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How learning works (or doesn't)

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How learning works (or doesn't)

Old 02-21-23, 06:14 AM
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How learning works (or doesn't)

We all know BF is full of contrasting opinions and debate, which is what makes it interesting and offers opportunities to learn new things and alternative perspectives. There is a huge knowledge base out there that can be tapped into if only we have an open-mind and are prepared to listen as well as talk. But the whole collective learning experience depends on everyone observing a few general guidelines:-

1. If you are not a recognised expert in a particular subject under debate then it's a good idea to do more listening and less arguing/asserting your own opinion as fact.

2. Be brave enough to admit when you are wrong. It's just a forum, so there's no need to be embarrassed or try to dig yourself out. We are all sometimes wrong and that's when we have an opportunity to learn the most.

3. When you are not 100% sure of something you are about to say then either a) say it with the proviso that you are not sure or b) don't say it at all. Never state your opinion as a fact unless you are 100% sure it is actually a fact.

4. Don't continue to argue a point of fact unless you can actually back it up with some factual evidence from a recognised source of expertise.

5. Don't move the goalposts around in an effort "not to be proven wrong" when you are losing an argument. Everyone can see what you did and you lose respect.

6. When evidence is presented in direct opposition to your own opinion, it is a not a good idea to re-quote that same evidence as if it does actually support your own opposing view. Again everyone sees it and you lose respect. If you do have genuine, credible evidence to the contrary then present that instead.

7. Don't be a dick about it.
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Old 02-21-23, 06:50 AM
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That aero/weight thread was your first taste of the ****, eh? Man, that wasn’t even bad, just stupid!

Anyway, I hope you’re not too shook to stick around, because it takes a preponderance of valuable voices to keep things in check.

Last edited by cb400bill; 02-21-23 at 08:52 AM.
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Old 02-21-23, 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by chaadster
That aero/weight thread was your first taste of the ****, eh? Man, that wasn’t even bad, just stupid!

Anyway, I hope you’re not too shook to stick around, because it takes a preponderance of valuable voices to keep things in check.
God no! I just thought this one guy was an outstanding example of stubborn ignorance. Makes all the other regular clowns look like amateurs. I stick around because these clowns at least force the more valuable voices to contribute. So at least I get to learn something that I might not otherwise have been inclined to check.

Last edited by cb400bill; 02-21-23 at 08:52 AM.
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Old 02-21-23, 07:00 PM
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Do you really think this thread will stop the trolls?
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Old 02-21-23, 07:20 PM
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Welll ... I used to spend a good deal more time under a bridge, shouting possibly meaningless or accidentally intelligent but generally caustic quips at just about everyone .... and even I have grown up some, and in part it is due to a few folks here who didn't take the bait and responded rationally and made me want to wise up.

Eliminate the trolls? Won't touch most of them. Help a few people learn to work a little better in groups? Could happen.
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Old 02-21-23, 07:26 PM
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New around here huh?
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Old 02-21-23, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Lombard
Do you really think this thread will stop the trolls?
No, not really. But it might save the odd "accidental" troll from digging a hole they probably wish they hadn't started.
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Old 02-21-23, 08:40 PM
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seems like there is a whole lot of this on dang near every post.

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Old 02-21-23, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
We all know BF is full of contrasting opinions and debate, which is what makes it interesting and offers opportunities to learn new things and alternative perspectives. There is a huge knowledge base out there that can be tapped into if only we have an open-mind and are prepared to listen as well as talk. But the whole collective learning experience depends on everyone observing a few general guidelines:-

1. If you are not a recognised expert in a particular subject under debate then it's a good idea to do more listening and less arguing/asserting your own opinion as fact.

2. Be brave enough to admit when you are wrong. It's just a forum, so there's no need to be embarrassed or try to dig yourself out. We are all sometimes wrong and that's when we have an opportunity to learn the most.

3. When you are not 100% sure of something you are about to say then either a) say it with the proviso that you are not sure or b) don't say it at all. Never state your opinion as a fact unless you are 100% sure it is actually a fact.

4. Don't continue to argue a point of fact unless you can actually back it up with some factual evidence from a recognised source of expertise.

5. Don't move the goalposts around in an effort "not to be proven wrong" when you are losing an argument. Everyone can see what you did and you lose respect.

6. When evidence is presented in direct opposition to your own opinion, it is a not a good idea to re-quote that same evidence as if it does actually support your own opposing view. Again everyone sees it and you lose respect. If you do have genuine, credible evidence to the contrary then present that instead.
To the above I would add: even if you think you're right (or maybe even are objectively right), just quit at some point. Move on. To me, it looks pathetic when people put way too much stake in "winning" a stupid internet argument. A person loses respect by going on and on and on and on. A suggestion for someone who can't stand to not have the final word: "You're wrong, but I'm done.", or nicer: "I think you're wrong, but I'm done." Or nicest: "We'll have to agree to disagree. I'm going for a ride (or tend to whatever life one has other than arguing meaningless issues on the internet)"

7. Don't be a dick about it.
Like calling people idiots, clowns and other belittling names.

DARN, I missed this before I wrote the above!
Originally Posted by jadmt
seems like there is a whole lot of this on dang near every post.


Last edited by Camilo; 02-21-23 at 09:17 PM.
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Old 02-21-23, 09:49 PM
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...OK this thread is genuinely funny. Thank you, PeteHski , from the bottom of my tiny little heart. I had no idea you were also a highly credentialed educator. I continue to be impressed by your Renaissance man persona.
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Old 02-21-23, 10:10 PM
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I thought I sent you for tacos.

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Old 02-22-23, 02:33 AM
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Old 02-22-23, 05:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Camilo
To the above I would add: even if you think you're right (or maybe even are objectively right), just quit at some point. Move on. To me, it looks pathetic when people put way too much stake in "winning" a stupid internet argument. A person loses respect by going on and on and on and on. A suggestion for someone who can't stand to not have the final word: "You're wrong, but I'm done.", or nicer: "I think you're wrong, but I'm done." Or nicest: "We'll have to agree to disagree. I'm going for a ride (or tend to whatever life one has other than arguing meaningless issues on the internet)"
For me that approach only works in a debate where I'm not sure if I'm right or wrong. Especially if it appears that the other side are better qualified. But in that position I would be far too embarrassed to argue my dubious position for multiple pages. I follow points 1 & 2 in my original post to avoid that very scenario.

Occasionally, if I'm very busy or not that interested in the subject, I do quit. But rightly or wrongly I tend to hang in there when I know someone is talking complete bs. It has its benefits because it tends to highlight which other posters are worth listening to and often throws up some interesting links.
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Old 02-22-23, 05:20 AM
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When a thread goes on for a dozen pages of nonsensical argument ..... but I am still reading it ......
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Old 02-22-23, 05:23 AM
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In the end... we are arguing over 3 watts per wheel - at best.
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Old 02-22-23, 06:01 AM
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My internet forum survival is based on never responding. If the point I'm making gets blazed, so be it and drive on.
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Old 02-22-23, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by BTinNYC
My internet forum survival is based on never responding. If the point I'm making gets blazed, so be it and drive on.
That's obviously a sensible thing to do if you don't want to get too involved. I actually don't mind a good debate and never take any of the backlash seriously. If I'm busy with something I just disappear and stop reading the thread. But if I've got time to kill and it is mildly interesting then I'll stick it out.
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Old 02-22-23, 07:15 AM
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Being right on the internet accomplishes nothing.
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Old 02-22-23, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by DonkeyShow
Being right on the internet accomplishes nothing.
But it can help other people to learn something and it can help to clarify your own thoughts about something. But for me the main objective is to kill a few moments between other stuff I'm doing. Takes my mind away from important things for a few minutes and I like talking about bikes.
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Old 02-22-23, 08:09 AM
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when the arguing/name-calling gets too much on BF, I leave for a few months or years.
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Old 02-22-23, 11:44 AM
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When the arguing/name-calling gets too much on BF .... I get warned by the admins.
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Old 02-24-23, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Maelochs
When the arguing/name-calling gets too much on BF .... I get warned by the admins.
Yeah I got a warning the other day for calling a couple of posters clowns and idiots.. Under the circumstances I thought that was a generous description.
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Old 02-24-23, 07:55 PM
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8. Don’t rely on chat bots to make you look clever or dig yourself out of a hole.
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Old 02-24-23, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
Yeah I got a warning the other day for calling a couple of posters clowns and idiots.. Under the circumstances I thought that was a generous description.
Hilarious .
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Old 02-24-23, 09:21 PM
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I think this thread is pathetic. And that other one too.
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