Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > General Cycling Discussion
Reload this Page >

Compass tires/Rene Herse vs Panaracer

Notices
General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

Compass tires/Rene Herse vs Panaracer

Old 01-28-23, 07:14 PM
  #26  
ignominious poltroon
 
Polaris OBark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 3,860
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2161 Post(s)
Liked 3,279 Times in 1,714 Posts
Originally Posted by Lombard
I have run both the Panaracer GK Slicks and the Rene Herse Extralights which are supposed to be ooooooh so smooth. I honestly cannot tell the difference other than the Rene Herse tires make my wallet lighter.
This is required reading (right up there with the thread about the guy setting his wheel on fire while trying to burn off his dork disk):

Compass Tire Hype: Warning
Polaris OBark is offline  
Old 01-28-23, 07:34 PM
  #27  
Sock Puppet
 
Lombard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2022
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 1,701

Bikes: 2014 Cannondale Synapse Carbon, 2017 Jamis Renegade Exploit and too many others to mention.

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1031 Post(s)
Liked 863 Times in 573 Posts
Originally Posted by Polaris OBark
This is required reading (right up there with the thread about the guy setting his wheel on fire while trying to burn off his dork disk):

Compass Tire Hype: Warning
To be fair, he didn't indicate what tires he was riding before he became a Rene Herse convert. They could have been garden hoses.
Lombard is offline  
Old 01-28-23, 08:45 PM
  #28  
ignominious poltroon
 
Polaris OBark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 3,860
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2161 Post(s)
Liked 3,279 Times in 1,714 Posts
All tires are gardenhosen if they aren't Rene Herse.
Polaris OBark is offline  
Likes For Polaris OBark:
Old 01-29-23, 06:02 AM
  #29  
Fat n slow
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Saratoga, NY
Posts: 4,188

Bikes: Cervelo R3, Giant Revolt

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3169 Post(s)
Liked 2,006 Times in 950 Posts
Originally Posted by GhostRider62
I used to use them in may different sizes but only in extralight casings. In my testing, if you run heavy butyl tubes, you are wasting your money. For whatever reason the extralegere versions run much better with latex tubes. I stopped running them tubeless due to sloppy fit and blowoff. I don't find them worth the money. There are faster, cheaper, more durable, and longer lasting tires for my application. So, if want to use them with latex tubes? Maybe. $90-96 per tire plus shipping is steep. The casings are so, so supple. Just don't pinch them to check tire pressure, that popping noise of ruptured threads can be unnerving.
Say more about the blowoff- that’s what’s stopping me from picking up some Bon Jon ELs
phrantic09 is offline  
Old 01-29-23, 06:51 AM
  #30  
Thread Killer
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 12,346

Bikes: 15 Kinesis Racelight 4S, 76 Motebecane Gran Jubilée, 17 Dedacciai Gladiatore2, 12 Breezer Venturi, 09 Dahon Mariner, 12 Mercier Nano, 95 DeKerf Team SL, 19 Tern Rally, 21 Breezer Doppler Cafe+, 19 T-Lab X3, 91 Serotta CII

Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3035 Post(s)
Liked 1,614 Times in 990 Posts
Originally Posted by phrantic09
Say more about the blowoff- that’s what’s stopping me from picking up some Bon Jon ELs
Don’t trip; Bon Jon ELs with Aerothan tubes are extremely sweet, like 95% as sweet as running them tubeless…if you could. I mean, you can run them tubeless, and I did, it’s just a matter of how much BS you want to put up with to do it. I had one blow off the rim while inflating it, trying to get the beads to lock.

That was the final straw for me, and I happily been running them with Aerothan TPU for +2 years now.
chaadster is offline  
Likes For chaadster:
Old 01-29-23, 07:39 AM
  #31  
Sock Puppet
 
Lombard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2022
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 1,701

Bikes: 2014 Cannondale Synapse Carbon, 2017 Jamis Renegade Exploit and too many others to mention.

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1031 Post(s)
Liked 863 Times in 573 Posts
Originally Posted by GhostRider62
I used to use them in may different sizes but only in extralight casings. In my testing, if you run heavy butyl tubes, you are wasting your money.
Hmmm. Maybe this is why I can't tell a difference between Panaracer GK Slicks and Rene Herse Extralights. I run them with standard butyl tubes.
Lombard is offline  
Old 01-29-23, 02:31 PM
  #32  
working on my sandal tan
 
ThermionicScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 22,612

Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers), All-City Space Horse (hers)

Mentioned: 98 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3867 Post(s)
Liked 2,549 Times in 1,570 Posts
Originally Posted by Lombard
I have run both the Panaracer GK Slicks and the Rene Herse Extralights which are supposed to be ooooooh so smooth. I honestly cannot tell the difference other than the Rene Herse tires make my wallet lighter.
Both attempt to be "fast" tires, but using different approaches: GravelKings use a thinner tread, RHs use a lighter casing. If you need long tread life or a little better puncture resistance, the RHs have the advantage, but I've been pretty content so far with the durability (and cost) of the GravelKing type.
__________________
Originally Posted by chandltp
There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
Originally Posted by noglider
People in this forum are not typical.
RUSA #7498
ThermionicScott is offline  
Likes For ThermionicScott:
Old 01-29-23, 10:27 PM
  #33  
ignominious poltroon
 
Polaris OBark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 3,860
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2161 Post(s)
Liked 3,279 Times in 1,714 Posts
I've run Barlow Pass EL with and without tubes and can't tell much (if any) difference.

For the wider tires (44 mm, 48mm, 55 mm), I have never tried with tubes. I imagine I would feel more of a difference.

I think their official advice is not to run anything narrow than 35mm tubeless.

IIRC, Jan says tubeless setups with their tires are marginally slower.
Polaris OBark is offline  
Old 01-30-23, 07:45 AM
  #34  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: northern Deep South
Posts: 8,797

Bikes: Fuji Touring, Novara Randonee

Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2547 Post(s)
Liked 1,864 Times in 1,171 Posts
Originally Posted by Lombard
I have run both the Panaracer GK Slicks and the Rene Herse Extralights which are supposed to be ooooooh so smooth. I honestly cannot tell the difference other than the Rene Herse tires make my wallet lighter.
Well then, it's obvious Rene Herse makes you faster, because of all the weight you're carrying when you ride the Panaracer!
pdlamb is offline  
Likes For pdlamb:
Old 01-30-23, 10:46 AM
  #35  
Sock Puppet
 
Lombard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2022
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 1,701

Bikes: 2014 Cannondale Synapse Carbon, 2017 Jamis Renegade Exploit and too many others to mention.

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1031 Post(s)
Liked 863 Times in 573 Posts
Originally Posted by pdlamb
Well then, it's obvious Rene Herse makes you faster, because of all the weight you're carrying when you ride the Panaracer!
Unless I leave my wallet at home.
Lombard is offline  
Old 01-30-23, 12:23 PM
  #36  
Fat n slow
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Saratoga, NY
Posts: 4,188

Bikes: Cervelo R3, Giant Revolt

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3169 Post(s)
Liked 2,006 Times in 950 Posts
Originally Posted by chaadster
Don’t trip; Bon Jon ELs with Aerothan tubes are extremely sweet, like 95% as sweet as running them tubeless…if you could. I mean, you can run them tubeless, and I did, it’s just a matter of how much BS you want to put up with to do it. I had one blow off the rim while inflating it, trying to get the beads to lock.

That was the final straw for me, and I happily been running them with Aerothan TPU for +2 years now.
I like the added insurance of the sealant. If my wheels weren’t hookless, I’d feel more comfortable
phrantic09 is offline  
Old 01-30-23, 12:39 PM
  #37  
Advocatus Diaboli
 
Sy Reene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Wherever I am
Posts: 8,556

Bikes: Merlin Cyrene, Nashbar steel CX

Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4675 Post(s)
Liked 1,508 Times in 983 Posts
Originally Posted by phrantic09
I like the added insurance of the sealant. If my wheels weren’t hookless, I’d feel more comfortable
AFAIK, you can run tires approved for hookless with tubes on hookless rims. Though I don't know if you can inflate to higher pressures in doing so than is advised running without tubes.. I'm kinda hazy on the industry direction there.
Sy Reene is offline  
Old 01-30-23, 12:48 PM
  #38  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 7,670
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6817 Post(s)
Liked 10,735 Times in 4,589 Posts
I ran the RH Bon Jon Pass (standard casing) tires for about 7500 miles on one of my bikes. They were terrific: very smooth and supple, great grip, and very puncture resistant -- I ran them tubeless, and don't recall ever even seeing a little sealant splattered on my frame. I certainly never had to put in a tube mid-ride.

The tires also lasted a looong time. RH uses thick rubber and no puncture protection layer in those tires. I got 3300 miles on a rear and still had no cords showing through when it was replaced; the front tire went 7500 miles and still had plenty of life left.

Eventually, I had to take off one of the tires for some reason (can't recall why) and couldn't get it to seat on my rim...so I bought a couple of Gravelking Slick+ tires, which are fine. Not as supple as the RH, though.
Koyote is online now  
Old 01-31-23, 07:02 AM
  #39  
Thread Killer
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 12,346

Bikes: 15 Kinesis Racelight 4S, 76 Motebecane Gran Jubilée, 17 Dedacciai Gladiatore2, 12 Breezer Venturi, 09 Dahon Mariner, 12 Mercier Nano, 95 DeKerf Team SL, 19 Tern Rally, 21 Breezer Doppler Cafe+, 19 T-Lab X3, 91 Serotta CII

Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3035 Post(s)
Liked 1,614 Times in 990 Posts
Originally Posted by phrantic09
I like the added insurance of the sealant. If my wheels weren’t hookless, I’d feel more comfortable
Oh…I’ve got no idea about hookless rim compatibility of any of the Herse tires. I should have said I was referring to hooked rims. Sorry.
chaadster is offline  
Old 01-31-23, 08:30 AM
  #40  
Sock Puppet
 
Lombard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2022
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 1,701

Bikes: 2014 Cannondale Synapse Carbon, 2017 Jamis Renegade Exploit and too many others to mention.

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1031 Post(s)
Liked 863 Times in 573 Posts
Originally Posted by Koyote
The tires also lasted a looong time. RH uses thick rubber and no puncture protection layer in those tires. I got 3300 miles on a rear and still had no cords showing through when it was replaced; the front tire went 7500 miles and still had plenty of life left.
That life is pretty much typical of a good road tire. 3000 miles is about what I get out of a rear Vittoria Rubino. Front tires generally last more than 3 times longer than rears.
Lombard is offline  
Old 01-31-23, 08:34 AM
  #41  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 7,670
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6817 Post(s)
Liked 10,735 Times in 4,589 Posts
Originally Posted by Lombard
That life is pretty much typical of a good road tire.
Yes, true for many road tires. But in my experience, tires with that ride quality -- smooth and supple -- don't last as long.
Koyote is online now  
Old 01-31-23, 08:57 AM
  #42  
Sock Puppet
 
Lombard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2022
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 1,701

Bikes: 2014 Cannondale Synapse Carbon, 2017 Jamis Renegade Exploit and too many others to mention.

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1031 Post(s)
Liked 863 Times in 573 Posts
Originally Posted by Koyote
Yes, true for many road tires. But in my experience, tires with that ride quality -- smooth and supple -- don't last as long.
For what it's worth, I was talked into buying a set of oooooh so smooth and supple Vittoria Corsas. They cost twice as much as Vittoria Rubinos and I could not tell a difference in ride quality. I could however tell a difference in ride quality between Vittoria Rubinos and Maxxis ReFuses. The ReFuses are bombproof, but ride like a garden hose.
Lombard is offline  
Likes For Lombard:
Old 01-31-23, 09:01 AM
  #43  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 7,670
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6817 Post(s)
Liked 10,735 Times in 4,589 Posts
Originally Posted by Lombard
For what it's worth, I was talked into buying a set of oooooh so smooth and supple Vittoria Corsas. They cost twice as much as Vittoria Rubinos and I could not tell a difference in ride quality. I could however tell a difference in ride quality between Vittoria Rubinos and Maxxis ReFuses. The ReFuses are bombproof, but ride like a garden hose.
When I was road racing (15+ years ago), I rode Gommitalia open tubular tires. (I think that brand is now defunct.) The tires were expensive, smooth, supple, and grippy...And I would get about 1500 miles out of a rear. But man, they felt great.
Koyote is online now  
Old 01-31-23, 09:21 AM
  #44  
Sunshine
 
mstateglfr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 16,426

Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo

Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10815 Post(s)
Liked 7,290 Times in 4,088 Posts
Originally Posted by chaadster
As for whether differences make Herse and Ultradynamico worth considering, well, that depends on what kind of cyclist you are. Some cats roll around on department store rubber their whole lives, blissfully ignorant of the possibilities.
Originally Posted by chaadster
Don’t trip; Bon Jon ELs with Aerothan tubes are extremely sweet, like 95% as sweet as running them tubeless…if you could. I mean, you can run them tubeless, and I did, it’s just a matter of how much BS you want to put up with to do it. I had one blow off the rim while inflating it, trying to get the beads to lock.

That was the final straw for me, and I happily been running them with Aerothan TPU for +2 years now.
Yes, the blissful ignorance that doesnt give them the chance to be infuriated over tubeless tires that weep more than a widow and wont even stay on the rim during normal inflation. Those peasants simply dont know what they are missing.

Im all for high quality tires and have various brands/models on all my bikes, but the fact that you were forced to run a tube in a tubeless tire because it wouldnt seal AND wouldnt even just stay on the rim? That shouldnt be a vote in favor or a tire.
Havent you had multiple RH tires that had literal holes in the tires too?

Pays a small fortune for tires that are advertised as tubeless yet wont hold air, have visible holes, and wont even stay on the rim...recognizes the whole process is infuriating and total BS, yet is also critical of those buying cheap tires that dont have all these issues.

There is a wide sweet spot between cheap department tires and the money you wasted on tubeless tires that hemorrhage sealant, blow off a rim, and cant even be run tubeless.
mstateglfr is offline  
Likes For mstateglfr:
Old 02-01-23, 10:28 AM
  #45  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Posts: 120

Bikes: '84 Chas Roberts, '91 Peugeot Galibier, '94 Gitane Leader, '51 Dayton Elite, '90 Verago ATB, '08 Dawes Sardar

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)
Liked 249 Times in 60 Posts
Originally Posted by chaadster
Don’t trip; Bon Jon ELs with Aerothan tubes are extremely sweet, like 95% as sweet as running them tubeless…if you could. I mean, you can run them tubeless, and I did, it’s just a matter of how much BS you want to put up with to do it. I had one blow off the rim while inflating it, trying to get the beads to lock.

That was the final straw for me, and I happily been running them with Aerothan TPU for +2 years now.
I've not tried tubeless as it seems a lot of hassle, but TPU tubes are easily as good a latex and stay inflated. Very happy with Aerothan tubes in compass/RH/Grand Bois from 26-622 to 54-559.
esasjl is offline  
Likes For esasjl:
Old 02-01-23, 02:50 PM
  #46  
Advanced Slacker
 
Kapusta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 6,176

Bikes: Soma Fog Cutter, Surly Wednesday, Canfielld Tilt

Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2745 Post(s)
Liked 2,509 Times in 1,419 Posts
Originally Posted by Fahrenheit531
I cringe and grumble every time I have to replace my Rene Herse tires.
And then I buy them.
Yes, they're that good.

(I run Stampede Pass 700x32, ultralight casing, skinwall, with tubes.)
That is one insanely fast tire.
Kapusta is offline  
Old 02-01-23, 08:43 PM
  #47  
Thread Killer
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 12,346

Bikes: 15 Kinesis Racelight 4S, 76 Motebecane Gran Jubilée, 17 Dedacciai Gladiatore2, 12 Breezer Venturi, 09 Dahon Mariner, 12 Mercier Nano, 95 DeKerf Team SL, 19 Tern Rally, 21 Breezer Doppler Cafe+, 19 T-Lab X3, 91 Serotta CII

Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3035 Post(s)
Liked 1,614 Times in 990 Posts
Originally Posted by esasjl
I've not tried tubeless as it seems a lot of hassle, but TPU tubes are easily as good a latex and stay inflated. Very happy with Aerothan tubes in compass/RH/Grand Bois from 26-622 to 54-559.
TPU is just as fast, more durable, more puncture resistant, works at lower pressure, holds air better, is less prone to catastrophic deflation, it’s lighter, requires less raw material and is recyclable. TPU is better than latex, but it does cost more.

I think Aerothan are worth it, though, especially in the Herse extralight casing tires.

And yeah, tubeless can be a hassle, but when you’re geared up for it, and have a good tire/wheel combo, it’s sweet. I run 4 bikes tubeless right now, one TPU, and the balance butyl.
chaadster is offline  
Old 02-02-23, 03:43 AM
  #48  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Posts: 120

Bikes: '84 Chas Roberts, '91 Peugeot Galibier, '94 Gitane Leader, '51 Dayton Elite, '90 Verago ATB, '08 Dawes Sardar

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)
Liked 249 Times in 60 Posts
I'm fortunate in getting very few punctures (less than one a year) which reduces my rationale for tubeless. My most used setup has Humptulips Ridge with TPU tubes (Mavic D521/Shimano wheels); as grippy as slicks (RTPs) on tarmac and brilliant on unsealed roads and bridleways.
esasjl is offline  
Likes For esasjl:
Old 02-02-23, 06:54 AM
  #49  
Advanced Slacker
 
Kapusta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 6,176

Bikes: Soma Fog Cutter, Surly Wednesday, Canfielld Tilt

Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2745 Post(s)
Liked 2,509 Times in 1,419 Posts
RH had issues with at least one of their newly tubeless models a few years ago. That made me hold off of going tubeless with them until about 2 years ago. IIRC, that’s been addressed. I and a friend of mine have set them up tubeless since, and they set up relatively easily.

Mine (Barlow Pass EL) did start weeping a lot after about a year. Having run tubeless for a long time on MTBs, I have had a lot of tires weep, and it is generally not a big deal, but these weeped too much. I use mostly Stans regular, I’ve read other sealants are more highly recommended.

Some manufacturing problems are pretty easily solved, like tubeless setup and fit. I see no reason to believe this issue has not been resolved. There is nothing about an EL casing tire that would be more prone to bead related issues.

OTOH, I think the weeping issue is going to be a tough nut to crack with the EL sidewalls.

FWIW, there are also reports of Panaracer Gravel Kings blowing off rims. I was once with a friend when his Maxxis tire blow off a rim when inflating at the trailhead. Over the past 25 years, I have had defective or highly problematic tires from Maxxis, Schwalbe, Kenda, Michelin, and Continental. It is important to understand the difference between isolated production issues and underlying design limitations or flaws.

Last edited by Kapusta; 02-02-23 at 07:19 AM.
Kapusta is offline  
Likes For Kapusta:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.