Rear brake superfluous ?
01-17-23, 09:37 AM
#26
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fwiw, I always wear out the pads on my rear brakes first, both mtb and road. I'm about 200 pounds and use the rear to help control speed on twisty roads. In fact, I almost always use both brakes during normal stopping, even in the city.
On the dirt, the front brake can get you into trouble when things are loose and rocky. Braking early for turns is the key.
Riding motorcycles in the dirt lets you practice sliding the rear wheel around and it works on mountain bikes, too. Obviously, road bikes are not supposed to be drifted into turns but those reactions learned on dirt can help if you do get the rear wheel loose.
On the dirt, the front brake can get you into trouble when things are loose and rocky. Braking early for turns is the key.
Riding motorcycles in the dirt lets you practice sliding the rear wheel around and it works on mountain bikes, too. Obviously, road bikes are not supposed to be drifted into turns but those reactions learned on dirt can help if you do get the rear wheel loose.
01-17-23, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by wolfchild
This whole trend of riding with just one front brake is just a silly and stupid urban trend started by fixie hipsters trying to look cool and hardcore.
This is why cool kids shouldn't tease the dorks in middle school; it scars them for a lifetime.
In truth, fixed gear riders often go brakeless or front-only simply because their track frames aren't drilled for brakes.
But don't let me interrupt your "I am the real cyclist. All others are posers" mantra.
Last edited by Rolla; 01-17-23 at 10:15 AM.
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01-17-23, 10:24 AM
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One time when I was left hooked by a car I was very glad I had a quality working rear brake. I was able to lean the bicycle a bit and hit that rear brake hard and it caused the rear wheel to slide in a controlled manner and the bicycle did a 90 degree instant turn and was parallel to that vehicle. Had i not had a good working rear brake I would have hit that vehicle.
Cheers
Cheers
01-17-23, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by smd4
Not having a rear brake would upset the front/rear balance of the bike.
01-17-23, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Koyote
I hope this is a poor attempt at humor.
01-17-23, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by smd4
It's actually pretty funny, but I suppose only to someone who saw a similar post in the disc brake thread.
01-17-23, 11:11 AM
#33
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Originally Posted by Ironfish653
Funny, MTB guys find it useful to be able to lock up the rear wheel. A locked rear wheel is also fairly easy to control, if you've got your weight back, like you should, when you're braking hard.
Riding MTBs and Motos, on loose surfaces, and on the street you can feel the effects of braking one wheel or the other much more distinctly than a rigid road bike. Loose surfaces will show you very quickly, the way braking cuts into the "traction budget" available to your wheels for things like steering and lateral grip.
Motos, with their far higher weight, and suspension, can demonstrate much more clearly how braking one wheel or the other affects the distribution of weight from front to rear that's not as obvious on a rigid road bike.
For example, on a bumpy corner, you want to shift your weight back, and keep your arms loose to lessen the shocks, but that takes away from the weight you need for grip, and keeping the wheel in contact with the road surface. Trailing the rear brake makes the frame rotate around the rear axle, applying force (but not weight) to the front wheel, helping keep it on the road, and adding to the available grip.
Brakes aren't an either / or all-or-nothing proposition either, and I don't know why that trope persists around here that managing two handbrakes is so challenging.
My feeling on this is that unlike MTBs and motorcycles, a road bike (on good pavement) lets you get away with bad habits until a much higher threshold, until it bites you; at which point " Two Handbrakes is too hard!"
Riding MTBs and Motos, on loose surfaces, and on the street you can feel the effects of braking one wheel or the other much more distinctly than a rigid road bike. Loose surfaces will show you very quickly, the way braking cuts into the "traction budget" available to your wheels for things like steering and lateral grip.
Motos, with their far higher weight, and suspension, can demonstrate much more clearly how braking one wheel or the other affects the distribution of weight from front to rear that's not as obvious on a rigid road bike.
For example, on a bumpy corner, you want to shift your weight back, and keep your arms loose to lessen the shocks, but that takes away from the weight you need for grip, and keeping the wheel in contact with the road surface. Trailing the rear brake makes the frame rotate around the rear axle, applying force (but not weight) to the front wheel, helping keep it on the road, and adding to the available grip.
Brakes aren't an either / or all-or-nothing proposition either, and I don't know why that trope persists around here that managing two handbrakes is so challenging.
My feeling on this is that unlike MTBs and motorcycles, a road bike (on good pavement) lets you get away with bad habits until a much higher threshold, until it bites you; at which point " Two Handbrakes is too hard!"
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01-17-23, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Koyote
Coming from someone else, it might've been funny. Coming from you, it easily could've been another of your wacky claims.
01-17-23, 11:25 AM
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I also went over the bars by just grabbing the front brake. I have scars to remind me.
01-17-23, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Kontact
my own experiences in tight, hilly, wet conditions that lead me to believe that rear brakes are of extremely limited value in downhill turns. I wouldn't want to not have a rear brake, but I don't think there are many circumstances where it will save you instead of contributing to a loss of directional control.
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01-17-23, 11:30 AM
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Koyote clearly, we are not erudite enough cyclists to understand this sophisticated brand of humor. Yea, our tires are too wide, our bicycles not Italian enough and our sock lines not sharply defined.
Go, now and do your penance: an hour of hill repeats, and 10 Hail Mercxxs. Then maybe we'll understand what he's blathering on about.
Go, now and do your penance: an hour of hill repeats, and 10 Hail Mercxxs. Then maybe we'll understand what he's blathering on about.
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01-17-23, 11:37 AM
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And an observation from this guy who has ridden a lot of miles fix gear, always with two good brakes. Rear brakes work really well on fix gears; in fact better than on road bikes because you have instant lock-up feedback. A tool I used in snow and ice many, many times in my midwest and northeast commuter days when I rode n everything. This gave me braking in really slippery conditions where touching the front brake was a way to greet the pavement/ice instantly.
01-17-23, 11:51 AM
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Years ago when I was learning to ride motorcycles I was told to apply the rear brakes hard first and then follow with the front brakes. The reason is by applying the rear brake hard, you squat the rear end. Now you apply the front also- the whole bike squats down and you have a well controlled two wheel braking. If you apply front brake first the front will squat and the rear will rise, and you are on your way to an endo.
On a bike with no suspension, the effect is far less pronounced, but I still find it beneficial to brake the rear hard first, and then follow a split second later with the front. As Cyccocommute says- it you over-rely on the front, you will find yourself lifting the rear tire.
On a bike with no suspension, the effect is far less pronounced, but I still find it beneficial to brake the rear hard first, and then follow a split second later with the front. As Cyccocommute says- it you over-rely on the front, you will find yourself lifting the rear tire.
01-17-23, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Ironfish653
Koyote clearly, we are not erudite enough cyclists to understand this sophisticated brand of humor. Yea, our tires are too wide, our bicycles not Italian enough and our sock lines not sharply defined.
01-17-23, 12:02 PM
#43
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Originally Posted by CrimsonEclipse
Step #1: Ride down a steep hill with only the front brake.
Step #2: Have next of kin post results.
Step #2: Have next of kin post results.
Redundancy in key systems is a concept deeply in-bedded in the practices and regulations of the aircraft world, the marine world, the automotive world ... Just one brake and a freewheel between the engine and drive wheel? The designers and regulators of any of those other modes of transit would shudder.
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01-17-23, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by icemilkcoffee
Years ago when I was learning to ride motorcycles I was told to apply the rear brakes hard first and then follow with the front brakes. The reason is by applying the rear brake hard, you squat the rear end. Now you apply the front also- the whole bike squats down and you have a well controlled two wheel braking. If you apply front brake first the front will squat and the rear will rise, and you are on your way to an endo.
On a bike with no suspension, the effect is far less pronounced, but I still find it beneficial to brake the rear hard first, and then follow a split second later with the front. As Cyccocommute says- it you over-rely on the front, you will find yourself lifting the rear tire.
On a bike with no suspension, the effect is far less pronounced, but I still find it beneficial to brake the rear hard first, and then follow a split second later with the front. As Cyccocommute says- it you over-rely on the front, you will find yourself lifting the rear tire.
01-17-23, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by smd4
Yep. Don't know what you mean with the sock lines, though. Who has lines on their socks?
01-17-23, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by wolfchild
Riding with only one functional brake is just plain dumb.
01-17-23, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Eric F
A big difference between bicycles and motorcycles is that our body is a much larger percentage of the total weight of the package, and shifting our weight has a larger affect on braking dynamics. Shifting our body rearward as we brake hard keeps the rear wheel firmly planted, and contributing to deceleration.
01-17-23, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
Yep, too many cyclists use motorcycles as proof of some bike-handling principle, but totally ignore the huge difference in bike-to-rider weight ratios and how it changes things.
01-17-23, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Eric F
That hasn't been my experience. For the most part, I try to do as much of my braking as possible while the bike is still going straight, using both brakes, with the front doing most of the work. Once I'm in the turn, I try to stay off the front brake and let the front tire's work be as dedicated as possible to just traction and direction. Any additional speed control is managed by the rear brake. Understanding how body (COG) position plays a part in cornering dynamics is an important factor in this, too.
01-17-23, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
Yep, too many cyclists use motorcycles as proof of some bike-handling principle, but totally ignore the huge difference in bike-to-rider weight ratios and how it changes things.
