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Waxing Chain Just Trend or usefull?

Old 10-24-23, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Steel Charlie
Belief systems are immune to logic or reason. Waxers will never become oilers. I'm an oiler. Waxing is absurd in the 21st Century.

Rust never sleeps
...And yet, Oilers do become Waxers.

When theory does not match observation, theory is wrong. That's the thing about the scientific method. Those not bound by dogma and bias let the results speak for themselves.

When I find rust, I'll let you know. I'll be doubly sure to post to the thread when I finally do wear out a chain. 5000+ miles so far on my Cervelo with a standard, run of the mill 11 speed XTR/Dura-Ace chain. Less than 0.25% wear. So...Uh...Better than many NEW KMC chains I have measured.

Anecdote of one? Sure. Enough to convince you? Probably not.
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Old 10-24-23, 01:29 PM
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5000+ mi? Sure, but to get it there you had to remove, wax and replace it 25 times ..
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Old 10-24-23, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Steel Charlie
Belief systems are immune to logic or reason. Waxers will never become oilers. I'm an oiler. Waxing is absurd in the 21st Century.

Rust never sleeps
LOL - My belief system is based in science. I believe in verifiable, replicatable studies, and independently verify through my own n=1 testing. If an oil shows up that tests better than wax and suits my needs, I'll jump.

Glad you like your oil. Enjoy it in good health.
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Old 10-24-23, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Racing Dan
5000+ mi? Sure, but to get it there you had to remove, wax and replace it 25 times ..
Putting aside the fact that that is a trivial operation once you've done it a time or two, the existence of drip wax makes this demonstrably false. It is entirely possible to use drip wax just like oil - wipe the chain down and reapply as needed. No muss, no fuss. Full immersion waxing is for extra credit, and even then, you top off with drip wax between dips.
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Old 10-24-23, 02:09 PM
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Sure you can drip. I do that too. Im glad you agree hot waxing is silly amounts of work to save a few dollars. Because it is.
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Old 10-24-23, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Racing Dan
Sure you can drip. I do that too. Im glad you agree hot waxing is silly amounts of work to save a few dollars. Because it is.
No. I don't agree. Nothing I wrote suggests that.

I race and use expensive components, so I hot wax my chains every 100-1500 miles, and drip wax as needed. Takes very little time. A couple of minutes to pop the chain off and wipe it down, another minute or so to throw on a waxed chain. The hot waxing takes place in a $10 crock pot while I ride, watch TV, sleep, or post to Bike Forum. The drip waxes between hot waxings take exactly the same amount of time as oiling used to. I do spend a lot less time dripping Dawn on my hands and clothes to wash off the chain oil stains I used to get.

Here's what I don't get. No one is telling you to wax. I'm happy you have a maintenance regimen that works for you. Why do you care someone else opts for a different strategy? We're just leaving more oil for you!
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Old 10-24-23, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Steel Charlie
Belief systems are immune to logic or reason. Waxers will never become oilers. I'm an oiler. Waxing is absurd in the 21st Century.

Rust never sleeps
Lots of waxers became oilers. I waxed way back quite a few decases ago. I switched to oil based stuff. In more recent years I started using Prolink or Boeshield T-9 which I believe are parafin based so technically wax. I assume they are not what folks are talking about when they say wax though.

So if you consider them wax I switched back, but I haven't used hot wax in maybe 40 years. I wouldn't dream of bothering with it these days. I typically used a rotation of two chains and waxed them both at one time and didn't wax again until both were used and ready to wax again. It worked fine. So does T-9, but I find T-9 easier.

I did find it funny that waxing is apparently the new tech. I thought it was something we did 50 years ago.
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Old 10-24-23, 02:30 PM
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Doesn't make much sense claiming hot waxing is great and not a lot of work, because you can just not do it and drip wax most of the time .. haha!

(Btw its exactly what I said in #293, now you throw it in my face.)
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Old 10-24-23, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Racing Dan
Doesn't make much sense claiming hot waxing is great and not a lot of work, because you can just not do it and drip wax most of the time .. haha!

(Btw its exactly what I said in #293, now you throw it in my face.)
We disagree. C'est la vie.
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Old 10-24-23, 04:58 PM
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I don't care what others do .... but i dropped a chain yesterday, in the worst possible way ... the kind where the chain wraps between the small ring and the frame, and it takes a very careful series of manipulations to free the chain without grinding the frame.

I was patient, and careful, and actually got the chain free much more easily than usual, with no frame damage. I was thrilled.

The fact that my hands were exactly as clean when I finished as when I started was just a bonus.
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Old 10-24-23, 07:37 PM
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Been using this for several years...

Oh no!!! Does that make me a chain waxer???
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Old 10-24-23, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by DangerousDanR
Been using this for several years...

Oh no!!! Does that make me a chain waxer???
Not if it's a non-dairy product.
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Old 10-24-23, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
Not if it's a non-dairy product.
It is OU Pareve so I can use it with dairy or meat!
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Old 10-24-23, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Maelochs
I don't care what others do .... but i dropped a chain yesterday, in the worst possible way ... the kind where the chain wraps between the small ring and the frame, and it takes a very careful series of manipulations to free the chain without grinding the frame.

I was patient, and careful, and actually got the chain free much more easily than usual, with no frame damage. I was thrilled.

The fact that my hands were exactly as clean when I finished as when I started was just a bonus.
in that situation wouldn't loosening the QR have helped?
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Old 10-24-23, 08:06 PM
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I'm guessing ring means chain-ring.
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Old 10-24-23, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by staehpj1
I did find it funny that waxing is apparently the new tech. I thought it was something we did 50 years ago.
I scoffed at it in the late 1980s when friends waxed their chains. Now I do it, but I never thought of it as new, let alone "tech."
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Old 10-24-23, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Racing Dan
Sure you can drip. I do that too. Im glad you agree hot waxing is silly amounts of work to save a few dollars. Because it is.
For cross season it doesn't seem like silly amounts of work. I toss the bike in the stand, rub the chain down with a rag to get the slight amount of dirt on it off, remove the chain and toss it in the pot. Then I pull the rear wheel, give the axle a test spin to see how its moving, put the wheel back on and clean it and the rear of the bike. I spin the crank to see how the bb is and hang the chain to cool, clean the rest of the frame and pull the front wheel to test the bearings. Once that's done I install the wheel and clean it and the fork, install the chain and run through the shifting. So far checking the bearings as taken longer than doing the chain. My cross bike is still sitting in the second arm of the stand waiting for new wheel bearings to arrive as the 3yr old enduro bearings in the front hub seized up after the last ride. But the chain is cleaned, waxed and long since installed.
Although I don't go nuts on constantly inspecting the bikes, the frequency of the waxing is around the same as when the bike needs a decent wipe down and the process takes about as long as it takes to wipe down a bike. Nothing more than a little basic maintenance. And it isn't about saving money, it was the track bikes that got me interested, low maintenance bikes that would get a slight watt benefit from wax vs oil, not a lot but can matter to a 12yo trying to propel a track bike to over 26mph in a sprint in which the difference between first and third on the podium was .4 seconds. Not having grease marks on the kids after their training sessions was a bonus. I already had fairly low mess chains with the oil based lubes from the way I maintain things but the wax really made them even cleaner and that was what pushed me to switch the rest of the bikes.
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Old 10-25-23, 04:21 AM
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Shimano recommends not re-using their quick links and they are spendy what are people doing in that regard if pulling chains every week or so?
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Old 10-25-23, 05:03 AM
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Ignoring Shimano .....






.... or using competitors' products.
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Old 10-25-23, 05:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Racing Dan
5000+ mi? Sure, but to get it there you had to remove, wax and replace it 25 times ..
Originally Posted by Racing Dan
Sure you can drip. I do that too. Im glad you agree hot waxing is silly amounts of work to save a few dollars. Because it is.
Originally Posted by Racing Dan
Doesn't make much sense claiming hot waxing is great and not a lot of work, because you can just not do it and drip wax most of the time .. haha!

(Btw its exactly what I said in #293, now you throw it in my face.)
I suppose it depends on a variety of factors. For me maintenance time has reduced drastically since our family has so many bikes and there's more coming all the time as the kids grow bigger.

If I were to spend time wiping and oiling chains like I used to I'd be spending a lot more time in the garage. With a crock pot of hot wax and a pot of boiling water I can treat all spent chains at the same time and nearly the same effort. When it comes time to swap a chain for a fresh one I can do that when it's needed, be it before someone sets out on their bike or after they get home complaining about a noisy chain. Once you get good at it swapping a chain really doesn't take long. The biggest hurdle is getting a freshly waxed quick link to mesh but with connex quick links that's not really an issue.

I do admit that you do need a whole system for time savings. But once that system is up and running it's well worth it.
If you think having a system for waxing chains is silly compared to having a rag and a bottle of oil, well that's your opinion. I Hhwever equate it with the other maintenance systems I've gathered over the years. I have a tool cart, spare parts in labeled containers organized on shelves and a really good work stand so I can wrench our bikes more easily and conveniently. Was building such a system a smart option? Financially wise? Probably not. It would be much cheaper to keep all the tools and parts in a large bin and just flip the bikes upside down on the floor when they need to be worked on. And I could say that I don't need a whole system to wrench our bikes. But having a nice working area and a wrenching system makes the whole process quicker and more enjoyable. Like with the waxing system. And the waxing system was really cheap compared to the wrenching system. Workstands or tool carts don't come cheap.

As to price, well we used to go through drivetrains like nobody's business. That was mainly because I didn't have the time to keep up with maintenance needs of oiled chains in the conditions we were facing every winter. Our conditions may be somewhat unique from what the average Bike Forums poster experiences. During the winter due to the close vicinity to the coast we experience a particularly long period of slush. Combine that with the heavy use of road salt and the fine dust that spiked car tires grind off the roads and it's brutal on chains. Black oily sludge with wet lubes OR bright orange chains in one ride with dry lubes. Chains would wear without indicating it, because a gunk filled chain doesn't indicate stretch with a wear meter. So to know how worn down our chains were I would have had to deep clean / degrease them before measuring. I didn't.
I tried to wash the chains a few times with a pressure washer but keeping a bike and drivetrain clean is such a huge undertaking (per bike) that I just gave up.

After starting this whole waxing thing I haven't had to replace anything yet. Not even chains. And I don't need to clean drivetrains. At all. Ever. In any way.
(I don't count boiling the chains really as cleaning as it's part of the waxing process and literally takes 5 seconds to swish the chain in the water before plopping it in the wax)

I also don't drip wax (yet). I know I should start doing that because we tour and I suspect immersion waxing on tour might be a tad cumbersome. It's just a question of buying something or making it myself...
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Old 10-25-23, 05:47 AM
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Originally Posted by elcruxio
I also don't drip wax (yet). I know I should start doing that because we tour and I suspect immersion waxing on tour might be a tad cumbersome. It's just a question of buying something or making it myself...
You must do short tours, at least thus far in your waxing experience. On a multi month tour you pretty much have to lube, right? Some may do it, but I certainly am not going to imersion wax on tour.

I have to admit that I am confused with what folks are referring to as drip wax. Do they include the many parafin based liquid lubes? If so that includes a lot of the liquid lubes on the market. I'd imagine that most folks don't really differentiate whether a lube is parafin or oil and say they oil if using a parafin based liquid lube like prolink or boesheild.
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Old 10-25-23, 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted by staehpj1
You must do short tours, at least thus far in your waxing experience. On a multi month tour you pretty much have to lube, right? Some may do it, but I certainly am not going to imersion wax on tour.

I have to admit that I am confused with what folks are referring to as drip wax. Do they include the many parafin based liquid lubes? If so that includes a lot of the liquid lubes on the market. I'd imagine that most folks don't really differentiate whether a lube is parafin or oil and say they oil if using a parafin based liquid lube like prolink or boesheild.
This is probably the best one. or at the very least, one of the best. https://road.cc/content/review/12803-squirt-lube What makes it so good is the tenacity & density of the emulsion. You still really ought to start with a de-petroliumed chain put a drop on every link then free-wheel the chain backwards to ensure it really penetrates where it should before applying a second drop per link. Then give it enough time for the water that carries the wax to fully evaporate, like overnight or an afternoon in the sun on the back patio.

This wax can get a bit gummy and a bit grimey looking as it doesn't really flake off in the way that a crock-pot dip does. A tooth brush addresses that, though. Still, it is way, way cleaner than any variety of oil or the oil process. It was my gateway to the crock-pot method and in my head, it still a good substitute for the crock-pot. If I were doing a tour or something, I would take a toothbrush and a bottle of Squirt with me.
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Old 10-25-23, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by base2
This is probably the best one. or at the very least, one of the best. https://road.cc/content/review/12803-squirt-lube What makes it so good is the tenacity & density of the emulsion. You still really ought to start with a de-petroliumed chain put a drop on every link then free-wheel the chain backwards to ensure it really penetrates where it should before applying a second drop per link. Then give it enough time for the water that carries the wax to fully evaporate, like overnight or an afternoon in the sun on the back patio.

This wax can get a bit gummy and a bit grimey looking as it doesn't really flake off in the way that a crock-pot dip does. A tooth brush addresses that, though. Still, it is way, way cleaner than any variety of oil or the oil process. It was my gateway to the crock-pot method and in my head, it still a good substitute for the crock-pot. If I were doing a tour or something, I would take a toothbrush and a bottle of Squirt with me.
Thanks for the info, but I'll probably stick with Prolink or T-9. I have been satisfied with the results and like the ease of application. I lightly apply, spin the cranks a few revolutions and wipe the chain as dry as I can. Easy peasy. It seems to give me great chain life, a pretty clean drive chain, and minimal fuss. Not knocking other methods, but I am pretty satisfied with what I have been using.
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Old 10-25-23, 07:07 AM
  #324  
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Originally Posted by staehpj1
Thanks for the info, but I'll probably stick with Prolink or T-9. I have been satisfied with the results and like the ease of application. I lightly apply, spin the cranks a few revolutions and wipe the chain as dry as I can. Easy peasy. It seems to give me great chain life, a pretty clean drive chain, and minimal fuss. Not knocking other methods, but I am pretty satisfied with what I have been using.
boeshield T9 did not do really great in this test. I have been using it but think i will move to something further up the list.
https://zerofrictioncycling.com.au/lubetesting/
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Old 10-25-23, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by staehpj1
Thanks for the info, but I'll probably stick with Prolink or T-9. I have been satisfied with the results and like the ease of application. I lightly apply, spin the cranks a few revolutions and wipe the chain as dry as I can. Easy peasy. It seems to give me great chain life, a pretty clean drive chain, and minimal fuss. Not knocking other methods, but I am pretty satisfied with what I have been using.
I was fairly happy with T-9 until I tried hot wax. Definitely not going back.
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