Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > General Cycling Discussion
Reload this Page >

actual cost to build a $14,000 bike

Notices
General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

actual cost to build a $14,000 bike

Old 01-18-23, 01:38 PM
  #126  
Eric F
Habitual User
 
Eric F's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Altadena, CA
Posts: 4,493

Bikes: 2019 Trek Procliber 9.9 SL, 2018 Storck Fascenario.3 Platinum, 2017 Bear Big Rock 1, 2003 Time VX Special Pro, 2001 Colnago VIP, 1999 Trek 9900 singlespeed, 1977 Nishiki ONP

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2750 Post(s)
Liked 4,294 Times in 2,033 Posts
Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged View Post
The weight difference is substantial.
Build quality is not as refined, with the headset, drop out and bottom bracket not as accurate.
Paint, although nice is not as durable and is fairly thickly applied
Riskier purchase with no warranty to speak of and long lead time

Overall built up with GRX 810 and is a great around-town gravel bike.
Thanks for the info. Based on that, I can see that some people might not find an issue with it, but also why some people would stay away from it. Sounds like you found an appropriate application.
Eric F is offline  
Old 01-18-23, 04:30 PM
  #127  
JohnDThompson 
Old fart
 
JohnDThompson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 24,198

Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.

Mentioned: 148 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3241 Post(s)
Liked 2,643 Times in 1,535 Posts
Originally Posted by genejockey View Post
More money gets you higher grades of carbon fiber, and a different and more complex layup which, which is done by hand, as well as the engineering and design that allows it to be made. And what are you but 11 gallons of water and a few bucks worth of chemicals?
+1 this. And not just the engineering cost of designing the frame, but also that of the tooling and equipment and procedures used to make it. That said, retail price is usually around double dealer cost.
JohnDThompson is offline  
Old 01-18-23, 07:16 PM
  #128  
Kontact
Senior Member
 
Kontact's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 4,641
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2902 Post(s)
Liked 434 Times in 278 Posts
Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
+1 this. And not just the engineering cost of designing the frame, but also that of the tooling and equipment and procedures used to make it. That said, retail price is usually around double dealer cost.
Dealer margin is about 1/3 or less.

All carbon frames are laid up by hand.
Kontact is offline  
Likes For Kontact:
Old 01-18-23, 08:38 PM
  #129  
big john
Senior Member
 
big john's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: In the foothills of Los Angeles County
Posts: 21,903
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6110 Post(s)
Liked 6,060 Times in 3,063 Posts
Originally Posted by rosefarts View Post

It seems that most steel frames of good quality weigh 1400-1800. Yeah, thatís almost certainly measured on a 54, and I know youíre the type to actually weigh the frame rather than go by published numbers.

Possibly a switch up within the brand. I swear that I saw a Rodriguez fan post last year about an approximately 1000gm steel frame. Maybe 1200 in your size.
I can't imagine a steel frame @1000 grams. I heard about a special 52cm Prestige frame @1200 but that's not reality for most of us. I think 1700 is about what Cinelli and Colnago steel frames are. My 62cm Gunnar is about 1800 grams. I think 1400 would be extremely light for a daily driver type steel frame.
big john is offline  
Old 01-18-23, 08:57 PM
  #130  
Camilo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,105
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 832 Post(s)
Liked 797 Times in 506 Posts
My 80's Sannino, very nicely made with Columbus SLX tubing, 54cm, is a little more than 1900g. I have no doubt that there are nice steel frames that are lighter, but I can't imagine nearly half as heavy. It wasn't hard to build it at around 20-21lbs.
Camilo is offline  
Old 01-18-23, 10:47 PM
  #131  
Ogsarg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Hollister, CA (not the surf town)
Posts: 1,604

Bikes: 2019 Specialized Roubaix Comp Di2, 2009 Roubaix, early 90's Giant Iguana

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 592 Post(s)
Liked 1,178 Times in 466 Posts
I would frame the question differently. How much does it cost to set up and maintain a company that develops state of the art racing bicycles, sponsors racers, markets their products at events around the world, has worldwide distributors, etc. Bicycles are not much different that many other manufactured goods in that the cost of the product itself is just a part of what your paying for.

If you believe a product is superior to others, then you have to expect to pay for the infrastructure that went into its development.
Ogsarg is offline  
Likes For Ogsarg:
Old 01-18-23, 11:13 PM
  #132  
rosefarts
With a mighty wind
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 2,250
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 902 Post(s)
Liked 647 Times in 382 Posts
Originally Posted by big john View Post
I can't imagine a steel frame @1000 grams. I heard about a special 52cm Prestige frame @1200 but that's not reality for most of us. I think 1700 is about what Cinelli and Colnago steel frames are. My 62cm Gunnar is about 1800 grams. I think 1400 would be extremely light for a daily driver type steel frame.
I am not sure.

There was definitely some banter on this site about the ultralight R&E frames.

Possibly a super small one.

Steel really punishes the tall weight conscious people. Iím 5í9 and shrinking and really like my 54cm frames. That 62 you mentioned would have to weigh a lot more, even in thin tapered tubes.
rosefarts is offline  
Old 01-19-23, 12:07 AM
  #133  
big john
Senior Member
 
big john's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: In the foothills of Los Angeles County
Posts: 21,903
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6110 Post(s)
Liked 6,060 Times in 3,063 Posts
Originally Posted by rosefarts View Post
I am not sure.

There was definitely some banter on this site about the ultralight R&E frames.

Possibly a super small one.

Steel really punishes the tall weight conscious people. Iím 5í9 and shrinking and really like my 54cm frames. That 62 you mentioned would have to weigh a lot more, even in thin tapered tubes.
It's True Temper OX Platinum tubing, whatever that means. It's actually the third True Temper road bike I've had. I don't think I could ride an ultra light steel bike.
big john is offline  
Old 01-19-23, 12:10 AM
  #134  
7up
Full Member
 
7up's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Whitestone,Queens/Bayonne N.J.
Posts: 330

Bikes: Aurelia*Bianchi*Cannondale*Colnago*Dahon*Giant*Haro*Lynsky*Monkey Faction*Origin8*Panasonic*Paramont*Peugeot*Ross*Schwinn*SE*Specialized*Trek

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 48 Post(s)
Liked 20 Times in 12 Posts
IMHO I can state that as soon as your out the door and put that wheelset on the concrete and half a butt cheek on that saddle , that $14,000 work of art just depreciated to $7,000! As lite weight as it was,it was built solid as a rock.
7up is offline  
Old 01-19-23, 12:43 AM
  #135  
Maelochs
Senior Member
 
Maelochs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 14,485

Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2017 Workswell 093, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE

Mentioned: 143 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7088 Post(s)
Liked 2,507 Times in 1,372 Posts
Not sure how many people here run businesses or need to set prices.

(Pretty sure about which posters don't.)
Maelochs is offline  
Likes For Maelochs:
Old 01-19-23, 06:44 AM
  #136  
livedarklions
High Performance Noodler
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 14,820

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7804 Post(s)
Liked 8,334 Times in 4,659 Posts
Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
Not sure how many people here run businesses or need to set prices.

(Pretty sure about which posters don't.)

Given the identity and obvious trolling agenda of the OP, I find the thread drift into the subject of minimizing the weight of a 62 cm DF bike hilarious and something to be encouraged.

Keep at it, big john ! It's interesting to see how you approach this even for people who ride a 54.
livedarklions is online now  
Likes For livedarklions:
Old 01-19-23, 07:34 AM
  #137  
Trakhak
Senior Member
 
Trakhak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 3,837
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1542 Post(s)
Liked 1,565 Times in 913 Posts
Originally Posted by Kontact View Post
Dealer margin is about 1/3 or less.

All carbon frames are laid up by hand.
Yes on both counts. I'm not sure where the estimate (bikes costing retailers about half of the selling price) that JohnDThompson gave came from. But I know that 1/3 or less is about right for the era when he was a bike builder at Trek, in the 1980s. Margins have crept up a bit since then, or so I gather. But I find it hard to believe that any dealers are consistently selling bikes at double the dealer cost.
Trakhak is offline  
Likes For Trakhak:
Old 01-19-23, 07:56 AM
  #138  
Kontact
Senior Member
 
Kontact's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 4,641
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2902 Post(s)
Liked 434 Times in 278 Posts
My old midline Fuji Taira has a 4 lbs frame in size 52. That's around 1800 grams.

1000g S3 frame:
https://www.rodbikes.com/articles/s3.html
Kontact is offline  
Old 01-19-23, 08:08 AM
  #139  
PeteHski
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 4,958
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2497 Post(s)
Liked 2,677 Times in 1,686 Posts
Originally Posted by rosefarts View Post

What I find interesting about your post, is that the bike youíve just described seems a lot better than similarly priced stock bikes from the shop. The wheels, the seatpost, the crank. The mechanical shifting was definitely a weight choice, not price.

The Aethos or whatever doesnít have anything close to that.
It doesn't seem "a lot better" to me. Just very different. An S-works Aethos would be similar money with top-tier components throughout, including latest gen DA Di2 etc. Frameset cost is pretty similar too if you were building it up from scratch.
PeteHski is offline  
Old 01-20-23, 06:23 PM
  #140  
smd4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 2,878

Bikes: 1989 Cinelli Supercorsa

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1770 Post(s)
Liked 1,324 Times in 835 Posts
Originally Posted by Trakhak View Post
I'm not sure where the estimate (bikes costing retailers about half of the selling price) that JohnDThompson gave came from.
Probably because a lot of the other stuff in the bike shop is keystoned, and he extrapolated to the bikes themselves.
smd4 is online now  
Likes For smd4:
Old 01-20-23, 07:44 PM
  #141  
Kontact
Senior Member
 
Kontact's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 4,641
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2902 Post(s)
Liked 434 Times in 278 Posts
Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged View Post
What confuses me is there are people who can see through this charade and know of untold riches available through the excessive profits being realized by the few. Yet these same people do nothing to either partake in this easy money nor offer a low cost solution to their fellow cyclists.
I asked about Chinese bikes because that was the closest thing to a nearly free carbon frame that might apply to what you are saying here. But that must not have been what you're talking about.

So what are you talking about? Who should be seeing through the charade and use advanced design techniques to offer cutting edge bikes for cheap? And why would they do that?
Kontact is offline  
Old 01-20-23, 07:55 PM
  #142  
seypat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,039
Mentioned: 67 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2819 Post(s)
Liked 1,988 Times in 1,241 Posts
Originally Posted by big john View Post
I can't imagine a steel frame @1000 grams. I heard about a special 52cm Prestige frame @1200 but that's not reality for most of us. I think 1700 is about what Cinelli and Colnago steel frames are. My 62cm Gunnar is about 1800 grams. I think 1400 would be extremely light for a daily driver type steel frame.
I have an 85 Centurion Prestige(Prestige tubing) that weighs under 20lbs stock. DA 7400 components and 32h tubulars. I also have 2 Centurion Turbos. Both are under 21lbs despite having triples/long cage RDs and 28 or 30t cassettes on back. No carbon on any of three. The Prestige is a 54. The Turbos are 56s.
seypat is online now  
Old 01-20-23, 08:19 PM
  #143  
big john
Senior Member
 
big john's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: In the foothills of Los Angeles County
Posts: 21,903
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6110 Post(s)
Liked 6,060 Times in 3,063 Posts
Originally Posted by seypat View Post
I have an 85 Centurion Prestige(Prestige tubing) that weighs under 20lbs stock. DA 7400 components and 32h tubulars. I also have 2 Centurion Turbos. Both are under 21lbs despite having triples/long cage RDs and 28 or 30t cassettes on back. No carbon on any of three. The Prestige is a 54. The Turbos are 56s.
I think my Gunnar is about 21 pounds and it has a triple, 36 spoke Open Pros, and a not lightweight Kestrel carbon fork.

I had a Prestige tubed Landshark from 1990. It was light but I never weighed it.

I'm surprised to read that link above about the 1000 gram steel tri frame from 2005.I didn't think it was possible but it was a tiny tri bike for a tiny woman, Had 650 wheels and was her "race day" bike.
big john is offline  
Likes For big john:
Old 01-20-23, 08:25 PM
  #144  
Rolla
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 2,888
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1346 Post(s)
Liked 3,264 Times in 1,437 Posts
Originally Posted by Kontact View Post
So what are you talking about? Who should be seeing through the charade and use advanced design techniques to offer cutting edge bikes for cheap? And why would they do that?

I may have misinterpreted, but I read it as sarcasm.
Rolla is offline  
Old 01-20-23, 09:53 PM
  #145  
Kontact
Senior Member
 
Kontact's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 4,641
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2902 Post(s)
Liked 434 Times in 278 Posts
Originally Posted by Rolla View Post
I may have misinterpreted, but I read it as sarcasm.
I figured, but I'm not sure to whom or why. Companies make expensive bikes because of the money, not love

You can win the TdF on an open mold bike with Rival. Everything beyond that is diminishing returns and prestige.
Kontact is offline  
Old 01-20-23, 09:57 PM
  #146  
smd4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 2,878

Bikes: 1989 Cinelli Supercorsa

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1770 Post(s)
Liked 1,324 Times in 835 Posts
Originally Posted by Kontact View Post
I figured, but I'm not sure to whom or why. Companies make expensive bikes because of the money, not love

You can win the TdF on an open mold bike with Rival. Everything beyond that is diminishing returns and prestige.
And itís been done so often!
smd4 is online now  
Old 01-20-23, 11:17 PM
  #147  
genejockey 
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
 
genejockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 13,661

Bikes: Litespeed Ultimate, Ultegra; Canyon Endurace, 105; Battaglin MAX, Chorus; Bianchi 928 Veloce; Ritchey Road Logic, Dura Ace; Cannondale R500 RX100; Schwinn Circuit, Sante; Lotus Supreme, Dura Ace

Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7712 Post(s)
Liked 8,333 Times in 4,251 Posts
Originally Posted by Kontact View Post
I figured, but I'm not sure to whom or why. Companies make expensive bikes because of the money, not love

You can win the TdF on an open mold bike with Rival. Everything beyond that is diminishing returns and prestige.
Hmmm. Well, a full Rival groupset is 1.2 lbs heavier than a Red groupset. Let's say Tadaj Pogacar climbs Alpe d'Huez at the same power he did in 2022, when his time was 39:12. Now let's add 1.2 lbs to his bike and keep everything else the same. He comes in 13.8 seconds slower. Now, his margin of victory in 2022 was 59 seconds. You just cut that to 45 seconds, and this is only ONE climb on ONE stage out of 21.

So, sure, MAYBE you can win the TdF with Rival, but if everyone else is using Red or Dura Ace or Super Record, you're hobbling yourself, perhaps enough that you're on the second step of the podium and watching somebody else get the yellow jersey. And that's leaving aside the question of the frame.
__________________
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."

"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
genejockey is online now  
Likes For genejockey:
Old 01-20-23, 11:58 PM
  #148  
Eric F
Habitual User
 
Eric F's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Altadena, CA
Posts: 4,493

Bikes: 2019 Trek Procliber 9.9 SL, 2018 Storck Fascenario.3 Platinum, 2017 Bear Big Rock 1, 2003 Time VX Special Pro, 2001 Colnago VIP, 1999 Trek 9900 singlespeed, 1977 Nishiki ONP

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2750 Post(s)
Liked 4,294 Times in 2,033 Posts
Originally Posted by genejockey View Post
Hmmm. Well, a full Rival groupset is 1.2 lbs heavier than a Red groupset. Let's say Tadaj Pogacar climbs Alpe d'Huez at the same power he did in 2022, when his time was 39:12. Now let's add 1.2 lbs to his bike and keep everything else the same. He comes in 13.8 seconds slower. Now, his margin of victory in 2022 was 59 seconds. You just cut that to 45 seconds, and this is only ONE climb on ONE stage out of 21.

So, sure, MAYBE you can win the TdF with Rival, but if everyone else is using Red or Dura Ace or Super Record, you're hobbling yourself, perhaps enough that you're on the second step of the podium and watching somebody else get the yellow jersey. And that's leaving aside the question of the frame.
...or the energy expense of dragging the heavier bike around France at high speed, and up big climbs, for a lot of days in a row, before you even start up L'Alpe.
Eric F is offline  
Old 01-21-23, 12:00 AM
  #149  
Eric F
Habitual User
 
Eric F's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Altadena, CA
Posts: 4,493

Bikes: 2019 Trek Procliber 9.9 SL, 2018 Storck Fascenario.3 Platinum, 2017 Bear Big Rock 1, 2003 Time VX Special Pro, 2001 Colnago VIP, 1999 Trek 9900 singlespeed, 1977 Nishiki ONP

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2750 Post(s)
Liked 4,294 Times in 2,033 Posts
Originally Posted by Kontact View Post
I figured, but I'm not sure to whom or why. Companies make expensive bikes because of the money, not love

You can win the TdF on an open mold bike with Rival. Everything beyond that is diminishing returns and prestige.
Sure you can! Go for it. Please let us know how it goes for you.
Eric F is offline  
Likes For Eric F:
Old 01-21-23, 12:11 AM
  #150  
Eric F
Habitual User
 
Eric F's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Altadena, CA
Posts: 4,493

Bikes: 2019 Trek Procliber 9.9 SL, 2018 Storck Fascenario.3 Platinum, 2017 Bear Big Rock 1, 2003 Time VX Special Pro, 2001 Colnago VIP, 1999 Trek 9900 singlespeed, 1977 Nishiki ONP

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2750 Post(s)
Liked 4,294 Times in 2,033 Posts
Originally Posted by Trakhak View Post
Yes on both counts. I'm not sure where the estimate (bikes costing retailers about half of the selling price) that JohnDThompson gave came from. But I know that 1/3 or less is about right for the era when he was a bike builder at Trek, in the 1980s. Margins have crept up a bit since then, or so I gather. But I find it hard to believe that any dealers are consistently selling bikes at double the dealer cost.
I posted this in the other $14k bike thread shortly before it was closed...

I reached out to an old friend who has worked in the bike industry for many decades, and he had some factual information to share with me on this topic. Shop cost for high-end bikes is usually about 25-35% below retail (varies depending on the brand). For a $14k bike, the guess of $5k is a little high, but isn’t far off.

There’s some things to consider, however. Some bikes are delivered mostly assembled, and are fairly quick for the shop to finish. Others are just a frame, fork, and boxes of parts, which takes hours of shop labor time to build (especially with today’s current internal routing). Most shops aren’t selling very many of these bikes, and they may be still sitting in the window past the time when the manufacturer has required payment. It also isn’t rare for shops to offer discounts (10% is typical in my area) to local club/team members, and loyal customers, so the actual sales price might be a good chunk lower than full sticker price.
Eric F is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.