Rick

The Rad Power ebike that lost the wheel had lawyer lips. Functional illiteracy is a thing. Because the rider of that ebike didn't know enough about QRs or had very little interest in maintaining that ebike he was injured. I looked it up several cracked ribs a busted cLavicle and some road rash. and of course, his lawyer is doing a class action lawsuit. I saw two mormon missionaries pushing their MTBs a couple of years ago and had a chat with them. One of their bicycles was missing the adjusting nut on the front QR. Fortunately he had noticed it before needing to apply the brakes very hard. I had a couple of spares and demonstrated how they work. I watched him put it on and adjust it. The only real cure for this is better education.

I file off the lawyer lips on my bicycles because they defeat the usefulness of the quick release.

wolfchild

Maybe not a legal requirement but they still have a purpose.

wolfchild

I have wheel sets with nutted axles and quick release, the lawyer tabs have never been an issue for me on any of my wheels...You're imagining problems which don't exist.

smd4

No one is saying they don’t have a purpose. Their purpose is to protect people who may not use their quick releases properly. They’re simply unnecessary and annoying for everyone else (present company excepted). They’re like adult training wheels, or kids’ scissors with the blunt tips.

smd4

Sure, an imaginary problem. Which explains why the pros use lawyer lips.

Russ Roth

OP, at the lowest end, even in the bike shops, the manufacturers don't really care about the quality of the bike. Its the same reason those cheap bikes have freewheel hubs, freewheels worked fine when bikes were 5sp and 6sp and axles were only 126mm. When they went 7sp and 135mm the axles became much more prone to bending and yet all their cheap bikes have freewheels. They don't care as much about the customer as making something workable enough to part you from your money by giving you the appearance of a quality bike.

The family and I came out of a MTB trail that only has an intermediate loop leading to advanced loops and were immediately judged as amateurs because 3 of the 5 bikes still had dork disks and wheel reflectors. The other two bikes had custom wheels which I don't bother installing them on. Like somehow, we should just remove them because we ride trails and no serious rider would ever keep them on. We use lights at night so we don't need them but outside of road racing/tri bikes I don't understand the obsession with removing them so you look more serious.

I have several bikes with QR and disc and while I don't think its a safety issue I do think that thru-axles make a difference, especially on cheaper bikes. My cheapest bike now has TRP hy/rd brakes, so not cheap junk, and the front brake has to be adjusted every so often or the wheel wiggled to line it up, an effect of the cheap fork. The tail end of my c-dale has had to be adjusted once or twice but I've never had to adjust the brake on its mid-range thru-axle fork. Thru-axle I've never had a problem.

Above certain price points bike shops don't bother installing them because shops know the riders probably don't want them. Wouldn't want to throw out a number but there was only a handful of time that a customer buying a road or MT bike that cost more than 1500 who asked for the reflectors to be installed, 1500 being the point at which we didn't bother installing them. We never bothered removing spoke protectors unless someone directly requested them.

The same reason I've done 68mph on the highway in the 55mph zone, cause if the police pulled over everyone they could they would just be writing endless tickets to no real effect.

smd4

To each their own. Wife and oldest son have reflectors, youngest son removed his. And yes, dad’s Cinelli would look stupid with them.

Rick

Tullio Campagnolo the inventor of the QR created the perfect way to secure the bicycle wheel. It even secures wheels that utilize the disk brake. Lawyer lips don't even solve the problem they were designed to solve.


​​​​​​​Say that to the clown who lost the wheel even with lawyer lips .

shelbyfv

You've used this term a number of times but it doesn't mean what you think it does. From the NIH- "A person is functionally illiterate who cannot engage in all those activities in which literacy is required for effective functioning of his group and community and also for enabling him to continue to use reading, writing, and calculation for his own and the community’s development (UNESCO, 1978, p.183).” Obviously someone does not have to be literate to learn how to use a QR. Maybe just use ignorance if you feel compelled to go on about this sort of thing in the future.

Maelochs

I have never rad any instructions on, for, or about the use of QR skewers.

I think the poster might be trying to say, "willfully ignorant" or maybe "deserving of a Darwin Award."

Rick

I may not be perfect on some descriptions but stupidity gets on my nerves. I do not remove lawyer lips on others bicycles. I have many times shown people how to properly use and adjust their QRs. I worked in several bicycle shapes over the years. Two of them were in student towns. If you want to discuss a darwin award, take a look at some of the lawsuits against ebike companies. Things like a wheel falling off, my stem was loose and my favorite my brakes didn't work. We have a darwin problem. Now a battery catching fire and a 30,000 cargo bike recall due to tires splitting off the rim and all of these things happening to one company Their are problems I would prefer it if people were serious about bicycles to learn enough so allot of these problems don't cause injury or death.

uete

cyccommute 

You really need to set up the spell checker and perhaps learn some grammar. Your posts are very difficult to parse.

That said, the stuff you list as the basis for lawsuits against e-bike companies seem to be self-inflicted. Wheels falling off? Sounds like they aren’t sufficiently attached. Brakes don’t work? Perhaps user error but, again, e-bikes do ask more of the brakes than an analog bike does. Battery fires? That’s not something you can “learn enough so allot of these problems” would go away. A lot of the problems that you list are design problems. There are some good e-bikes out there but there are an awful lot of BSO e-bikes as well. A whole bunch of them are being sold by fly by night companies for cheap. BSO bikes from HellMart may be dangerous but at least they can’t go all that fast. Putting a motor on one and making it capable of going 20+ mph is just beyond stupid.

But that’s not the fault of the consumer.

Rick

CYCCOMMUTE

Regardless of who started putting lawyer lips on bicycles. It is a failure. They helped to create an atmosphere of dependency on someone else will fix your problems. If I was a judge and someone showed up in court with a sue me lawyer going on about there wheel falling off, I would throw the case out based on its lack of merit and would make them pay the court costs if possible. Most of these lawsuits are self inflicted as you say. I picked up my current bicycle with disk brakes in March of 2014. I was unaware of any danger of the front wheel becoming loose. after reading about the problem several years later I started tightening the adjusting side of the QR tighter.

stan01

Well said. I wasn't trying to give an exact history lesson but trying to put things into perspective. When I said that the TA system was a recent invention, it was a generalization because till the last decade, manufacturers couldn't decide on a T/A standard as has been the case for so many other bike related things. Until manufacturers get their S@#T together, consumers end up buying bikes with technologies that become obsolete very quickly & then finding parts for that tech become harder to find down the road if not impossible.

Fredo76

As a member of a popular bicycle club in the early seventies, one that held monthly non-riding, sit down meetings with 40-50 people, I can report that cyclists were genuinely concerned that the new Consumer Product Safety Commission would effectively outlaw nice bicycles. Both the bicycle industry and cycling advocacy groups made a considerable effort to be allowed tight frame geometry, narrow tires, quick releases, drop bar brakes, open chainwheels, etc., because draconian restrictions were expected from un-knowledgeable regulators.

I believe 'lawyer lips' and requirements for numerous reflectors were compromises.

The generally preferred light in the early seventies was a strap-on leg light with a white light pointed forward, and a red light pointed rearward. Not very effective for path illumination, but the movement when pedaling was good for visibility.

Lastly, in my opinion, the category of people who apparently believe that putting others down builds themselves up is over-represented on Bike Forums. For shame. ​​​​​​​

Paul Barnard

I have 3 bikes with QR and discs. The QRs have never come loose. I have one bike with TA and discs. The TA did loosen up one time. It appears that you may have to be sure that things are tight on things that need to be tight, but I am not a professional mechanic.