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Disc brakes and quick releases – what's the deal?

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Disc brakes and quick releases – what's the deal?

Old 09-24-23, 02:42 PM
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The Rad Power ebike that lost the wheel had lawyer lips. Functional illiteracy is a thing. Because the rider of that ebike didn't know enough about QRs or had very little interest in maintaining that ebike he was injured. I looked it up several cracked ribs a busted cLavicle and some road rash. and of course, his lawyer is doing a class action lawsuit. I saw two mormon missionaries pushing their MTBs a couple of years ago and had a chat with them. One of their bicycles was missing the adjusting nut on the front QR. Fortunately he had noticed it before needing to apply the brakes very hard. I had a couple of spares and demonstrated how they work. I watched him put it on and adjust it. The only real cure for this is better education.

It's a good thing you didn't take advice from some bikeforums experts who advocate grinding the lawyer tabs off because they say that those lawyer tabs are annoying and serve no useful purpose.
I file off the lawyer lips on my bicycles because they defeat the usefulness of the quick release.
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Old 09-24-23, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by smd4
And…lawyer lips aren’t legally required. Get it?

(That’s a rhetorical question.)
Maybe not a legal requirement but they still have a purpose.
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Old 09-24-23, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Rick



I file off the lawyer lips on my bicycles because they defeat the usefulness of the quick release.
I have wheel sets with nutted axles and quick release, the lawyer tabs have never been an issue for me on any of my wheels...You're imagining problems which don't exist.
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Old 09-24-23, 03:08 PM
  #104  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild
Maybe not a legal requirement but they still have a purpose.
No one is saying they don’t have a purpose. Their purpose is to protect people who may not use their quick releases properly. They’re simply unnecessary and annoying for everyone else (present company excepted). They’re like adult training wheels, or kids’ scissors with the blunt tips.
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Old 09-24-23, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by wolfchild
You're imagining problems which don't exist.
Sure, an imaginary problem. Which explains why the pros use lawyer lips.
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Old 09-24-23, 03:41 PM
  #106  
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OP, at the lowest end, even in the bike shops, the manufacturers don't really care about the quality of the bike. Its the same reason those cheap bikes have freewheel hubs, freewheels worked fine when bikes were 5sp and 6sp and axles were only 126mm. When they went 7sp and 135mm the axles became much more prone to bending and yet all their cheap bikes have freewheels. They don't care as much about the customer as making something workable enough to part you from your money by giving you the appearance of a quality bike.

Originally Posted by smd4
Have you ever removed the reflectors on a new bike? How about the dork disk? Or maybe you can't read this?
The family and I came out of a MTB trail that only has an intermediate loop leading to advanced loops and were immediately judged as amateurs because 3 of the 5 bikes still had dork disks and wheel reflectors. The other two bikes had custom wheels which I don't bother installing them on. Like somehow, we should just remove them because we ride trails and no serious rider would ever keep them on. We use lights at night so we don't need them but outside of road racing/tri bikes I don't understand the obsession with removing them so you look more serious.

Originally Posted by Steamer
There isn't a safety issue.

Thru axles are mostly about the industry selling new stuff. They have some minor advantages, but again, it's mostly about selling stuff. To do so, they have to champion the awesomeness of the new thing, whatever that is this year.

Even if you buy the latest thing, chances are good that it will be "obsolete" within a decade in some way.
I have several bikes with QR and disc and while I don't think its a safety issue I do think that thru-axles make a difference, especially on cheaper bikes. My cheapest bike now has TRP hy/rd brakes, so not cheap junk, and the front brake has to be adjusted every so often or the wheel wiggled to line it up, an effect of the cheap fork. The tail end of my c-dale has had to be adjusted once or twice but I've never had to adjust the brake on its mid-range thru-axle fork. Thru-axle I've never had a problem.

Originally Posted by wolfchild
Majority of bikes sold through LBS don't come with reflectors.
Above certain price points bike shops don't bother installing them because shops know the riders probably don't want them. Wouldn't want to throw out a number but there was only a handful of time that a customer buying a road or MT bike that cost more than 1500 who asked for the reflectors to be installed, 1500 being the point at which we didn't bother installing them. We never bothered removing spoke protectors unless someone directly requested them.

Originally Posted by wolfchild
If reflectors are a legal requirement as you say, then why aren't cyclists being fined and ticketed for not having any reflectors on their bikes ?
The same reason I've done 68mph on the highway in the 55mph zone, cause if the police pulled over everyone they could they would just be writing endless tickets to no real effect.
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Old 09-24-23, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Russ Roth
outside of road racing/tri bikes I don't understand the obsession with removing them so you look more serious.
To each their own. Wife and oldest son have reflectors, youngest son removed his. And yes, dad’s Cinelli would look stupid with them.
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Old 09-24-23, 03:57 PM
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Tullio Campagnolo the inventor of the QR created the perfect way to secure the bicycle wheel. It even secures wheels that utilize the disk brake. Lawyer lips don't even solve the problem they were designed to solve.


You're imagining problems which don't exist.
​​​​​​​Say that to the clown who lost the wheel even with lawyer lips .
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Old 09-24-23, 05:24 PM
  #109  
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Originally Posted by Rick
Functional illiteracy is a thing. Because the rider of that ebike didn't know enough about QRs or had very little interest in maintaining that ebike he was injured.
You've used this term a number of times but it doesn't mean what you think it does. From the NIH- "A person is functionally illiterate who cannot engage in all those activities in which literacy is required for effective functioning of his group and community and also for enabling him to continue to use reading, writing, and calculation for his own and the community’s development (UNESCO, 1978, p.183).” Obviously someone does not have to be literate to learn how to use a QR. Maybe just use ignorance if you feel compelled to go on about this sort of thing in the future.
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Old 09-24-23, 06:34 PM
  #110  
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I have never rad any instructions on, for, or about the use of QR skewers.

I think the poster might be trying to say, "willfully ignorant" or maybe "deserving of a Darwin Award."
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Old 09-24-23, 07:30 PM
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I may not be perfect on some descriptions but stupidity gets on my nerves. I do not remove lawyer lips on others bicycles. I have many times shown people how to properly use and adjust their QRs. I worked in several bicycle shapes over the years. Two of them were in student towns. If you want to discuss a darwin award, take a look at some of the lawsuits against ebike companies. Things like a wheel falling off, my stem was loose and my favorite my brakes didn't work. We have a darwin problem. Now a battery catching fire and a 30,000 cargo bike recall due to tires splitting off the rim and all of these things happening to one company Their are problems I would prefer it if people were serious about bicycles to learn enough so allot of these problems don't cause injury or death.

uete
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Old 09-24-23, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Rick
I may not be perfect on some descriptions but stupidity gets on my nerves. I do not remove lawyer lips on others bicycles. I have many times shown people how to properly use and adjust their QRs. I worked in several bicycle shapes over the years. Two of them were in student towns. If you want to discuss a darwin award, take a look at some of the lawsuits against ebike companies. Things like a wheel falling off, my stem was loose and my favorite my brakes didn't work. We have a darwin problem. Now a battery catching fire and a 30,000 cargo bike recall due to tires splitting off the rim and all of these things happening to one company Their are problems I would prefer it if people were serious about bicycles to learn enough so allot of these problems don't cause injury or death.

uete
You really need to set up the spell checker and perhaps learn some grammar. Your posts are very difficult to parse.

That said, the stuff you list as the basis for lawsuits against e-bike companies seem to be self-inflicted. Wheels falling off? Sounds like they aren’t sufficiently attached. Brakes don’t work? Perhaps user error but, again, e-bikes do ask more of the brakes than an analog bike does. Battery fires? That’s not something you can “learn enough so allot of these problems” would go away. A lot of the problems that you list are design problems. There are some good e-bikes out there but there are an awful lot of BSO e-bikes as well. A whole bunch of them are being sold by fly by night companies for cheap. BSO bikes from HellMart may be dangerous but at least they can’t go all that fast. Putting a motor on one and making it capable of going 20+ mph is just beyond stupid.

But that’s not the fault of the consumer.
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Old 09-25-23, 11:19 AM
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CYCCOMMUTE

Regardless of who started putting lawyer lips on bicycles. It is a failure. They helped to create an atmosphere of dependency on someone else will fix your problems. If I was a judge and someone showed up in court with a sue me lawyer going on about there wheel falling off, I would throw the case out based on its lack of merit and would make them pay the court costs if possible. Most of these lawsuits are self inflicted as you say. I picked up my current bicycle with disk brakes in March of 2014. I was unaware of any danger of the front wheel becoming loose. after reading about the problem several years later I started tightening the adjusting side of the QR tighter.

Last edited by Rick; 09-25-23 at 01:40 PM.
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Old 09-26-23, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Kapusta
While it is true (as I pointed out earlier) that QR Disc forks and frames have been around a while, the timeline you are giving is a little off. But disc caught on fast and by the early-mid 2000’s they were the standard on any mid-high end bike.

TA, have actually been around since before 2000. Not sure when, but I remember them existing around 2000, and by the early 2000s there were many 20mm TA forks available, But it took a lot longer for TA to take over than it did for disc. And it took longer for rear wheels to go TA than forks.
But the point that there have long been QR disc forks and frames still stands.
Well said. I wasn't trying to give an exact history lesson but trying to put things into perspective. When I said that the TA system was a recent invention, it was a generalization because till the last decade, manufacturers couldn't decide on a T/A standard as has been the case for so many other bike related things. Until manufacturers get their S@#T together, consumers end up buying bikes with technologies that become obsolete very quickly & then finding parts for that tech become harder to find down the road if not impossible.
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Old 09-26-23, 01:25 PM
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As a member of a popular bicycle club in the early seventies, one that held monthly non-riding, sit down meetings with 40-50 people, I can report that cyclists were genuinely concerned that the new Consumer Product Safety Commission would effectively outlaw nice bicycles. Both the bicycle industry and cycling advocacy groups made a considerable effort to be allowed tight frame geometry, narrow tires, quick releases, drop bar brakes, open chainwheels, etc., because draconian restrictions were expected from un-knowledgeable regulators.

I believe 'lawyer lips' and requirements for numerous reflectors were compromises.

The generally preferred light in the early seventies was a strap-on leg light with a white light pointed forward, and a red light pointed rearward. Not very effective for path illumination, but the movement when pedaling was good for visibility.

Lastly, in my opinion, the category of people who apparently believe that putting others down builds themselves up is over-represented on Bike Forums. For shame. ​​​​​​​
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Old 09-26-23, 03:26 PM
  #116  
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I have 3 bikes with QR and discs. The QRs have never come loose. I have one bike with TA and discs. The TA did loosen up one time. It appears that you may have to be sure that things are tight on things that need to be tight, but I am not a professional mechanic.
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