Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > General Cycling Discussion
Reload this Page >

Number of Your fault MVA accidents over last 10 years

Notices
General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!
View Poll Results: How many at fault car accidents have you had in 10 years?
None
38
84.44%
None that were my fault
4
8.89%
1
2
4.44%
2-3
0
0%
4 or more
0
0%
None of your dang business
1
2.22%
Voters: 45. You may not vote on this poll

Number of Your fault MVA accidents over last 10 years

Old 06-08-23, 09:54 PM
  #1  
rsbob 
Grupetto Bob
Thread Starter
 
rsbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Seattle-ish
Posts: 4,999

Bikes: Bikey McBike Face

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2013 Post(s)
Liked 4,067 Times in 2,204 Posts
Number of Your fault MVA accidents over last 10 years

Whether right or wrong, my assumption is that cyclists tend to be more cautious drivers since they have to much to lose when on their bikes. I see a lot of cross pollination between road biking and driving a motor vehicle. Did some internet research before posting this and could not find any conclusive stats on the average or median number of accidents per driver in the US over a decade. But thought it would be interesting to see nonetheless.
__________________
Road 🚴🏾‍♂️ & Mountain 🚵🏾‍♂️








rsbob is offline  
Old 06-09-23, 03:45 AM
  #2  
indyfabz
Senior Member
 
indyfabz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 37,578
Mentioned: 208 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17441 Post(s)
Liked 13,528 Times in 6,428 Posts
Iím an excellent driver.


indyfabz is offline  
Likes For indyfabz:
Old 06-09-23, 04:54 AM
  #3  
livedarklions
Tragically Ignorant
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8183 Post(s)
Liked 9,077 Times in 5,047 Posts
Was this guy a bicyclist?

https://abc7.com/gas-station-pump-fi...ment/12531041/
livedarklions is offline  
Old 06-09-23, 04:55 AM
  #4  
PeteHski
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 6,321
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3215 Post(s)
Liked 3,522 Times in 2,221 Posts
I have had no car accidents in the last 38 years, ever since I had my one and only (so far) minor bump when I was 17. I honestly don't think in my case it has much to do with cycling or even being a cautious driver - which I am certainly not! I put it down to good spatial awareness, quick reactions and good hand-eye co-ordination. I have always been good at sports like football (soccer) and tennis, which generally require these skills. I also don't tend crash my bike very often for the same reasons. I'm also a very good skier FWIW.

So I think it's more a case of genetics vs whether or not you happen to ride bikes. But perhaps people who struggle more with balance, co-ordination, reactions etc are less inclined to take up cycling, which could then give you a secondary correlation between cyclists and number of car accidents.
PeteHski is offline  
Likes For PeteHski:
Old 06-09-23, 05:18 AM
  #5  
Dino_Sore
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Posts: 72
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Liked 44 Times in 29 Posts
I find that when I drive a car, I scan the road like I would if I were riding a bike. This causes me to drive a little slower and have better "situational awareness." I think all of us have experienced those moments on a bike when you just get a feeling that something bad is about to happen, and you back off, slow down, move to a safer spot, etc. I really think this translates into driving a car where I always try not to get myself into dangerous situations. (And it's not like I'm just some old fogey who drives around with the left turn signal on all the time; I used to own two race cars).
Dino_Sore is offline  
Likes For Dino_Sore:
Old 06-09-23, 06:17 AM
  #6  
BTinNYC
...
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: Whitestone and Rensselaerville, New York
Posts: 1,022

Bikes: Bicycles? Yup.

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 309 Post(s)
Liked 916 Times in 472 Posts
I've remained lucky with crashes. I've devolved into a not-so-good driver, seems like I'm less attentive as more things are surprising me on the road. So I drive like an old fart, much slower than I used to, and really, less aggressively than I used to in my yoot.
BTinNYC is offline  
Old 06-09-23, 06:44 AM
  #7  
Koyote
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 7,259
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6499 Post(s)
Liked 10,144 Times in 4,346 Posts
Why bother with a completely unscientific bf poll, which will generate zero reliable conclusions, when professionals have actually studied this?
Koyote is offline  
Old 06-09-23, 06:53 AM
  #8  
Jughed
Full Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2023
Location: Eastern Shore MD
Posts: 491

Bikes: Trek ALR/Giant TCX/Sette CX1

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 310 Post(s)
Liked 416 Times in 206 Posts
Zero crashes...

And I've been driving my son's driving simulator a bunch - training with the top GT3 and supercars, taking laps in F1 cars...

I can feel the difference when weaving and bobbing thru heavy traffic in my 2500 pick em up. My commute times have been significantly reduced - I can fit that truck into all sorts of situations now and recover when I get loose in the shoulder.
Jughed is offline  
Old 06-09-23, 09:02 AM
  #9  
mpetry912 
aged to perfection
 
mpetry912's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: PacNW
Posts: 1,366

Bikes: Dinucci Allez 2.0, Richard Sachs, Alex Singer, Serotta, Masi GC, Raleigh Pro Mk.1, Hetchins, etc

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 628 Post(s)
Liked 822 Times in 449 Posts
slightly OT I have had TWO close encounters with Teslas that I beleive were on FSD.

They came up VERY aggressive, much more so than if they were under the control of a conscientious driver.

in my mirror I could see the woman behind the wheel doing... something ... on the touch screen

this thing is much worse than a bad driver. it simply does not recognize a cyclist until very close... if at all

and it has no provision in the code for the consequences of it's actions.

/markp
mpetry912 is offline  
Old 06-09-23, 09:13 AM
  #10  
squirtdad
Senior Member
 
squirtdad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Jose (Willow Glen) Ca
Posts: 9,546

Bikes: Kirk Custom JK Special, '84 Team Miyata,(dura ace old school) 80?? SR Semi-Pro 600 Arabesque

Mentioned: 103 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2152 Post(s)
Liked 2,423 Times in 1,342 Posts
what does this have to do with cycling?
__________________
Life is too short not to ride the best bike you have, as much as you can
(looking for Torpado Super light frame/fork or for Raleigh International frame fork 58cm)



squirtdad is offline  
Likes For squirtdad:
Old 06-09-23, 12:42 PM
  #11  
rsbob 
Grupetto Bob
Thread Starter
 
rsbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Seattle-ish
Posts: 4,999

Bikes: Bikey McBike Face

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2013 Post(s)
Liked 4,067 Times in 2,204 Posts
Originally Posted by squirtdad
what does this have to do with cycling?
Absolutely nothing. Thank you for being suckered-in. And situational awareness, like in cycling, is totally irrelevant; just in case you put more thought into it than required.
__________________
Road 🚴🏾‍♂️ & Mountain 🚵🏾‍♂️








rsbob is offline  
Old 06-09-23, 01:18 PM
  #12  
rsbob 
Grupetto Bob
Thread Starter
 
rsbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Seattle-ish
Posts: 4,999

Bikes: Bikey McBike Face

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2013 Post(s)
Liked 4,067 Times in 2,204 Posts
Originally Posted by PeteHski
I have had no car accidents in the last 38 years, ever since I had my one and only (so far) minor bump when I was 17. I honestly don't think in my case it has much to do with cycling or even being a cautious driver - which I am certainly not! I put it down to good spatial awareness, quick reactions and good hand-eye co-ordination. I have always been good at sports like football (soccer) and tennis, which generally require these skills. I also don't tend crash my bike very often for the same reasons. I'm also a very good skier FWIW.

So I think it's more a case of genetics vs whether or not you happen to ride bikes. But perhaps people who struggle more with balance, co-ordination, reactions etc are less inclined to take up cycling, which could then give you a secondary correlation between cyclists and number of car accidents.
Interesting comment/s. Had not thought about it quite like that. I too played on a tennis team, was a competitive slalom skier, played soccer, but did crash my mountain bike for the first two years testing my limits and skill building. Also have taken performance driving courses and raced on a track, if that matters. However, I would rate my reaction speed as average.

It may be a combination of reaction speed, (like the pothole I narrowly swerved around at the last minute yesterday while riding at 21 MPH), situational awareness honed through cycling and coordination.

Like others have pointed out, there is nothing in the least scientific about the survey and any conclusions would be sketchy at best. But my underlying bias was that the count of accidents would be very low.

NHTSA for 202o reported a total of 5,250,837 collisions happened over the course of a single year. There were 228,195,802 licensed drivers in the US in 2020, which yields 2.3% of drivers had accidents or multiple. Crudely extrapolating over ten years would yield 23%. So, if this poll result was far less than 23%, say, 10% it might still might have slight significance.
__________________
Road 🚴🏾‍♂️ & Mountain 🚵🏾‍♂️








rsbob is offline  
Old 06-09-23, 02:00 PM
  #13  
daihard 
Just a person on bike
 
daihard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 2,139

Bikes: Specialized Roubaix, Tern HSD, Dahon Speed D7

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 132 Post(s)
Liked 85 Times in 56 Posts
Originally Posted by Dino_Sore
I find that when I drive a car, I scan the road like I would if I were riding a bike. This causes me to drive a little slower and have better "situational awareness." I think all of us have experienced those moments on a bike when you just get a feeling that something bad is about to happen, and you back off, slow down, move to a safer spot, etc. I really think this translates into driving a car where I always try not to get myself into dangerous situations. (And it's not like I'm just some old fogey who drives around with the left turn signal on all the time; I used to own two race cars).
Riding a bicycle has definitely changed how I drive. Not that I drive a whole lot lately, but when I do, I always look out for other, non-driving road users to make sure I don't compromise their safety. That includes stopping for people at or in an crosswalk, passing people on bike with enough clearance, etc.
__________________

The value of your life doesn't change based on the way you travel. - Dawn Schellenberg (SDOT)
daihard is offline  
Likes For daihard:
Old 06-09-23, 02:04 PM
  #14  
Steve B.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: South shore, L.I., NY
Posts: 6,453

Bikes: Flyxii FR322, Cannondale Topstone, Miyata City Liner, Specialized Chisel, Specialized Epic Evo

Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2971 Post(s)
Liked 1,716 Times in 977 Posts
One MVA in ‘91, not my fault. Zero before that since I got my license in 1972. So total of 1 in 51 years. 800,000 plus miles driven as well.
Steve B. is offline  
Old 06-09-23, 02:15 PM
  #15  
Koyote
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 7,259
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6499 Post(s)
Liked 10,144 Times in 4,346 Posts
Originally Posted by squirtdad
what does this have to do with cycling?
I provided a link in post #7 which will take you to a list of actual studies about the connection between cycling and incidence of motor vehicle accidents. No one has acknowledged it, though, since most people on bf would rather hear themselves chatter about anecdotal experience than actually put in the work to learn things.
Koyote is offline  
Likes For Koyote:
Old 06-09-23, 02:20 PM
  #16  
genejockey 
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
 
genejockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 15,645

Bikes: Litespeed Ultimate, Ultegra; Canyon Endurace, 105; Battaglin MAX, Chorus; Bianchi 928 Veloce; Ritchey Road Logic, Dura Ace; Cannondale R500 RX100; Schwinn Circuit, Sante; Lotus Supreme, Dura Ace

Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8931 Post(s)
Liked 9,995 Times in 5,086 Posts
Some guy backed into me in the parking lot at Costco - I backed out, he backed out of a space on the other side of the lane. We call them "accidents", but pretty much always somebody did something wrong.
__________________
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."

"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
genejockey is offline  
Old 06-09-23, 02:30 PM
  #17  
Koyote
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 7,259
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6499 Post(s)
Liked 10,144 Times in 4,346 Posts
Originally Posted by rsbob
NHTSA for 202o reported a total of 5,250,837 collisions happened over the course of a single year. There were 228,195,802 licensed drivers in the US in 2020, which yields 2.3% of drivers had accidents or multiple. Crudely extrapolating over ten years would yield 23%. So, if this poll result was far less than 23%, say, 10% it might still might have slight significance.
oof. So much wrongness.

Think more carefully about these numbers and get back to us.
Koyote is offline  
Old 06-09-23, 03:28 PM
  #18  
Calsun
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Posts: 1,114
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 519 Post(s)
Liked 315 Times in 242 Posts
I disagree and I noticed that I might be bothered by motorists when out on the road but when I got in my car my mindset switched and I was in a hurry for no reason at all. People get into accidents from driving too fast or from being distracted (smoking, drinking, eating, texting, putting on makeup, etc.) while driving.
Calsun is offline  
Old 06-09-23, 03:37 PM
  #19  
DonkeyShow
Full Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2021
Posts: 323
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 192 Post(s)
Liked 226 Times in 135 Posts
None cause the cop ****ed up in court thankfully. Youth act also saved my ass once.
DonkeyShow is offline  
Old 06-09-23, 03:38 PM
  #20  
Fahrenheit531 
52psi
 
Fahrenheit531's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 4,080

Bikes: Schwinn Volare ('78); Raleigh Competition GS ('79)

Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 776 Post(s)
Liked 747 Times in 360 Posts
Originally Posted by rsbob
NHTSA for 202o reported a total of 5,250,837 collisions happened over the course of a single year. There were 228,195,802 licensed drivers in the US in 2020, which yields 2.3% of drivers had accidents or multiple. Crudely extrapolating over ten years would yield 23%. So, if this poll result was far less than 23%, say, 10% it might still might have slight significance.
Ummm... no.
__________________
A race bike in any era is a highly personal choice that at its "best" balances the requirements of fit, weight, handling, durability and cost tempered by the willingness to toss it and oneself down the pavement at considerable speed. ~Bandera
Fahrenheit531 is offline  
Likes For Fahrenheit531:
Old 06-09-23, 03:57 PM
  #21  
50PlusCycling
Senior Member
 
50PlusCycling's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 898
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 420 Post(s)
Liked 548 Times in 300 Posts
I live in Japan, there is no such thing as an "accident" here. Any collision here is regarded as "negligence." Any collision resulting in an injury is considered a crime, with serious consequences, any collision resulting in death will result in a mandatory prison sentence for the driver, regardless of the circumstances. Because of these, I drive carefully, as does everyone else, and it’s much safer to ride a bike in Japan than other places.
50PlusCycling is offline  
Old 06-09-23, 06:25 PM
  #22  
rsbob 
Grupetto Bob
Thread Starter
 
rsbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Seattle-ish
Posts: 4,999

Bikes: Bikey McBike Face

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2013 Post(s)
Liked 4,067 Times in 2,204 Posts
Originally Posted by Fahrenheit531
Ummm... no.
Happy to liven up the conversation, even at my expense. I have no stake in the numbers or my outrageous unverifiable conclusion. Just generating some stories and conversation.

Koyote did provide a good link quantifying that cyclists make better drivers. Thanks
__________________
Road 🚴🏾‍♂️ & Mountain 🚵🏾‍♂️









Last edited by rsbob; 06-09-23 at 06:33 PM.
rsbob is offline  
Old 06-09-23, 06:41 PM
  #23  
Koyote
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 7,259
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6499 Post(s)
Liked 10,144 Times in 4,346 Posts
Originally Posted by rsbob
Happy to liven up the conversation, even at my expense. I have no stake in the numbers or my outrageous unverifiable conclusion. Just generating some stories and conversation.
Okay, then.

Originally Posted by rsbob
NHTSA for 202o reported a total of 5,250,837 collisions happened over the course of a single year. There were 228,195,802 licensed drivers in the US in 2020, which yields 2.3% of drivers had accidents or multiple. Crudely extrapolating over ten years would yield 23%. So, if this poll result was far less than 23%, say, 10% it might still might have slight significance.
Your calculations implicitly assume that each of those "collisions" are single car accidents...But I would expect that most involve multiple (two or more) drivers. (This could be confirmed by reading the fine print at the NHTSA website.) If so, you are already grossly underestimating the number of individual drivers who are involved in accidents in a given time period.

​​​​​​
Originally Posted by rsbob
NHTSA for 202o reported a total of 5,250,837 collisions happened over the course of a single year. There were 228,195,802 licensed drivers in the US in 2020, which yields 2.3% of drivers had accidents or multiple. Crudely extrapolating over ten years would yield 23%. So, if this poll result was far less than 23%, say, 10% it might still might have slight significance.
Now you are implicitly assuming that each of these drivers is involved in just ONE accident in a ten-year period, which is assuredly incorrect. Some of those drivers account for multiple accidents in any ten-year period. So, you are now overestimating the number of individual drivers who are involved in accidents in a given period.

​​​​​​
Originally Posted by rsbob
NHTSA for 202o reported a total of 5,250,837 collisions happened over the course of a single year. There were 228,195,802 licensed drivers in the US in 2020, which yields 2.3% of drivers had accidents or multiple. Crudely extrapolating over ten years would yield 23%. So, if this poll result was far less than 23%, say, 10% it might still might have slight significance.
Given that the NHTSA's dataset is huge, and your bf sample is necessarily tiny and (likely) heavily biased, the results would have no significance. None, as in zero.

Let's also remember that, in any auto accident involving multiple (two or more) vehicles, typically one party is over 50% at fault -- sometimes 100% at fault. Hence, using raw accident stats to draw some conclusion about people's driving abilities is specious.

Once again, I will mention that actual citations to properly done studies were provided in post #7.

Last edited by Koyote; 06-09-23 at 06:45 PM.
Koyote is offline  
Likes For Koyote:
Old 06-09-23, 08:01 PM
  #24  
rsbob 
Grupetto Bob
Thread Starter
 
rsbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Seattle-ish
Posts: 4,999

Bikes: Bikey McBike Face

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2013 Post(s)
Liked 4,067 Times in 2,204 Posts
Originally Posted by Koyote
Okay, then.



Your calculations implicitly assume that each of those "collisions" are single car accidents...But I would expect that most involve multiple (two or more) drivers. (This could be confirmed by reading the fine print at the NHTSA website.) If so, you are already grossly underestimating the number of individual drivers who are involved in accidents in a given time period.

​​​​​​

Now you are implicitly assuming that each of these drivers is involved in just ONE accident in a ten-year period, which is assuredly incorrect. Some of those drivers account for multiple accidents in any ten-year period. So, you are now overestimating the number of individual drivers who are involved in accidents in a given period.

​​​​​​

Given that the NHTSA's dataset is huge, and your bf sample is necessarily tiny and (likely) heavily biased, the results would have no significance. None, as in zero.

Let's also remember that, in any auto accident involving multiple (two or more) vehicles, typically one party is over 50% at fault -- sometimes 100% at fault. Hence, using raw accident stats to draw some conclusion about people's driving abilities is specious.

Once again, I will mention that actual citations to properly done studies were provided in post #7.
Gee I hope you feel better getting that off your chest. And I DID mention the study you cited in my last post. Have a good evening.
__________________
Road 🚴🏾‍♂️ & Mountain 🚵🏾‍♂️








rsbob is offline  
Old 06-09-23, 09:51 PM
  #25  
Koyote
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 7,259
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6499 Post(s)
Liked 10,144 Times in 4,346 Posts
Originally Posted by rsbob
And I DID mention the study you cited in my last post.
Seems like you must've added that line while I was typing...But you aren't interested in discussing it(?) So what was the point of the thread, if you're not interested in actual reliable info about the topic?
Koyote is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.