Would You Buy a Chain coated in Paraffin?
While being entertained with the rehashed chemist vs non-chemist argument, it got me thinking. With all this talk about how crummy the coating is on new chains, how many of you would be more likely to choose a chain that came dipped in paraffin instead? Is that something manufacturers could offer?
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you can get them, but they are stupid expensive compared to the small time needed to strip the grease and wax it yourself, so I would say no.
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Same chain with same cost, sure. Cost a couple bucks extra, maybe depending on the current budget and how much I'm spending on other things. More than a couple bucks more and I'm cheaper than I am lazy.
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I don't forsee any manufacturers doing this because it's just not popular enough to the masses, so it'll remain something for the shops to do for resale hence the desired profit from the labor involved.
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The results from tests seem to be unequivocal---waxed chains stay cleaner and work better. I hate the idea of deviating from my decades-long chain lubing techniques, so I find the facts a bit annoying, but the numbers don't lie.
If I ran a company that manufactured bike chains, I'd be having some market analyses done right now to determine whether the cost of setting up a production line for waxing chains would be offset by significantly increased market share. Might not even cost very much to switch from the coatings used presently, so here's hoping that some manufacturer will go all in soon. |
Mass production doesn't lend itself to cost effective low volume specialized options.
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For someone who wants to wax it isn't a big deal to wax one. For someone who doesn't it is a pain to remove the wax, assuming they don't want to mix lube types. Personally I don't see it as much added value even for someone who wants to wax.
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson
(Post 23064250)
Silca beat you to it:
https://silca.cc/cdn/shop/files/Dura..._1800x1800.png https://silca.cc/collections/chain-l...xed-race-chain |
Originally Posted by jaxgtr
(Post 23064075)
you can get them, but they are stupid expensive compared to the small time needed to strip the grease and wax it yourself, so I would say no.
A note on the video on “How it’s made” video. Something that bugs us chemists is the constant misuse of chemical terms. The video says the chain is dipped in “hot oil” and that wiper wipe off the “excess grease”. Both are wrong characterization based on what is on the chain when it comes out of the box for the consumer. “Oil” implies a low viscosity fluid. Pools of oil should be found in the bottom of whatever container that the chain comes in. There would also be no need to heat an oil for the dip during construction process. Pools of oil in the chain box doesn’t happen. The “grease” coming off the chain is a soft solid. Or, in other words, a wax, albeit a soft wax. A “wax” is related to oil chemically but just isn’t fluid. A wax would need to be heated to make it possible to apply it to a chain. A wax doesn’t flow off the chain in the box. Finally, although I don’t have the information right at hand, years of looking into this subject have lead me to commercial products sold by companies for use in chain manufacturing. The commercial product is sold as a wax, not an oil. Finally, prewaxed chains using hard wax like the Silca product are pretty silly. The consumer is paying $50 for a treatment that lasts a few hundred miles at best. The soft wax used on a chain lasts a few hundred miles at best. Perhaps the Silca chain has undergone the elaborate cleaning process that wax advocates declare is absolutely necessary but that whole argument is based on flawed assumptions. |
No.
Even if it was the same price, I would not trust anyone else to do it. (Full disclosure: I am yet another chemist.) More seriously, the packing grease is formulated for long shelf live to keep the chain from oxidizing, not as an ideal lubricant. |
It would probably be good for Jimmy Buffet fans.
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Originally Posted by Trakhak
(Post 23064181)
The results from tests seem to be unequivocal---waxed chains stay cleaner and work better. I hate the idea of deviating from my decades-long chain lubing techniques, so I find the facts a bit annoying, but the numbers don't lie.
If I ran a company that manufactured bike chains, I'd be having some market analyses done right now to determine whether the cost of setting up a production line for waxing chains would be offset by significantly increased market share. Might not even cost very much to switch from the coatings used presently, so here's hoping that some manufacturer will go all in soon. There’s not really any need for the elaborate cleaning procedures used by many people. They aren’t based in any kind of measured or tested methodology but are based on what people think needs to be done. A single step of mineral spirits is all that is really needed to clean the chain sufficiently for either hot wax or solvent wax applications. Anything more than that is wasting time, energy, and chemicals. The exception is Squirt which is a different product that needs a bit more through cleaning. Since it uses surfactants to to hold the wax in a water base, it is less compatible with the factory wax. The amount of surfactant used is likely right at the edge of wax saturation in the mixture. Any added wax get excluded because there is a limit to how much wax the mixture can hold. The wax on the chain needs to be removed completely or the Squirt would sit on top of the existing wax. But a couple of washes of mineral spirits will do that job. There’s not need for a 47 step cleaning process. |
Originally Posted by cyccommute
(Post 23064302)
Honestly there is no reason why they should be expensive at all, certainly not around $50 more. The Dura Ace chain above costs $100 for a $50 chain.
But at the retail level, where they're prepping one chain at a time, and they're charging retail labor rates, $50 is not out of the ballpark. |
Yes, but only if done well for less than $10 more than market price of the base chain.
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It seems Winter has come early.
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Originally Posted by cyccommute
(Post 23064327)
I’ve used wax…solvent wax…for decades and I don’t disagree that they are cleaner. I’m not so sure about working “better” but they don’t work any worse than oil lubricants. There are a few wild claims made, that in my opinion and experience, are unbelievable but wax is certainly cleaner.
The problem isn’t on the manufacturing end. It’s on the consumer end. The factory already uses a wax lubricant but it isn’t widely available for home use so people end up using products that aren’t as good as what the factory uses. And the factory can’t control what gets thrown at the chain. |
Originally Posted by Trakhak
(Post 23064485)
Still, many cyclists are now aware of the merits of waxed chains. If a waxed version of a favorite chain cost only $10 or so more, some significant proportion of those cyclists would likely be willing to pay the difference. Whether, having discovered that maintaining the wax is a bit more involved than they expected, they'd continue to buy waxed chains is unpredictable.
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I would absolutely buy a pre-waxed chain. Failing that I would also buy a 'clean' chain that has no sticky goo on it.
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson
(Post 23064250)
Silca beat you to it:
https://silca.cc/cdn/shop/files/Dura..._1800x1800.png https://silca.cc/collections/chain-l...xed-race-chain |
Originally Posted by pdlamb
(Post 23064296)
So would I pay another $60 to get a pre-waxed chain? Er, nope!
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Originally Posted by urbanknight
(Post 23064074)
While being entertained with the rehashed chemist vs non-chemist argument, it got me thinking. With all this talk about how crummy the coating is on new chains, how many of you would be more likely to choose a chain that came dipped in paraffin instead? Is that something manufacturers could offer?
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Originally Posted by KerryIrons
(Post 23064665)
Ignoring the wax vs. no-wax argument, it's not clear to me why I would pay extra for a treatment that would last a couple of weeks (or less). I might as well take my chain to a bike shop and ask them to wax it (not likely to happen). And as noted by others, having to stock twice as many chains would be a real disincentive to chain suppliers.
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Originally Posted by Polaris OBark
(Post 23064306)
More seriously, the packing grease is formulated for long shelf live to keep the chain from oxidizing, not as an ideal lubricant. Additionally, no chain instructions I’ve ever seen says to clean the chain before installation. The maintenance instructions from SRAM says Clean the cassette and chain with biodegradable cleaners only. Rinse thoroughly with water and allow the parts to dry, then lubricate the chain with chain lubricant. Lubricate regularly to extend the life of the chain. Finally, I have cleaned many new chains with a single volume (about 250 mL) of mineral spirits. Upon sitting, I noticed a phase separation with a flocculant type of material in the mixture. Oil in mineral spirits is essentially infinitely soluble. Wax in mineral spirits isn’t. There is a solubility limit for the wax. That’s what I observed in my solvent bottle. |
Originally Posted by terrymorse
(Post 23064341)
Sure. If done at the factory with a high enough production volume, it should cost very little extra to waxify a chain.
But at the retail level, where they're prepping one chain at a time, and they're charging retail labor rates, $50 is not out of the ballpark. But that doesn’t negate the fact that waxed chains have a limited use before the wax has to be reapplied. That $50 extra per chain is basically wasted money unless it comes with a “return it for rewaxing” program. |
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