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actual cost to build a $14,000 bike

Old 01-17-23, 02:52 PM
  #101  
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Originally Posted by Eric F View Post
Canyon Ultimate CFR with Dura Ace Di2 or Red eTap can be yours for the bargain price of $11k.
Now you've done it. I predict that within the next 24-to-48 hours (or possibly sooner), this new thread will pop up:

"How can an $11,000 direct-to-consumer bicycle possibly be worth the money?"

This will be followed, after a suitable interval allowing Thread 1 to find its legs and for review by the Department of Redundancy Department, by:

"Actual Cost to Build an $11,000 direct-to-consumer bike".
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Old 01-17-23, 03:09 PM
  #102  
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Originally Posted by hubcyclist View Post
I just spent the last 5 days in Lincoln, I can confirm the weather was poor and facilitated dumb topics like this
But did you notice we have clean air and clean water???

And I bet since it was cold, you were not aware that we have 130 miles of hard surface trails in Lincoln.

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Old 01-17-23, 05:29 PM
  #103  
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Originally Posted by Polaris OBark View Post
Why not pick a specific example of a $14K bike in which the vendor (Trek, Specialized, Giant, Scott, whomever) lists the individual components.

Then look up the price of each component or group-set, and write it down.

Then add up the prices of each of the individual items.

If the frame is available separately, you can add that in. Otherwise you will have to guestimate. (Maybe start with $4K for a very high-end carbon frame.) Add in that price.

Now add it a few hundred bucks for assembly.

Finally, don't forget the import taxes that agent orange imposed.

Retail prices for parts really aren't a factor when trek or Scott purchases 500 high end pieces and 5000 of a vendors standard parts.

Anecdotally, I've just purchased a new bike, $2199 original list, for $1449. An older unloved model to be sure, but still 30% discount for a '22 model one month into '23. Did the manufacture lose money on that sale?
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Old 01-17-23, 06:10 PM
  #104  
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Originally Posted by hevysrf View Post
Did the manufacture lose money on that sale?
No.

As for the initial question, it is a troll post, not a sincere question, but one legitimate question is whether a mechanically competent consumer might be better off buying parts separately and assembling their own bike. (I recently did this for my wife, after we demo-ed a couple of $9K Trek gravel bikes. She now has an American-made titanium frame, GRX Di2, etc. bike with high-end, hand-built wheels for a bit more than half that price. Sure, a vendor could have done it cheaper, but what was relevant was what we, the consumer, might pay. I did waste a couple $100 bucks screwing up, FWIW.)
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Old 01-17-23, 06:23 PM
  #105  
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Originally Posted by Polaris OBark View Post
No.

As for the initial question, it is a troll post, not a sincere question, but one legitimate question is whether a mechanically competent consumer might be better off buying parts separately and assembling their own bike. (I recently did this for my wife, after we demo-ed a couple of $9K Trek gravel bikes. She now has an American-made titanium frame, GRX Di2, etc. bike with high-end, hand-built wheels for a bit more than half that price. Sure, a vendor could have done it cheaper, but what was relevant was what we, the consumer, might pay. I did waste a couple $100 bucks screwing up, FWIW.)
The flip side of that would be my wife's bike. She opted for an American-made carbon frame, built up from components, and it came in at $13k.
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Old 01-17-23, 06:28 PM
  #106  
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Originally Posted by hevysrf View Post
Retail prices for parts really aren't a factor when trek or Scott purchases 500 high end pieces and 5000 of a vendors standard parts.

Anecdotally, I've just purchased a new bike, $2199 original list, for $1449. An older unloved model to be sure, but still 30% discount for a '22 model one month into '23. Did the manufacture lose money on that sale?
Did you buy it direct from the manufacturer or from a LBS? If you bought it from a LBS, the manufacturer didn't lose anything. Any hit taken on the sale came out of the LBS. If you bought it direct, they probably didn't lose, either.
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Old 01-17-23, 07:15 PM
  #107  
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Originally Posted by Eric F View Post
Did you buy it direct from the manufacturer or from a LBS? If you bought it from a LBS, the manufacturer didn't lose anything. Any hit taken on the sale came out of the LBS. If you bought it direct, they probably didn't lose, either.

Spot Acme, online from manufacturer.
I had been considering a Co-Motion, but at my age and with my injuries, I'll never do any serious mileage. If I decide to convert it to Rohloff, I will have spent about 3k compared 7.5 k for custom bike.
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Old 01-17-23, 07:40 PM
  #108  
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Originally Posted by genejockey View Post
Though, by his apparent definition of Specialized as "Middleman", it might be a great reason for Direct To Consumer sales of raw materials.
That was someone else. I was referring to the distributor, the companies that make the parts, the dealer, etc. Every time something that ends up as your bike is sold multiple times, each time adding a margin.
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Old 01-17-23, 07:56 PM
  #109  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
The flip side of that would be my wife's bike. She opted for an American-made carbon frame, built up from components, and it came in at $13k.
If it keeps her happy, it is money well spent.
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Old 01-17-23, 08:04 PM
  #110  
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Please stop the madness
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Old 01-17-23, 08:07 PM
  #111  
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Originally Posted by Polaris OBark View Post
If it keeps her happy, it is money well spent.
You bet.
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Old 01-17-23, 08:10 PM
  #112  
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Originally Posted by Kontact View Post
That was someone else. I was referring to the distributor, the companies that make the parts, the dealer, etc. Every time something that ends up as your bike is sold multiple times, each time adding a margin.
This you?

Originally Posted by Kontact View Post
Aside from luxury price points, the main thing that raises the price is all the middlemen that each add a margin.
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Old 01-17-23, 08:22 PM
  #113  
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Originally Posted by genejockey View Post
This you?
Yes. But you're clearly referring to this poster:

Originally Posted by 7up View Post
I know someone who is into bike competitions and trains year round.Puts in thousands of miles during all four seasons even joining other races in Europe.His bike cost him a little over $7000.When I hear the name “Specialized” I now think of Specialized middlemen who don’t build anything out of their own parts but out of other peoples parts.The majority of the bike industry IMHO runs on this business model and just drives the price up just everything else but what do I know.
While I was referring to everyone above and below Specialized in the supply chain.
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Old 01-17-23, 08:32 PM
  #114  
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They actually cost the same to mfg. The difference is, the $14,000 price tag includes a $9,000 donation to the organization, Can't Recumbent Association of People.
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Old 01-17-23, 08:53 PM
  #115  
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Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
What is dumb about wondering just how much profit is made and by who on a $14,000 bike.

​​​​​No one believes you care about either of those questions.
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Old 01-17-23, 10:12 PM
  #116  
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What confuses me is there are people who can see through this charade and know of untold riches available through the excessive profits being realized by the few. Yet these same people do nothing to either partake in this easy money nor offer a low cost solution to their fellow cyclists.

Last edited by Atlas Shrugged; 01-17-23 at 11:39 PM.
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Old 01-17-23, 11:02 PM
  #117  
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Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged View Post
What confuses me is is there are people who can see through this charade and know of untold riches available through the excessive profits being realized by the few. Yet these same people do nothing to either partake in this easy money nor offer a low cost solution to their fellow cyclists.
Yeah, it's a mystery why people don't take the easy money and then spend the rest of their life riding their bike whenever and wherever they desire.
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Old 01-18-23, 05:28 AM
  #118  
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Originally Posted by Polaris OBark View Post
No.

As for the initial question, it is a troll post, not a sincere question, but one legitimate question is whether a mechanically competent consumer might be better off buying parts separately and assembling their own bike. (I recently did this for my wife, after we demo-ed a couple of $9K Trek gravel bikes. She now has an American-made titanium frame, GRX Di2, etc. bike with high-end, hand-built wheels for a bit more than half that price. Sure, a vendor could have done it cheaper, but what was relevant was what we, the consumer, might pay. I did waste a couple $100 bucks screwing up, FWIW.)
This is a far more practical question. I don't think the answer is a simple yes or no. I did look at building up a new road bike last year and with the frame and components I wanted it was actually considerably more expensive than the fully built Canyon I eventually bought for around £4,500. But in other cases it can be cheaper to buy the components and frame. All depends on what retail discounts are available on the relevant groupset and wheels (i.e. none at all last year here!). So I think it would have to be a case-by-case comparison. Last year building your own bike with current groupsets was a non-starter anyway due to COVID shortages. Even shops were struggling to get hold of groupsets for custom builds.
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Old 01-18-23, 08:51 AM
  #119  
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Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged View Post
What confuses me is there are people who can see through this charade and know of untold riches available through the excessive profits being realized by the few. Yet these same people do nothing to either partake in this easy money nor offer a low cost solution to their fellow cyclists.
Isn't that what a brandless direct from China carbon frameset is?
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Old 01-18-23, 09:14 AM
  #120  
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Originally Posted by base2 View Post
My $14,000 bike cost $14,000 to build.
I could give you an itemized parts list with receipts if you are interested.
But, for now:
$800 in spokes that are so light the float on water mated to $1300 rims and $600 hubs. (Both lighter & significantly cheaper than Enve's & DT Swiss' offerings)
$350 seat post
$250 saddle
$70 seat post clamp
$100 skewers
$200 stem
$400 handle bar
$130 headset
$130 chainrings
$250 cassette
$80 chain
$2500 crankset (with power meter)
$180 bottom bracket
$3700 frame
$700 fork
$350 brake rotors
$225 water bottle cages
$100 ti-bolts
Used/free XTR 9000 hydraulic brakes
Used/free pedals
Used/free tires
Aican shift cables & segmented housing


Did I forget anything?
Oh, yeah, the groupset!
Dura-Ace 9100 hydro-mechanical shifters on clearance $250 & matching derailleurs.

As a rough calculation the total comes to ~$13,095-ish plus the tax and shipping & import duties for a bunch of items I don't exactly remember with out digging up the receipts.

Definitely approaching $14,000
As ridden:
2C7F0889-137A-48C4-9DDE-50E3C076A460 by Richard Mozzarella, on Flickr

C5F93900-EB33-4767-B6B0-B3E375B2DCD5 by Richard Mozzarella, on Flickr

If anyone can come up with a STEEL disc brake tubeless bike in size 58cm that weighs less & costs less I'd be interested in how it was done.
I love it.

Iím curious about the claimed frame weight. 1900 seems a lot higher than Rodriguez has a reputation for building. Geez, my Swiss Cross V2 is claiming 1600gm.

It seems that most steel frames of good quality weigh 1400-1800. Yeah, thatís almost certainly measured on a 54, and I know youíre the type to actually weigh the frame rather than go by published numbers.

Possibly a switch up within the brand. I swear that I saw a Rodriguez fan post last year about an approximately 1000gm steel frame. Maybe 1200 in your size.


What I find interesting about your post, is that the bike youíve just described seems a lot better than similarly priced stock bikes from the shop. The wheels, the seatpost, the crank. The mechanical shifting was definitely a weight choice, not price.

The Aethos or whatever doesnít have anything close to that. Certainly itís the same route Iíd take if that was my budget for a new bike.

I hate to somewhat agree with the ***** posters here but a stock bike should be cheaper than a boutique frame with handpicked parts.

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Old 01-18-23, 09:18 AM
  #121  
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Originally Posted by Kontact View Post
Isn't that what a brandless direct from China carbon frameset is?
Not at all. The open mold frames are comparable to mid-tier offerings at best by the major manufacturers and no where near the top end offerings and not what we are talking about. Yes there is a savings but when you factor in questionable quality control, lack of warranty, long lead times, bare frame only with no assembly, no LBS support, dated design, you pay a real price for those savings. I have a current S Works Roubaix as well as a Carbonda CFR696 and there is absolutely no comparison yet each serves a purpose.
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Old 01-18-23, 12:05 PM
  #122  
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Originally Posted by rosefarts View Post
I love it.

Iím curious about the claimed frame weight. 1900 seems a lot higher than Rodriguez has a reputation for building. Geez, my Swiss Cross V2 is claiming 1600gm.

It seems that most steel frames of good quality weigh 1400-1800. Yeah, thatís almost certainly measured on a 54, and I know youíre the type to actually weigh the frame rather than go by published numbers.

Possibly a switch up within the brand. I swear that I saw a Rodriguez fan post last year about an approximately 1000gm steel frame. Maybe 1200 in your size.


What I find interesting about your post, is that the bike youíve just described seems a lot better than similarly priced stock bikes from the shop. The wheels, the seatpost, the crank. The mechanical shifting was definitely a weight choice, not price.

The Aethos or whatever doesnít have anything close to that. Certainly itís the same route Iíd take if that was my budget for a new bike.

I hate to somewhat agree with the ***** posters here but a stock bike should be cheaper than a boutique frame with handpicked parts.
Yeah, the final weight I had to swallow a bit hard.
I think it is the drop-outs. At 7.85 grams/cc the difference between the referenced Swiss Cross & my Rodriguez is ~44cc's (or 2.68 cubic inches) of steel. I had specified IS/post mount disc brakes & vertical dropouts. That alone drove the plate steel drop-out decision.

I am actually kicking myself a bit. These hooded style drop-outs would've saved a lot of grams, and still allowed the future freedom of an IGH/hybrid drivetrain, but confined me to flat-mount brakes with their associated pre-determined rotor size options. In the end (as pictured) I decided to run a 140mm rear rotor, but also have the freedom to run any rotor I want with the proper IS adaptor. So I guess it still worked out & I learned a new thing.

I also added a few braze-ons not in the usual weight weenie playbook. One additional was for the purpose of CX style cable routing to afford the option of a Sturmey-Archer CS-RK3. The idea was to reroute the front derailleur shift cable & housing from the seat-tube mounted pulley & plug it into a seat-stay housing stop. Then both shift cables would run moreorless parallel to each other to the dropout for their respective shifting duties safely free from the risk of heel strike caused by conventional under-bottom bracket routing. The other, of course being the CX style shift pulley to operate a road front derailleur.

The frame also has a full compliment of rack mounts, brake/chain-stay bridges, etc...That are sometimes omitted for weiner bike aspirations. I'm sure this adds a bit of grams but the versatility is welcome.

Version 1 of this bike which I first rode in January of 2021 had the Sturmey wheel I built, 160mm rotor & basically all of the parts from my Ritchey Ascent Breakaway installed & it worked well as a stopgap until the supply chain sorted itself out.

Pictured below:
Rodriguez by Richard Mozzarella, on Flickr

The bike evolved as parts became available.

Another "trick" that Rodriguez uses that I did not employ was the paint. I opted for black high gloss metallic paint with clear. The usual course is a thin application of coal black primer with a minimal clear to seal it all up. So there is probably at a 100 gram disparity there as well.

Thanks for the compliments towards component selection. I like mechanical. I even started a thread about electronic shifting after trying it. Something about electronic grated me & I seriously wondered if maybe there was something I missed. Turns out, no. It's a philosophical difference, nothing more.

I hate to admit it; And it's a secret, so don't tell anyone. But, the sadist in me also sort of likes the wait, the hunt, the research, the emails to manufacturers concerning weight limitations, making changes, the unexpected import duty uncertainty & associated PIA morning drive to the shippers downtown distribution hub to pay a tariff; Things like meeting the artisan to clarify something on the build sheet, etc...It's all very much the opposite of the plug-n-play, swipe the credit card approach. The build is almost more rewarding than the ride in it's own way.

It does make me wonder how many other "weight weenie" bikes can accept fenders, 700x42 tires, and be full-on competent gravel bikes with little more than a wheel swap & mounting of a different derailleur.

Last edited by base2; 01-18-23 at 12:13 PM.
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Old 01-18-23, 12:19 PM
  #123  
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Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged View Post
I have a current S Works Roubaix as well as a Carbonda CFR696 and there is absolutely no comparison yet each serves a purpose.
I'm curious about the differences you've noticed between the S Works and Carbonda.
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Old 01-18-23, 12:30 PM
  #124  
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Originally Posted by Kontact View Post
Isn't that what a brandless direct from China carbon frameset is?
No. Here's that video I mentioned before.
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Old 01-18-23, 01:33 PM
  #125  
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Originally Posted by Eric F View Post
I'm curious about the differences you've noticed between the S Works and Carbonda.
The weight difference is substantial.
Build quality is not as refined, with the headset, drop out and bottom bracket not as accurate.
Paint, although nice is not as durable and is fairly thickly applied
Riskier purchase with no warranty to speak of and long lead time

Overall built up with GRX 810 and is a great around-town gravel bike.
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