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Tires- Tube or tubeless?

Old 06-01-23, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Eric F
From what I've seen, most of the drama is from anti-tubeless folks ranting about something that they have zero experience with, but claim to know everything about. Do you make the same rants about tubeless car or motorcycle tires?

I've been riding bikes for more than a few years, under lots of different conditions. I understand the options available to me, and the pros and cons of each tire type. Tubeless is my informed choice.
Check out Leisesturm 's sig line. He's all about convincing people that HIS decision should be THEIR decision. Which is weird, because I don't see anyone on bf trying to convince people to ditch their tubes. I don't give a damn what those folks do, but I do not like misinformation.
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Old 06-01-23, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Eric F
Have you used Dynaplugs on road tires? I carry them in my gravel and MTB tool kits, but not on the road.
Living around here, I don't ride road much anymore, so it's a non-issue. But I think people do use those on road tires.
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Old 06-01-23, 02:06 PM
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I had 12000kms with tubeles without a puncture, change 2 times the sealant (twice in a year)
I will keep using tubeless, I was thinking on test the new china tubolites (ridenow) but I prefer to keep with the tubeless.
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Old 06-01-23, 02:12 PM
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tubeless for me has been totally devoid of drama. I haven't convinced myself to use it on 32mm tires yet, only larger, still a level of superstition on my part. And also the supply chain interfered with the switch. I do have tubeless ready rims and they are taped, just haven't gotten tires yet.
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Old 06-01-23, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by LesterOfPuppets
I'm not old enough to have witnessed it first hand, but I'm sure there were similar discussions back in the early days of clinchers.
There still is. Go over to C&V and mention tubular vs clincher and get ready for the same show only that one is over 40 years old.
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Old 06-01-23, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Eric F
Have you used Dynaplugs on road tires? I carry them in my gravel and MTB tool kits, but not on the road.
Works great. I tour with tubeless and plugged a tire in Vietnam and itís still in the tire 6 months later.
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Old 06-01-23, 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Eric F
From what I've seen, most of the drama is from anti-tubeless folks ranting about something that they have zero experience with, but claim to know everything about. Do you make the same rants about tubeless car or motorcycle tires?
Of course not. Tubeless car and motorcycle tires are mature technology. And you don't get a choice about it anyway. I was leasing a Passat around 20 years ago and got a flat. Changed it for the spare 'thing' and finished the trip. The dealer was very upset that I didn't call for roadside assistance. As if ... Automotive tubeless tires are not user serviceable. You need hydraulic tools to break the bead. Hydraulic tools to set the plugs. A significant jack to raise the car. Their service vehicle wasn't going to repair my tire they were going to do just what I did. It would take them 10 minutes while it took me 20 but I was going to have to wait 90 minutes for them to get to me.

Motorcycles adopted tubeless technology because the speeds involved and the danger of blowouts at those speeds made it a wise development. Sealant is not used in motorcycle tubeless tires. They are highly self sealing by construction, they are highly flat resistant by construction. When, if, they fail, trained professionals need to take over. As God intended. But it ended the era of DIY roadside flat repairs. Now motorcyclists need AAA on speed dial just like cagers. More so. Most streetbikes cannot carry doughnuts! Neither can bicycles. Sadly, the lower forces involved in bicycle tubeless bead breaking and plug insertion and etc. are just enough within reach that adopters are willing to risk heading out with tubeless unsupported. I wouldn't know the exact ratio of success to failure but for the kind of riding I do Mon -Fri, failure is not an option.

At any speed above 12mph air resistance is the totality of what is keeping a cyclist from going any faster. It is a close top speed contest between a speedskater on ice in full tuck, and a road cyclist on level ground in full tuck, but in neither case does it get much faster than ~30mph+ for a trained competition level athlete. Put that same athlete behind a motorpaced wind shield and they are going to hit well over 120mph. So, tubed vs tubeless re: rolling resistance? <chortle> Pinch flats? I don't run tubeless and I've never pinch flatted ever, in decades of daily riding. Comfort? Seriously? When you are hammering for the Strava KOM is comfort really a thing? How 'comfortable' exactly does anyone expect to be on a bicycle?

Bontrager H2 2.0" didn't flat for me until their 5th year of 7d/wk urban riding. In the same riding Kenda Kwest flat 2x/dy! Schwalbe Big Apple, weekly. Schwalbe Big Apple with Mr. Tuffy Liner, bi-monthly (from the liner chafing the tube) Schwalbe Marathon, roughly quarterly. I have some Bontrager H2 Hardcase in 700c x 25 and to some they are garden hose, but you know what? If you beat me with your amazing tubeless set up it won't be because of that. It will be because you are 30y.o. and I am 65. But my tire is NOT going to flat. I mean that. I don't even carry tire levers when I am rocking the Bonties. So your tubeless rig better not even lose 10psi of pressure on challenge day because if it does, it's going to be real close. And if it loses all pressure and you have to go plug it, or put in a tube, or whatever other ju ju y'all's have to do when spit happens, it's all over.

When people race cyclocross or ride gravel they don't worry about steel belt tire wires getting into their tires. Tubeless were originally MTB kit. Makes more sense there. Little or no glass. Less man made junk. Still, if the tires are puncturing and sealant is needed to prevent air loss, then the tire has failed. I just don't feel like gambling that the light, supple, amazing gravel ride tubeless will have a good day today and not let me down. I'd rather use a heavier, slower, tire and have peace of mind. When such tires are made in tubeless format, call me. I might answer.
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Old 06-02-23, 06:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm
Of course not. Tubeless car and motorcycle tires are mature technology. And you don't get a choice about it anyway. I was leasing a Passat around 20 years ago and got a flat. Changed it for the spare 'thing' and finished the trip. The dealer was very upset that I didn't call for roadside assistance. As if ... Automotive tubeless tires are not user serviceable. You need hydraulic tools to break the bead. Hydraulic tools to set the plugs. A significant jack to raise the car. Their service vehicle wasn't going to repair my tire they were going to do just what I did. It would take them 10 minutes while it took me 20 but I was going to have to wait 90 minutes for them to get to me.

Motorcycles adopted tubeless technology because the speeds involved and the danger of blowouts at those speeds made it a wise development. Sealant is not used in motorcycle tubeless tires. They are highly self sealing by construction, they are highly flat resistant by construction. When, if, they fail, trained professionals need to take over. As God intended. But it ended the era of DIY roadside flat repairs. Now motorcyclists need AAA on speed dial just like cagers. More so. Most streetbikes cannot carry doughnuts! Neither can bicycles. Sadly, the lower forces involved in bicycle tubeless bead breaking and plug insertion and etc. are just enough within reach that adopters are willing to risk heading out with tubeless unsupported. I wouldn't know the exact ratio of success to failure but for the kind of riding I do Mon -Fri, failure is not an option.

At any speed above 12mph air resistance is the totality of what is keeping a cyclist from going any faster. It is a close top speed contest between a speedskater on ice in full tuck, and a road cyclist on level ground in full tuck, but in neither case does it get much faster than ~30mph+ for a trained competition level athlete. Put that same athlete behind a motorpaced wind shield and they are going to hit well over 120mph. So, tubed vs tubeless re: rolling resistance? <chortle> Pinch flats? I don't run tubeless and I've never pinch flatted ever, in decades of daily riding. Comfort? Seriously? When you are hammering for the Strava KOM is comfort really a thing? How 'comfortable' exactly does anyone expect to be on a bicycle?

Bontrager H2 2.0" didn't flat for me until their 5th year of 7d/wk urban riding. In the same riding Kenda Kwest flat 2x/dy! Schwalbe Big Apple, weekly. Schwalbe Big Apple with Mr. Tuffy Liner, bi-monthly (from the liner chafing the tube) Schwalbe Marathon, roughly quarterly. I have some Bontrager H2 Hardcase in 700c x 25 and to some they are garden hose, but you know what? If you beat me with your amazing tubeless set up it won't be because of that. It will be because you are 30y.o. and I am 65. But my tire is NOT going to flat. I mean that. I don't even carry tire levers when I am rocking the Bonties. So your tubeless rig better not even lose 10psi of pressure on challenge day because if it does, it's going to be real close. And if it loses all pressure and you have to go plug it, or put in a tube, or whatever other ju ju y'all's have to do when spit happens, it's all over.

When people race cyclocross or ride gravel they don't worry about steel belt tire wires getting into their tires. Tubeless were originally MTB kit. Makes more sense there. Little or no glass. Less man made junk. Still, if the tires are puncturing and sealant is needed to prevent air loss, then the tire has failed. I just don't feel like gambling that the light, supple, amazing gravel ride tubeless will have a good day today and not let me down. I'd rather use a heavier, slower, tire and have peace of mind. When such tires are made in tubeless format, call me. I might answer.
You're misinformed on motorcycles. There is still the argument of tubeless vs tubes though it is way ahead of the use on bicycles. There is also Tubbliss. With the advantages and disadvantages of running tubeless with a tube. itís for off road. For sealant there are sealants for balancing and sealing small holes used. Iíve tried them before and like here there are those that swear by them. There is also balancing beads but thatís another topic. Changing tires. There is road side assistance. I am an AMA member so have it. But the service providers are not as many. So I change my own tires. One bike tubeless the other tubes. The portable tools I carry take longer than using a tire machine. The advantage of tubeless being able to quickly plug a tire applies to both.
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Old 06-02-23, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm
Of course not. Tubeless car and motorcycle tires are mature technology. And you don't get a choice about it anyway. I was leasing a Passat around 20 years ago and got a flat. Changed it for the spare 'thing' and finished the trip. The dealer was very upset that I didn't call for roadside assistance. As if ... Automotive tubeless tires are not user serviceable. You need hydraulic tools to break the bead. Hydraulic tools to set the plugs. A significant jack to raise the car. Their service vehicle wasn't going to repair my tire they were going to do just what I did. It would take them 10 minutes while it took me 20 but I was going to have to wait 90 minutes for them to get to me.

Motorcycles adopted tubeless technology because the speeds involved and the danger of blowouts at those speeds made it a wise development. Sealant is not used in motorcycle tubeless tires. They are highly self sealing by construction, they are highly flat resistant by construction. When, if, they fail, trained professionals need to take over. As God intended. But it ended the era of DIY roadside flat repairs. Now motorcyclists need AAA on speed dial just like cagers. More so. Most streetbikes cannot carry doughnuts! Neither can bicycles. Sadly, the lower forces involved in bicycle tubeless bead breaking and plug insertion and etc. are just enough within reach that adopters are willing to risk heading out with tubeless unsupported. I wouldn't know the exact ratio of success to failure but for the kind of riding I do Mon -Fri, failure is not an option.

At any speed above 12mph air resistance is the totality of what is keeping a cyclist from going any faster. It is a close top speed contest between a speedskater on ice in full tuck, and a road cyclist on level ground in full tuck, but in neither case does it get much faster than ~30mph+ for a trained competition level athlete. Put that same athlete behind a motorpaced wind shield and they are going to hit well over 120mph. So, tubed vs tubeless re: rolling resistance? <chortle> Pinch flats? I don't run tubeless and I've never pinch flatted ever, in decades of daily riding. Comfort? Seriously? When you are hammering for the Strava KOM is comfort really a thing? How 'comfortable' exactly does anyone expect to be on a bicycle?

Bontrager H2 2.0" didn't flat for me until their 5th year of 7d/wk urban riding. In the same riding Kenda Kwest flat 2x/dy! Schwalbe Big Apple, weekly. Schwalbe Big Apple with Mr. Tuffy Liner, bi-monthly (from the liner chafing the tube) Schwalbe Marathon, roughly quarterly. I have some Bontrager H2 Hardcase in 700c x 25 and to some they are garden hose, but you know what? If you beat me with your amazing tubeless set up it won't be because of that. It will be because you are 30y.o. and I am 65. But my tire is NOT going to flat. I mean that. I don't even carry tire levers when I am rocking the Bonties. So your tubeless rig better not even lose 10psi of pressure on challenge day because if it does, it's going to be real close. And if it loses all pressure and you have to go plug it, or put in a tube, or whatever other ju ju y'all's have to do when spit happens, it's all over.

When people race cyclocross or ride gravel they don't worry about steel belt tire wires getting into their tires. Tubeless were originally MTB kit. Makes more sense there. Little or no glass. Less man made junk. Still, if the tires are puncturing and sealant is needed to prevent air loss, then the tire has failed. I just don't feel like gambling that the light, supple, amazing gravel ride tubeless will have a good day today and not let me down. I'd rather use a heavier, slower, tire and have peace of mind. When such tires are made in tubeless format, call me. I might answer.
It took you longer to write that diatribe than it takes to mount a modern set of tubeless tires including adding sealant. You would have saved yourself a lot of time by clarifying that you don't care about ride quality or performance. We then could have engaged in a discussion of whether solid rubber flat-proof tires are the way to go for riders such as yourself, you prioritize flat resistance over all other criteria and so yes tubeless is not for you. To achieve a high-performance supple tire with great puncture resistance tubeless is the way to go.
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Old 06-02-23, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm
Of course not. Tubeless car and motorcycle tires are mature technology. And you don't get a choice about it anyway. I was leasing a Passat around 20 years ago and got a flat. Changed it for the spare 'thing' and finished the trip. The dealer was very upset that I didn't call for roadside assistance. As if ... Automotive tubeless tires are not user serviceable. You need hydraulic tools to break the bead. Hydraulic tools to set the plugs. A significant jack to raise the car. Their service vehicle wasn't going to repair my tire they were going to do just what I did. It would take them 10 minutes while it took me 20 but I was going to have to wait 90 minutes for them to get to me.

Motorcycles adopted tubeless technology because the speeds involved and the danger of blowouts at those speeds made it a wise development. Sealant is not used in motorcycle tubeless tires. They are highly self sealing by construction, they are highly flat resistant by construction. When, if, they fail, trained professionals need to take over. As God intended. But it ended the era of DIY roadside flat repairs. Now motorcyclists need AAA on speed dial just like cagers. More so. Most streetbikes cannot carry doughnuts! Neither can bicycles. Sadly, the lower forces involved in bicycle tubeless bead breaking and plug insertion and etc. are just enough within reach that adopters are willing to risk heading out with tubeless unsupported. I wouldn't know the exact ratio of success to failure but for the kind of riding I do Mon -Fri, failure is not an option.

At any speed above 12mph air resistance is the totality of what is keeping a cyclist from going any faster. It is a close top speed contest between a speedskater on ice in full tuck, and a road cyclist on level ground in full tuck, but in neither case does it get much faster than ~30mph+ for a trained competition level athlete. Put that same athlete behind a motorpaced wind shield and they are going to hit well over 120mph. So, tubed vs tubeless re: rolling resistance? <chortle> Pinch flats? I don't run tubeless and I've never pinch flatted ever, in decades of daily riding. Comfort? Seriously? When you are hammering for the Strava KOM is comfort really a thing? How 'comfortable' exactly does anyone expect to be on a bicycle?

Bontrager H2 2.0" didn't flat for me until their 5th year of 7d/wk urban riding. In the same riding Kenda Kwest flat 2x/dy! Schwalbe Big Apple, weekly. Schwalbe Big Apple with Mr. Tuffy Liner, bi-monthly (from the liner chafing the tube) Schwalbe Marathon, roughly quarterly. I have some Bontrager H2 Hardcase in 700c x 25 and to some they are garden hose, but you know what? If you beat me with your amazing tubeless set up it won't be because of that. It will be because you are 30y.o. and I am 65. But my tire is NOT going to flat. I mean that. I don't even carry tire levers when I am rocking the Bonties. So your tubeless rig better not even lose 10psi of pressure on challenge day because if it does, it's going to be real close. And if it loses all pressure and you have to go plug it, or put in a tube, or whatever other ju ju y'all's have to do when spit happens, it's all over.

When people race cyclocross or ride gravel they don't worry about steel belt tire wires getting into their tires. Tubeless were originally MTB kit. Makes more sense there. Little or no glass. Less man made junk. Still, if the tires are puncturing and sealant is needed to prevent air loss, then the tire has failed. I just don't feel like gambling that the light, supple, amazing gravel ride tubeless will have a good day today and not let me down. I'd rather use a heavier, slower, tire and have peace of mind. When such tires are made in tubeless format, call me. I might answer.
Thank you for confirming my previous comment. So much ranting...so little experience. So many assumptions...so few facts.

If you're happy running tubed tires, cool. Be happy. No one is criticizing you for your choice. Also be aware that your experiences are not necessarily the same for everyone else, and it sounds like your needs/preferences for a road tire are quite different that my needs/preferences. I really don't understand why you are so worked up about my decision that doesn't affect you at all.

If I beat you? Challenge day?...What the hell are you talking about??? Not that it matters at all, but I'm not 30. However, I did do my first bike race more than 30 years ago.
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Old 06-02-23, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm
Of course not. Tubeless car and motorcycle tires are mature technology. And you don't get a choice about it anyway. I was leasing a Passat around 20 years ago and got a flat. Changed it for the spare 'thing' and finished the trip. The dealer was very upset that I didn't call for roadside assistance. As if ... Automotive tubeless tires are not user serviceable. You need hydraulic tools to break the bead. Hydraulic tools to set the plugs. A significant jack to raise the car. Their service vehicle wasn't going to repair my tire they were going to do just what I did. It would take them 10 minutes while it took me 20 but I was going to have to wait 90 minutes for them to get to me.

Motorcycles adopted tubeless technology because the speeds involved and the danger of blowouts at those speeds made it a wise development. Sealant is not used in motorcycle tubeless tires. They are highly self sealing by construction, they are highly flat resistant by construction. When, if, they fail, trained professionals need to take over. As God intended. But it ended the era of DIY roadside flat repairs. Now motorcyclists need AAA on speed dial just like cagers. More so. Most streetbikes cannot carry doughnuts! Neither can bicycles. Sadly, the lower forces involved in bicycle tubeless bead breaking and plug insertion and etc. are just enough within reach that adopters are willing to risk heading out with tubeless unsupported. I wouldn't know the exact ratio of success to failure but for the kind of riding I do Mon -Fri, failure is not an option.

At any speed above 12mph air resistance is the totality of what is keeping a cyclist from going any faster. It is a close top speed contest between a speedskater on ice in full tuck, and a road cyclist on level ground in full tuck, but in neither case does it get much faster than ~30mph+ for a trained competition level athlete. Put that same athlete behind a motorpaced wind shield and they are going to hit well over 120mph. So, tubed vs tubeless re: rolling resistance? <chortle> Pinch flats? I don't run tubeless and I've never pinch flatted ever, in decades of daily riding. Comfort? Seriously? When you are hammering for the Strava KOM is comfort really a thing? How 'comfortable' exactly does anyone expect to be on a bicycle?

Bontrager H2 2.0" didn't flat for me until their 5th year of 7d/wk urban riding. In the same riding Kenda Kwest flat 2x/dy! Schwalbe Big Apple, weekly. Schwalbe Big Apple with Mr. Tuffy Liner, bi-monthly (from the liner chafing the tube) Schwalbe Marathon, roughly quarterly. I have some Bontrager H2 Hardcase in 700c x 25 and to some they are garden hose, but you know what? If you beat me with your amazing tubeless set up it won't be because of that. It will be because you are 30y.o. and I am 65. But my tire is NOT going to flat. I mean that. I don't even carry tire levers when I am rocking the Bonties. So your tubeless rig better not even lose 10psi of pressure on challenge day because if it does, it's going to be real close. And if it loses all pressure and you have to go plug it, or put in a tube, or whatever other ju ju y'all's have to do when spit happens, it's all over.

When people race cyclocross or ride gravel they don't worry about steel belt tire wires getting into their tires. Tubeless were originally MTB kit. Makes more sense there. Little or no glass. Less man made junk. Still, if the tires are puncturing and sealant is needed to prevent air loss, then the tire has failed. I just don't feel like gambling that the light, supple, amazing gravel ride tubeless will have a good day today and not let me down. I'd rather use a heavier, slower, tire and have peace of mind. When such tires are made in tubeless format, call me. I might answer.
You seem very bothered and even threatened by other people's choices. Weird.

Nobody is trying to convince you to do anything differently. Perhaps you should extend the same courtesy to others.
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Old 06-02-23, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm
Of course not. Tubeless car and motorcycle tires are mature technology. And you don't get a choice about it anyway. I was leasing a Passat around 20 years ago and got a flat. Changed it for the spare 'thing' and finished the trip. The dealer was very upset that I didn't call for roadside assistance. As if ... Automotive tubeless tires are not user serviceable. You need hydraulic tools to break the bead. Hydraulic tools to set the plugs. A significant jack to raise the car. Their service vehicle wasn't going to repair my tire they were going to do just what I did. It would take them 10 minutes while it took me 20 but I was going to have to wait 90 minutes for them to get to me.

Motorcycles adopted tubeless technology because the speeds involved and the danger of blowouts at those speeds made it a wise development. Sealant is not used in motorcycle tubeless tires. They are highly self sealing by construction, they are highly flat resistant by construction. When, if, they fail, trained professionals need to take over. As God intended. But it ended the era of DIY roadside flat repairs. Now motorcyclists need AAA on speed dial just like cagers. More so. Most streetbikes cannot carry doughnuts! Neither can bicycles. Sadly, the lower forces involved in bicycle tubeless bead breaking and plug insertion and etc. are just enough within reach that adopters are willing to risk heading out with tubeless unsupported.
Originally Posted by Leisesturm
I wouldn't know the exactratio of success to failure but for the kind of riding I do Mon -Fri, failure is not an option.

At any speed above 12mph air resistance is the totality of what is keeping a cyclist from going any faster. It is a close top speed contest between a speedskater on ice in full tuck, and a road cyclist on level ground in full tuck, but in neither case does it get much faster than ~30mph+ for a trained competition level athlete. Put that same athlete behind a motorpaced wind shield and they are going to hit well over 120mph. So, tubed vs tubeless re: rolling resistance? <chortle> Pinch flats? I don't run tubeless and I've never pinch flatted ever, in decades of daily riding. Comfort? Seriously? When you are hammering for the Strava KOM is comfort really a thing? How 'comfortable' exactly does anyone expect to be on a bicycle?

Bontrager H2 2.0" didn't flat for me until their 5th year of 7d/wk urban riding. In the same riding Kenda Kwest flat 2x/dy! Schwalbe Big Apple, weekly. Schwalbe Big Apple with Mr. Tuffy Liner, bi-monthly (from the liner chafing the tube) Schwalbe Marathon, roughly quarterly. I have some Bontrager H2 Hardcase in 700c x 25 and to some they are garden hose, but you know what? If you beat me with your amazing tubeless set up it won't be because of that. It will be because you are 30y.o. and I am 65. But my tire is NOT going to flat. I mean that. I don't even carry tire levers when I am rocking the Bonties. So your tubeless rig better not even lose 10psi of pressure on challenge day because if it does, it's going to be real close. And if it loses all pressure and you have to go plug it, or put in a tube, or whatever other ju ju
y'all's have to do when spit happens, it's all over.

When people race cyclocross or ride gravel they don't worry about steel belt tire wires getting into their tires. Tubeless were originally MTB kit. Makes more sense there. Little or no glass. Less man made junk. Still, if the tires are puncturing and sealant is needed to prevent air loss, then the tire has failed. I just don't feel like gambling that the light, supple, amazing gravel ride tubeless will have a good day today and not let me down. I'd rather use a heavier, slower, tire and have peace of mind. When such tires are made in tubeless format, call me. I might answer.
There you have it....
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Old 06-02-23, 01:34 PM
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I have a lot of cyclist friends, always criticize tubeless, and never tried them, its very fustrating hear people talk about something only because they saw or read post or youtube videos about tubeless
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Old 06-02-23, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm
You know, at the core of this statement re: tire levers vs magic, lies the foundation ethos of my thinking about the entire tubeless vs tubed paradigm. Tubeless culture has developed a following of devotees that make the technology work through all manner of art, craft, and when all that fails, force of will, and seize on every triumph as more justification to put the hair shirt on another day and ride. Tell the truth, have you ever seen the sheer amount of ... drama that surrounds the adoption of a tubeless lifestyle duplicated in the tubed tire world?
There appears to be more of an anti-tubeless culture here. Complete and utter bs.
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Old 06-02-23, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
There appears to be more of an anti-tubeless culture here. Complete and utter bs.
These forums are ever descending into permanent Luddite territory, with virtually no constructive discussion on current issues and trends. Here are some of the never-ending debates not discussed anywhere in the regular cycling community, whether it's hobbyist, weekly club rider or competitor. It begins with the "Steel is real" crowd believing some mass-produced Columbus tubed lugged frame is the pinnacle of bicycle design and the others are all inferior, then there are the friction shifters, triple chainring, skinny narrow high-pressure tires, tubular over clincher, rim brakes are all you need because they can skid on demand and now tubeless.

Previously I have ranted about the aging demographic and the diminishing relevance of this forum, yet I still hang around, comment and preach to a deaf audience, and that's on me. It would be nice to discuss current solutions and ideas without every topic being derailed with some anti-technology screed. For example, I was able to push my GRX 810 2X system to operate seamlessly with an 11-40 cassette but I would like to know if anyone has had success with 11-42. How about experiences with different sealants, I initially loved Silcas product as it was transformative in its ability to plug large punctures but now find the carbon fibres are clumping is this normal, what do others prefer?

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Old 06-02-23, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged
These forums are ever descending into permanent Luddite territory, with virtually no constructive discussion on current issues and trends. Here are some of the never-ending debates not discussed anywhere in the regular cycling community, whether it's hobbyist, weekly club rider or competitor. It begins with the "Steel is real" crowd believing some mass-produced Columbus tubed lugged frame is the pinnacle of bicycle design and the others are all inferior, then there are the friction shifters, triple chainring, skinny narrow high-pressure tires, tubular over clincher, rim brakes are all you need because they can skid on demand and now tubeless.

Previously I have ranted about the aging demographic and the diminishing relevance of this forum, yet I still hang around, comment and preach to a deaf audience, and that's on me. It would be nice to discuss current solutions and ideas without every topic being derailed with some anti-technology screed. For example, I was able to push my GRX 810 2X system to operate seamlessly with an 11-40 cassette but I would like to know if anyone has had success with 11-42. How about experiences with different sealants, I initially loved Silcas product as it was transformative in its ability to plug large punctures but now find the carbon fibres are clumping is this normal, what do others prefer?
I understand your frustration. I have found a few pockets of productive and respectful discussion, but it's less frequent than it should be. That said, there are some folks on here who I genuinely enjoy interacting with, and some of them have changed my opinions on things.

As for sealant, I've only used Orange Seal Endurance, and haven't yet had a reason to look for an alternate. I have nothing for you on11-40 vs. 11-42 with 2x.
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Old 06-02-23, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged
It would be nice to discuss current solutions and ideas without every topic being derailed with some anti-technology screed.
Geeze, if you want to discuss something, start a thread! Youíve started only 10 threads over four years. Whatís stopping you?
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Old 06-02-23, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged
These forums are ever descending into permanent Luddite territory, with virtually no constructive discussion on current issues and trends. Here are some of the never-ending debates not discussed anywhere in the regular cycling community, whether it's hobbyist, weekly club rider or competitor. It begins with the "Steel is real" crowd believing some mass-produced Columbus tubed lugged frame is the pinnacle of bicycle design and the others are all inferior, then there are the friction shifters, triple chainring, skinny narrow high-pressure tires, tubular over clincher, rim brakes are all you need because they can skid on demand and now tubeless.

Previously I have ranted about the aging demographic and the diminishing relevance of this forum, yet I still hang around, comment and preach to a deaf audience, and that's on me. It would be nice to discuss current solutions and ideas without every topic being derailed with some anti-technology screed. For example, I was able to push my GRX 810 2X system to operate seamlessly with an 11-40 cassette but I would like to know if anyone has had success with 11-42. How about experiences with different sealants, I initially loved Silcas product as it was transformative in its ability to plug large punctures but now find the carbon fibres are clumping is this normal, what do others prefer?
Somehow, despite all these apparent issues with tubeless tyres, I find myself preferring them to tubed clinchers or tubs. I must be crazy!

I use Muc-off sealant, which has worked well for me and is easy to clean off (water soluble). I noticed the tell-tale spattering of it on my seat tube last weekend after it had successfully sealed another puncture without significant loss of pressure. It was quite a big cut too, worst Iíve had this year. I buy the 1 litre bottles supplied with silicon tube to fill through the valve stem.
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Old 06-02-23, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by smd4
Geeze, if you want to discuss something, start a thread! Youíve started only 10 threads over four years. Whatís stopping you?
How many threads are people supposed to start in 4 years? I have a feeling Iím not going to meet the quota.
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Old 06-02-23, 10:06 PM
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I have Conti GP 5000s with light weight tubes and it makes for a very good ride. As you know, they are fast and grip well. I have the tubed variety on another bike and theyíre tubeless on a third. Love Ďem.


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Old 06-03-23, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Eric F
How many threads are people supposed to start in 4 years? I have a feeling Iím not going to meet the quota.
Since you seem to have missed it, the point is that heís complaining about not being able to discuss certain topics. He has the ability to start threads on those very topics, but has not. Which sort of calls into question the credibility of his *****ing (ďcomplainingĒ).
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Old 06-03-23, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by smd4
Since you seem to have missed it, the point is that heís complaining about not being able to discuss certain topics. He has the ability to start threads on those very topics, but has not. Which sort of calls into question the credibility of his *****ing (ďcomplainingĒ).
I think this is the crux of the post:

...without every topic being derailed with some anti-technology screed

Starting a thread doesn't prevent this part from happening
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Old 06-03-23, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by LesterOfPuppets
I think this is the crux of the post:

...without every topic being derailed with some anti-technology screed

Starting a thread doesn't prevent this part from happening
But the bolded part is a complete fallacy.
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Old 06-03-23, 10:33 AM
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And can we call this thread a technology thread, but consider it now derailed by a discussion of discussions?
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Old 06-03-23, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by smd4
But the bolded part is a complete fallacy.
Hmmm. You must have Leisesturm on ignore.

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