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What are these called and how can I remove them for painting?

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What are these called and how can I remove them for painting?

Old 06-09-23, 08:15 PM
  #1  
hph
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What are these called and how can I remove them for painting?

Or should I not try to?
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Old 06-09-23, 08:21 PM
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Bearing cups. There is a tool for it, but a carefully placed drift punch or the like will remove them with a few light taps of a hammer. If you don't have a punch, a screwdriver you don't give a damn about will suffice.
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Old 06-09-23, 08:34 PM
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Just look inside there with a flashlight and you will see the inside lips of those headset cups that your tool will bear against when you gently tap them out.
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Old 06-09-23, 08:59 PM
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They are headset cups and this would be the tool to remove them with a hammer: https://www.parktool.com/en-us/produ...p-remover-rt-1

And yes I would remove them. I would use the tool unless you are replacing the headset with a new one. Screwdrivers are great for driving screws but I wouldn't want to use it as a punch and the punch method could work but it might be a bit slower and a tad more difficult. I would rather just have it out quickly and easily.
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Old 06-09-23, 09:37 PM
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Removing Head Cup?
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Old 06-10-23, 12:21 AM
  #6  
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Why paint it? Have you ever painted a bike before? It's difficult, time consuming, and can be an expensive mistake.
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Old 06-10-23, 06:40 AM
  #7  
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Painting one's own bike is obsolete and archaic ... pay someone. it is the modern way.

Those are headset bearing cups. it is sort of important that the inside of the cup (not the sleeve which extends into the head tube) remain unpainted and undamaged, as that is the surface where all the weight of the front end of the bike is borne, and if the bearing cups are damaged you will not be able to steer well .... assuming you value steering.

You can place the end of a short board (2x4, 1x2, 1x3 sort of thing) against the outside of the cup and tap with a hammer (the board should deform before the cup.) Work your way around the cup and be gentle. If you stretch the head tube you are out of luck---the frame is ruined beyond repair.

If you have a long screwdriver, a strong PVC tube, or a board or dowel which fits, you can Possibly insert it in the other end of the head tube, catch the edge of the lip of the sleeve section of the cup, and tap it out---again, gently and working your way around the cup.

Alternatively, you could just mask the cups really well with tape ... or, if you like the style, just mask the inside (pretty much essential) and paint the outside.

As for painting a bike being hard ..... I will not say much. Clint Eastwood told me that a good man knows his limitations. I think a lot of people have limits which extend beyond using a rattle can or even an airbrush.

In painting preparation is the whole game, I hear .... so whatever you choose is your choice. Personally I'd rank properly removing and installing a head-set cup (considering the potential fatal possibilities if you fail) to be harder than painting a bike .... but we are all different.

But keep in mind, I am both obsolete and archaic.
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Old 06-10-23, 07:17 AM
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Simple, cheap DIY headset bearing cup removal tool —

Dan
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Old 06-10-23, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Maelochs
Painting one's own bike is obsolete and archaic ... pay someone. it is the modern way.

In painting preparation is the whole game, I hear .... so whatever you choose is your choice. Personally I'd rank properly removing and installing a head-set cup (considering the potential fatal possibilities if you fail) to be harder than painting a bike .... but we are all different.

But keep in mind, I am both obsolete and archaic.
What do you mean potentially fatal? As long aa they're not beat up and reinserted properly, the whole assembly is held together with the fork nuts, right?

Originally Posted by SurferRosa
Why paint it? Have you ever painted a bike before? It's difficult, time consuming, and can be an expensive mistake.
Can you elaborate? This bike has the paint scratched thru and rusting in a lot of places, so aside from the cost of paint/primer and effort involved, what are the risks?
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Old 06-10-23, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by hph
Can you elaborate? This bike has the paint scratched thru and rusting in a lot of places, so aside from the cost of paint/primer and effort involved, what are the risks?
The risk is that it looks like a rattle can el cheapo amateur job and ages even worse ... plus you spend 20 hours on it. You might want to read some threads about frame painting before you try it. It's not like painting a fence.

Maybe show some photos of how bad it is. Patina and original paint are not a bad thing. Some touch up can go a long way.
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Old 06-10-23, 11:19 AM
  #11  
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Originally Posted by SurferRosa
The risk is that it looks like a rattle can el cheapo amateur job and ages even worse ... plus you spend 20 hours on it. You might want to read some threads about frame painting before you try it. It's not like painting a fence.

Maybe show some photos of how bad it is. Patina and original paint are not a bad thing. Some touch up can go a long way.
What's the harm in him wanting to try to paint it himself? It's an old Schwinn, not some rare collectible frameset. IMHO, "patina" is the avant garde way of saying "I'm too lazy to spend 20 hours painting".
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Old 06-10-23, 12:05 PM
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Use a length of PVC that’ll fit inside the cups without too much room. Hold it at the inside lip, just crooked enough that the edge of the plastic catches the inside of the cup. Give it a few whacks and it’ll pop off. If you ruin the pipe, no big deal.
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Old 06-10-23, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Bald Paul
What's the harm in him wanting to try to paint it himself? It's an old Schwinn, not some rare collectible frameset. IMHO, "patina" is the avant garde way of saying "I'm too lazy to spend 20 hours painting".
Well, I tried. Good luck to him.
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Old 06-10-23, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by hph
What do you mean potentially fatal? As long aa they're not beat up and reinserted properly, the whole assembly is held together with the fork nuts, right?
Because, at BeikForumz, all mechanical work must be done to aerospace standards, preferably in clean -room conditions, and only by the most expertly trained, silver-brazed technicians; otherwise, your bicycle will experience a rapid, unscheduled disassembly; possibly maiming bystanders with flying shrapnel, and throwing you into traffic, and under the wheels of the nearest transit bus or gasoline tanker. Fatal, every time.

Originally Posted by hph
Can you elaborate? This bike has the paint scratched thru and rusting in a lot of places, so aside from the cost of paint/primer and effort involved, what are the risks?
DIY painting a bike is "deceptively simple" the process is pretty straightforward, but there's a LOT of details that are both tedious, and can make or break the finished product if you try to cut corners.
Cleaning and prep takes a lot of work by hand, especially if the frame's already showing rust or corrosion. Commercial sand / media blasting can knock this out in a couple minutes, and generally do a more thorough job than you could in a whole weekend with sandpaper and wire brushes.
Paint, too; rattle -can spray paint isn't nearly as thick as a factory paint, so it doesn't fill in chips or scratches in the original paint without filler and (more) sanding. Even going from bare metal, spray paint just doesn't hold up as well against nicks and scratches.
Bike frames are deceptive because while they don't have much surface area, there's tons of angles and it's all cylinders, so you have to paint it from about 4 different angles, then flip it upside down and hit about three more, to get pain on everything; all the while maintaining proper distance to get good coverage, while avoiding drips or runs.
You can easily go through two large cans to get a single good coat on a frame.
The Cannondale I just painted took 7 large cans; 1 primer, 2 base, 2 color (metallic), and 2 cans of clear (cause I wanted it really shiny)


TLDR; DIY spray paint is a lot of work to get right, but not as durable as OE; Professional paint jobs can be very expensive due to the labor/skill involved
Sandblast and powder -coat is durable and cost-effective, can be a good option, especially if your provider does a lot of bikes.
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Old 06-10-23, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by SurferRosa
The risk is that it looks like a rattle can el cheapo amateur job and ages even worse ... plus you spend 20 hours on it. You might want to read some threads about frame painting before you try it. It's not like painting a fence.

Maybe show some photos of how bad it is. Patina and original paint are not a bad thing. Some touch up can go a long way.
Fair enough, I'm a firm believer in polish but I dont think that will make it look much better than it currently does and I'm not super happy with how it looks now. The original color is nice but there's not much I can do about these huge rusty scrapes. And of course the decals aren't supposed to be bleeding like that.



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Old 06-10-23, 12:55 PM
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Skip cheap spray paint. I myself have used powdercoaters at reasonable cost

https://spraybike.us/

Also look at 2K paints

​​​​​​https://www.spraymax.com/en-us/technology/
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Old 06-10-23, 01:01 PM
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I have done a rattle can paint job and can attest to the amount of time , cost , and tedious work involved. Not to mention the results , for me , we’re not as good as I expected. I have had two bikes done by pro’s and both came out way better . One bike was done by a local powder painter that has done bike frames . That one cost me $100 and included media blast, special primer , and final coat …it came out good and after I put the decals on , the bike looked really nice. The second bike was done by a pro painter , Franklin Frames in Ohio. He prepared the frame , primed and painted to original color, put the correct decals on , and clear coated . The bike is show quality and cost less than $600 including the matching Silca frame pump. Now you have to consider shipping and that was about $100 each way including insurance( it is an expensive bike). The bike and the choice is up to you. The folks on this forum , many of whom have been the same circle as me , will probably offer similar advice ….for good reason. I , personally feel , leaving a bike in its original state is better than a rattle can paint job, unless you have plenty of time and special talents.
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Old 06-10-23, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by hph
That doesn't look bad at all.

File/sand the rust. Remove all of the components. Wet sand with very fine 2000 grit paper the decal bleed. Take the fork to an auto parts store and match the paint with the best aerosol they have. Mask off the good paint and repaint the previously rusted spots. This will be a lot of work, but it won't be anything like painting the whole frame.

As to the lazy "lazy" comment previously, there's nothing "lazy" about completely refurbishing a bike. It takes a lot of time and tools to overhaul and polish everything, which, in the end, is far more important than a half-assed rattle can paint job.
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Old 06-10-23, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by hph
Or should I not try to?
If this is a one time deal, and the other removal suggestions don't work, consider your LBS. They won't charge much for the removal.

If you're going to do this more than once, then purchase the correct tools

Pics loaded backwards and I am far too lazy to swap them

The bottom pic is a headset cup removal tool. You pull it through until you hear the "thack" of it resting on the cup, then use a mallet to tap it out.
Consider a new headset
The top pic is an installation press tool
You'll need it to reinstall the headset
Also good to installing press fit bottom brackets.


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Old 06-10-23, 01:33 PM
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Also, I second the professional powder coat.
$125-140 for a basic sandblast and powdercoat (generally)
If you get fancy, the price goes waaay up.

I just had 2 frames painted.

Saved me an insane amount of time and effort.
My time is too valuable for do it yourself paint.... and I'm a cheap bastard!
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Old 06-10-23, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by SurferRosa
That doesn't look bad at all.

File/sand the rust. Remove all of the components. Wet sand with very fine 2000 grit paper the decal bleed. Take the fork to an auto parts store and match the paint with the best aerosol they have. Mask off the good paint and repaint the previously rusted spots. This will be a lot of work, but it won't be anything like painting the whole frame.
Good idea, part of the thing is that pretty much all the brightwork on this is rusting/flaking. So the idea I had was to blast the rust and stuff off that and end up painting most of that too. I have another bike that was roughly 1/3 this rusty in the brightwork and that one I got to polish up ok, but just barely. Obviously polishing it up would be a paint prep step anyway but I'm just planning what I want to do right now.

Also there are some car parts that I need to paint or have painted at some point, so I was wanting to get some painting experience, but it sounds like it might be better to just prep all that and have someone else do the actual painting in that case. The car body itself is already done, it's just some small stuff that needs done.
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Old 06-10-23, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by CrimsonEclipse
$125-140 for a basic sandblast and powdercoat (generally)
Depends where you live. Here, it was $175 pre-pandemic. Now, it's above $200, and that's a single frame/fork, not a tandem.

And has the op priced used tandems? People can't give them away. Even custom tandems are going for just a couple hundred dollars now.
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Old 06-10-23, 02:01 PM
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I mean, I can clean and polish it in an hour but the thing needs greased up anyway so I thought it might be nice to paint it while it's disassembled. I don't mind if it's not perfect or takes a while. Dealing with the brightwork is a problem of its own, however.
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Old 06-10-23, 03:59 PM
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That bike doesn’t look too bad, outside of the down tube and “boom” between the cranks
I agree that something like 2K or DupliColor automotive paint would probably match up well with the original lacquer
You might even be able to get away with clay bar and clearcoat paint correction on the parts that don’t have any rust
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Old 06-10-23, 05:30 PM
  #25  
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I was out all day and could not respond to the OP but .... yeah, you don't want to get the headset wrong.

I am a big DIY guy, which is why I offered suggestions ... but since the headset controls the steering ... I mean, who steers anyway, right?

Nothing there a careful person cannot do well, but I am definitely extra careful when playing with stuff which could cause the steering to malfunction .... You don't want a cup slightly angled, for instance, and an errant whack with a hammer on the cup could, might, probably not but could make it just enough out of round that even if you got the race in place, it could tear itself up in use.
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