boss around) and really great components. Similar price point but super nice to ride

Or if I wanted full rigid I would go Urban Arrow which is also very Dutch and cheaper than 12k https://na.urbanarrow.com. I think even fully kitted out you can get it for under 10k and I am including keyed-a-like locks and all the cargo stuff. Maybe a little more with a dual battery.

The Bakfiets is a classic, sort of a vintage cargo bike like the Rivendell of the cargo world rim brakes, vintage aesthetic still neat but a little bit over priced for what it is. We have seen quite a few come through the shop though haven't seen their Shimano STePS version yet. I do like that blue color they show on the site though so I could see the attraction.
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Old 01-16-23, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by genejockey
Well, if you're right, then someone will simply replicate the Aethos and sell it for cheaper. That's how The Market works.

Unless you're wrong.
That is not what I said. I simply pointed out to you what the actual cost of high modulus fabric is. And it isn't that expensive.

However, many other companies make or have made Aethos-like bikes. The old R5Ca being an example.
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Old 01-16-23, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Kontact
That is not what I said. I simply pointed out to you what the actual cost of high modulus fabric is. And it isn't that expensive.

However, many other companies make or have made Aethos-like bikes. The old R5Ca being an example.
First, I'm not sure that "high modulus fabric" is what's used in the highest end Aethos. Second, do their frames weigh 585g and yet are rated for rider/cargo weights up to 300#?
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Old 01-16-23, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by genejockey
Well, if you're right, then someone will simply replicate the Aethos and sell it for cheaper. That's how The Market works.

Unless you're wrong.
Yep. If it only cost $1000 to manufacture a bike that sells for $14,000, there would be a stampede of investors looking to start companies to sell those bikes for $10,000 and steal a big chunk of the market.

Originally Posted by terrymorse
Armed with my little knowledge (somewhat outdated) of prices in the bike biz, I estimate that the manufacturer's cost of goods on a $14,000 SRP bike would be somewhere around $4500-$5000. And it would cost the dealer around $9200-$9800.
Most realistic estimate so far.
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Old 01-16-23, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by genejockey
First, I'm not sure that "high modulus fabric" is what's used in the highest end Aethos. Second, do their frames weigh 585g and yet are rated for rider/cargo weights up to 300#?
I didn't say what the Aethos is made of. YOU brought up high grade carbon fiber. What do you think high grade carbon fiber means?
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Old 01-16-23, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Kontact
I didn't say what the Aethos is made of. YOU brought up high grade carbon fiber. What do you think high grade carbon fiber means?
As I understand it, there are all sorts of grades of CF. I've seen several videos showing layups where it looked like some of it was fabric, while some looked more like ribbons with the fibers all in the same orientation. Some of it is stronger or stiffer for the weight than others, some of it much more expensive than others. So, it's not like there are only two grades. I think there are also different resins.

But that's just materials. There's the complexity of the layup, then the actual molding, the finishing, etc. And that's all just the cost of producing a frame that's already designed and engineered. The people who designed it don't work for free, either. There's a lot more to bringing a product to market than just COGS.
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Old 01-16-23, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by genejockey
As I understand it, there are all sorts of grades of CF. I've seen several videos showing layups where it looked like some of it was fabric, while some looked more like ribbons with the fibers all in the same orientation. Some of it is stronger or stiffer for the weight than others, some of it much more expensive than others. So, it's not like there are only two grades. I think there are also different resins.

But that's just materials. There's the complexity of the layup, then the actual molding, the finishing, etc. And that's all just the cost of producing a frame that's already designed and engineered. The people who designed it don't work for free, either. There's a lot more to bringing a product to market than just COGS.
I've read that the S-Works frames are made in Switzerland which would increase the labor costs over a production frame from Taiwan.
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Old 01-16-23, 08:09 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by genejockey
As I understand it, there are all sorts of grades of CF. I've seen several videos showing layups where it looked like some of it was fabric, while some looked more like ribbons with the fibers all in the same orientation. Some of it is stronger or stiffer for the weight than others, some of it much more expensive than others. So, it's not like there are only two grades. I think there are also different resins.

But that's just materials. There's the complexity of the layup, then the actual molding, the finishing, etc. And that's all just the cost of producing a frame that's already designed and engineered. The people who designed it don't work for free, either. There's a lot more to bringing a product to market than just COGS.
You can't both argue about how bikes are made and wonder how it is done at the same time.
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Old 01-16-23, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by genejockey
As I understand it, there are all sorts of grades of CF. I've seen several videos showing layups where it looked like some of it was fabric, while some looked more like ribbons with the fibers all in the same orientation. Some of it is stronger or stiffer for the weight than others, some of it much more expensive than others. So, it's not like there are only two grades. I think there are also different resins.

But that's just materials. There's the complexity of the layup, then the actual molding, the finishing, etc. And that's all just the cost of producing a frame that's already designed and engineered. The people who designed it don't work for free, either. There's a lot more to bringing a product to market than just COGS.
Bike frames are kind of like cycling shorts. Cheap shorts are made from one fabric and are sewn together from a minimum number of panels. More expensive shorts use a few different fabrics, and consist of many panels with specific orientations of the fabric.
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Old 01-16-23, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Kontact
You can't both argue about how bikes are made and wonder how it is done at the same time.
You must be new here.

Also, what I have done is to note that it's more complex than simply "high modulus fabric" vs standard, as well as to point out there are different grades of other materials used in the production, not to mention fit and finish, and that design and engineering aren't free either, and this weak tea is all you've got?
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Old 01-16-23, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
Bike frames are kind of like cycling shorts. Cheap shorts are made from one fabric and are sewn together from a minimum number of panels. More expensive shorts use a few different fabrics, and consist of many panels with specific orientations of the fabric.
Nonsense. You're clearly in the thrall of Big Shorts!
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Old 01-16-23, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by genejockey
Nonsense. You're clearly in the thrall of Big Shorts!
Busted.
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Old 01-16-23, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by genejockey
You must be new here.

Also, what I have done is to note that it's more complex than simply "high modulus fabric" vs standard, as well as to point out there are different grades of other materials used in the production, not to mention fit and finish, and that design and engineering aren't free either, and this weak tea is all you've got?
No. I only offered to you one of the list of things your brought up - the carbon fiber itself. I made no claims that it was the only factor. You can't seem to understand that I'm restricting my comments on your initial post to the cost of the cloth.
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Old 01-16-23, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Kontact
No. I only offered to you one of the list of things your brought up - the carbon fiber itself. I made no claims that it was the only factor. You can't seem to understand that I'm restricting my comments on your initial post to the cost of the cloth.
Did I say it was the only factor in the price? If not then 1) do you even have a point? 2) Should we start a support group for people with a pathological need to have the last word? I'm thinking the problem would be the first meeting would never end.
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Old 01-16-23, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by genejockey
Did I say it was the only factor in the price? If not then 1) do you even have a point? 2) Should we start a support group for people with a pathological need to have the last word? I'm thinking the problem would be the first meeting would never end.

​​​​​I can't believe that neither of you is mentioning the cost of the magic yak urine that must be used in the high end frames.

​​​​​​
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Old 01-16-23, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
​​​​​I can't believe that neither of you is mentioning the cost of the magic yak urine that must be used in the high end frames.​​​​​​
I think someone in this thread has been drinking magic yak urine.
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Old 01-16-23, 10:03 PM
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The same question about the cost to build a $14000 bike can be applied to SUVs and newer quad cab 4X pickups. They are profit centers. They are definitely better, but the value is what the consumer is willing to spend and the feeling they get from it.

Porsche was on the verge of bankruptcy and folding up shop until they rolled out the Cayenne SUV which saved the company. The best selling Porsche these days is not the 911 but the Macan SUV. Yup, they are profit wonders. I could extrapolate that the same high end bikes also support the low-end bikes of the same manufacturer, but have no concrete evidence.
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Old 01-16-23, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
I think someone in this thread has been drinking magic yak urine.
This entire thread is yak urine and butt numbers.
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Old 01-17-23, 10:04 AM
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Is $14,000 a lot? I guess it's relative.

In 1984, the Raleigh Olympic time trial bikes cast $25,000 each--or about $70,000 in today's dollars.
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Old 01-17-23, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by rsbob
The same question about the cost to build a $14000 bike can be applied to SUVs and newer quad cab 4X pickups. They are profit centers. They are definitely better, but the value is what the consumer is willing to spend and the feeling they get from it.

Porsche was on the verge of bankruptcy and folding up shop until they rolled out the Cayenne SUV which saved the company. The best selling Porsche these days is not the 911 but the Macan SUV. Yup, they are profit wonders. I could extrapolate that the same high end bikes also support the low-end bikes of the same manufacturer, but have no concrete evidence.
The problem with your Porsche analogy is that the Macan does not sit at the top of their lineup in pricing. Itís kind of like their low / mid price gravel bike.
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