ping123

Any differences in the technique to ride out of the saddle of a road bike and a mountain bike when (1) picking out speed from a stop (2) riding up a slope of 10% or more, and (3) sprinting.
I use clipless pedals. It seems to me that doing all the 3 above is easier with a road bike. I can't sprint well on a MTB.

Chuck M 

Does your MTB have a suspension or is it rigid? I suspect you have a suspension from what you describe.

TiHabanero

I suspect there is little one can do other than stand up and pedal.

ping123

I have converted the suspension fork to a rigid carbon fibre fork. It is a hard tail MTB too. I use it as a commute bike now.
Could you ride out of the saddle equally well on different types of bike?

big john

It feels more awkward standing on my mtb. Partly due to the wide bars and partly due to the floppy front end. It takes practice to get smooth.

PeteHski

I rarely ride standing on my full suss mtb, even on very steep slopes. It feels a lot more natural on a road bike when standing. Sit and spin feels natural on an mtb.

wheelreason

I find while sitting, pedaling right, left, right is best. When I'm standing I prefer left, right, left, except on Tuesdays...

zaje

++
btw, have you ever ride a bike?

CliffordK

I like to get my pedals adjusted tight enough that I can't yank the clips out of the pedals when standing and pedaling.

Are you using similar gear selections on the MTB and the road bike? The performance on the MTB will be different if you are riding in a much lower gear.

I tend to like a little narrower Q-Factor on the cranks, although I can ride a variety of bikes.

CAT7RDR

Don't lock your elbows hard when pressing down but gently rock back on forth on each side of the bar until you get the hang of it.
Let gravity work for you when standing. You do not have to exaggerate or press hard on the down stroke.

Just my 2 cents.

ping123

Which Q-Factor? How would you feel when riding with a narrower Q-Factor?

CliffordK

The "Q-Factor" is considered the overall distance between the outer face of the right crank to the outer face of the left crank in width.

Your photo shows crank Q-Factor which apparently is how much the crank bows out. For vintage bikes, MTBs or Triples may have had wider bottom brackets so the cranks would clear the chainstays for wider rear tires. Modern bottom brackets have a fixed width and may adjust somewhat with the crank design.

The cargo bike in my Avatar is based on a FAT bike (20x4.25), which really makes the cranks wider than I'm comfortable with. While the cranks don't hit the chainstays, the issue is that the chain must be kept back from the tire shifting through all gears.

Most of my riding is on road bikes with a fairly narrow Q-Factor which just feels right.

Overall I can't say that it would make a huge difference for efficiency between a MTB and Road bike. But, it may change how one feels at the end of the ride.

Kapusta

It feels pretty different for me. For one thing, my grips on the mtb are 300mm wider than the road bike and shorter reach.

Also, I need to pay more attention to fore/aft weight distribution on the MTB when climbing something steep out of the saddle.

On a road bike, I am usually out of the saddle for purposes of using different muscle or getting more power. On an mtb it is more likely due to climbing or pedaling over a technical section.

rumrunn6

since I'm older & have had knee surgery, I try to make sure my legs are lined up properly
if I'm currently climbing, I downshift 2 gears before getting up
if it's a long hill, I try to predict what part of the hill actually requires me to be out of the saddle. sometimes it's smarter to stay in the saddle, downshift & just work the hill patiently
I'm limited by my breathing, heart & legs
what price am I willing to pay for what gain & what will the other side of the episode be like. will I have to keep climbing? can I coast? will I continue at a fast cadence or speed? as-in getting out of the saddle to start or get up to speed & then I will maintain that speed?

general questions like this aren't as helpful as a more specific question, for example why are you asking? is there a hill you need to climb? are you just curious because of some video you saw of some pros racing?

shelbyfv

+1

gene99

i second that one. went down once in an off road race getting out of the saddle going up a short steep hill. definitely b/c of the my wide grip on the bars (vs a road bike).

rumrunn6

never knew that. I thought pedal extenders were meant to change the Q factor, which I thought was the distance of the pedals from each other

Eric F 

I'm comfortable standing and pedaling on any of my bikes. It just takes time and practice. On the MTB, there are situations where understanding and controlling front/rear weight distribution is necessary to maintain traction, and situations where staying seated is the better choice.

Broctoon

Here are a few points from my experience:


1- On short, steep climbs, I find standing up to sprint is often the best technique.


2- When I stand up, I feel more comfortable/secure with clipless pedals. Lots of folks insist they don't make a difference, but they do for me.


3- Apparently, pulling up on the pedals (at the back of the pedaling circle) is not effective. There's research to support this claim, and all you need to verify it is a set of power meter pedals and a decent app to show the data they capture. This is because of the biophysics involved; our muscles simply aren't built for delivering force in that direction. Nevertheless, I still try to pull up when standing for a short sprint. More accurately, what I do is focus on trying to deliver power throughout the entire pedal stroke.


4- If I'm really trying to push hard, I lean forward over the handlebars as far as I safely can, try to keep my body low, and keep a firm grip on the handlebar. Usually I get the best control by gripping the brake hoods, but sometimes I'll go down into the drops. I never grip the top of a road (drop) bar while standing. With a flat or riser bar, I've found bar ends can be really helpful. I don't understand why they went so completely out of fashion about two decades ago.


5- I believe it is okay to lean the bike side to side a little to assist with power delivery in a sprint, but this should be limited and not an exaggerated motion.


6- You can put out more force (not to be confused with power, which is force x cadence) when standing, therefore it's often best to shift into a gear one or two steps higher (smaller cog) immediately prior to standing. On a moderately steep climb, you will quickly spin out if you stand up to sprint and keep the same gear you had when approaching the hill.


When training for this technique, set a goal for how long you want to maintain the sprint, such as a tree, sign, or other landmark, or a time duration. Focus on not easing up and not returning to the saddle until you've reached this point. It can be hard if you're truly pushing at or near your max output. I'm talking about heart rate well into the anaerobic zone--if you're able to keep it up for more than about a minute, you either have great cardiovascular health or you're not pushing hard enough. If you feel your legs are turning to jelly or they're on fire, and you're likewise gasping for breath, you're doing it right. By doing this for many short repetitions separated by moderate or easy spinning, you are virtually guaranteed to get more fit. (Sprinkle in this workout no more than once a week, followed by at least 24 hours of recovery.) A graph of your heart rate through the workout should be shaped like sharp, jagged saw teeth. I am being serious here: consult your doctor if you have health problems or you're unsure of your heart's condition.


I believe working on this technique has some practical benefits. If you mountain bike on steep, variable terrain, training your muscles, heart, and lungs to produce lots of power for short duration can pay off. Likewise if you race, especially in criterium or similar formats where a sprint to the finish can make all the difference.


On longer climbs, I also stand up sometimes and stay in a low gear but don't try for a hard sprint. I just use it as a way to keep moving while engaging muscles differently or to employ my body weight to keep the crank moving. I'll alternate between sitting and standing when I'm on a grade steeper than 8% and longer than a mile or so.

phughes

Have you?

zaje

no, why you ask?

ofajen

I think the main advantage of a road bike for sprinting is that you can grip the bars farther forward. You can get a better, straighter load path for the torso straight down through the arms especially in the drops and that makes it easier to manage the pedaling out of the saddle and running a higher cadence. At extreme effort, you can even be pulling up on the drops with the forces in line with the peak downward push on the pedals. MTBs don’t have the geometry for this.

Otto

Kapusta

Interesting. I find that it easier to deliver more power standing and pulling on the bars on an MTB setup with the grips farther apart and closer to the saddle.

This became apparent in my single-speed days as I moved to shorter stems and wider bars.

ofajen

More force, probably, but my experience has been that being able to support more weight down on the bars allows much faster pedaling out of the saddle and that may actually be producing more power. Perhaps someone has measured this stuff at some point ?

Otto

Kapusta

Yeah… that could make sense. Might be better for pushing a really tall gear, but a less tall gear at a faster cadence might be more power.