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"Modern Day 105 is as good as..."

Old 11-14-23, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
Hold up, are you a witch?! How did you make that bike with 105 cost more than the bike's I posted which have 105?!

Hmm...thinking about this more, I am starting to think not all bikes with the same drivetrain cost the same amount of money. I may need to Google around a bit and find out.
I also made it heavier.
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Old 11-14-23, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Jughed
$5000 19.2# Road bikes?
Not going there today, it's irrelevant and pointless.
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Old 11-14-23, 01:05 PM
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I've ridden just about everything Shimano and Sram has put out up to today when I was in shops. Most issues were setup related. Poor internal cable routing can be a big problem as well.

My bikes over the years had 105 10sp, Force 10sp, Ultegra 6800 11 sp. The only issue I ran into was that I had to continue to make minor cable adjustments to the rear derailleur after every few rides. Sometimes I had to add tension, sometimes let tension out. Pulled the groupset off and installed Force 10sp. No more issues, and I prefer Sram shifting over Shimano even though I rode Ultegra 6800 for 8 years without any issues.
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Old 11-14-23, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Jughed
Yep, another good point - the rattling brifters.

I'm riding these two groupsets side by side right now - the old stuff is just better.
This is not without reason I buy massively Dura Ace 7800 components, it dwarfs the Dura Ace 7900, 9000, 9100 and 9200 functionnnality, reliability and beauty and even beats SRAM regarding shifting quality.
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Old 11-14-23, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by georges1
This is not without reason I buy massively Dura Ace 7800 components, it dwarfs the Dura Ace 7900, 9000, 9100 and 9200 functionnnality, reliability and beauty and even beats SRAM regarding shifting quality.

Dura Ace I think was the pinnacle of Shimano shifting. The newer stuff is nice, but there was something special about 7800. It was like melted butter.
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Old 11-14-23, 07:07 PM
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DA 7700 for me. Modern 105 *may* be functionally superior, but it will never be top of the line.
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Old 11-14-23, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Trakhak
Got sick of having to (attempt to) nurse them back to health by giving them messy baths in WD-40 and such.
This is the main reason I would prefer new 105 (or even Tiagra) over older anything. It seems like once you start the WD-40 baths, you find yourself having to do it more and more often until it's just a PIA.
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Old 11-15-23, 01:22 AM
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Originally Posted by frdfandc
Dura Ace I think was the pinnacle of Shimano shifting. The newer stuff is nice, but there was something special about 7800. It was like melted butter.
It didn't have cable eating shifters and bonded cranksets that break, that is enough to consider the quality of dura ace 7800. Also in terms of design, the Dura Ace 7800 was much nicer than the newer stuff.
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Old 11-15-23, 06:17 AM
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Originally Posted by frdfandc
Dura Ace I think was the pinnacle of Shimano shifting. The newer stuff is nice, but there was something special about 7800. It was like melted butter.
The pinnacle of 10-speed, external cable shifting certainly no question. Internal cables were certainly a challenge for shift quality, but they are now history at this level.
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Old 11-15-23, 06:43 AM
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Maybe there is something to this 105 bashing. The only brifters that have been hinky for me were 10sp 105. Obviously they work well for some.

I'll throw a dead fish in the punchbowl; the new Sora 9 speed brifters are pretty good! Even has lever pull adjustment. Lots of stamped parts and feels a little loosey-goosey, but very functional..reminds me of com-bloc small arms.
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Old 11-15-23, 12:41 PM
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Bottom line...There is something effed with groupset/bike on whatever it is Jughed owns. It's not the 105 groupset.
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Old 11-27-23, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Kai Winters
I'll also add the "Campy" is better post...
When I built my Merlin Ti back in '99 I bought a mix of Campy 9 speed carbon Super Record, Record and Chorus parts...what was available, what I liked more and what I could afford. I rode that group for over 21 years until the rear mech failed. I tried to get parts but couldn't find any that were new and I wasn't going to buy 20 year old parts on ebay...already had them lol.
No idea how many miles...likely well over 100k...but until the rear mech failed it was a perfect shifting machine and I loved it. It sucked that the shifters didn't work with any other era derailleurs else I'd still be on it. It was also the first Campy shifters that were made for hands smaller than Paul Bunyon's...the first I could get a finger on the brake levers from the drops...lol I have small hands...
i own a merlin agilis compact from 2002,witth a new r8000 group and new ksyrium elites. saving it for retirement.

btw - new campagnolo 10spd der. on ebay right now

105 is good stuff

nothing ever beat shimano 7400 and campagnolo 9spd Chorus, record and super record though, but i digress

i only use the 13 and 15 cog where i ride and only need chainrings, pulleys, chains and cassettes, bottom brackets and pads and bearings and hoods and new chamois's and new helmet pads and new tires. i think that's it. Shifting is flawless 👍

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Old 11-27-23, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by wheelreason
My whale oil lamp was the best...
You're just a shill for Big Whale Oil.
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Old 11-27-23, 08:55 PM
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I think that the story that current 105s are as good as Ultegra or DurAce of previous generation is made up by those who are selling fully assembled half-way decent bikes for good profit! 😉

I have an old steel frame Le Mond bike that came with Shimano 105 components. Normally, if I like how the bike rides, I upgrade most components but on this bike, other than wheels, I never got around to change anything*. The rear shifter/brake developed a little rattle that I couldn’t stop. But it still shifts well. I have had no serious issues to force me to throw the 105 shifters. Yes, esthetically they are no where as nice as DA 9x on Quantum but they are fully functional.

* Le Mond rides very well and may be it deserves an upgrade to DA!
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Old 11-28-23, 06:42 AM
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Originally Posted by frdfandc
Dura Ace I think was the pinnacle of Shimano shifting. The newer stuff is nice, but there was something special about 7800. It was like melted butter.
Campy 10 speed, Chorus or Record, the gold standard.

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Old 11-28-23, 07:30 AM
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Just my opinion, but the brake lever as a shifter paddle design of Shimano STIs takes a back seat to all of the other designs.(no matter what level we are talking about)

Also, is when Shimano started routing the cable from the rear what caused the cable eating problems?
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Old 11-28-23, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by seypat
Just my opinion, but the brake lever as a shifter paddle design of Shimano STIs takes a back seat to all of the other designs.(no matter what level we are talking about)
I sort of agree and I think SRAM took advantage of it in the electronic age i.e. I prefer their one paddle per side ergonomics.
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Old 11-28-23, 07:37 PM
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I know people who race on 105 and they have never had any issues.

I have a bike with all 105 components except the rear derailleur is Ultegra, but I bought the bike about 11 years ago and I haven't had one single problem with it, I don't have to adjust it either. Even the original cables are still working great!

I don't find that the 105 is cheap plastic crap, all 105 is, is trickle down Dura Ace, so if 105 is junk than so is Dura Ace because that's where 105 came from.

Shimano 105 Vs Ultegra Vs Dura-Ace: Weight, Cost, Spec Comparison | The Pro's Closet (theproscloset.com)
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Old 11-29-23, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by rekmeyata
I don't find that the 105 is cheap plastic crap, all 105 is, is trickle down Dura Ace, so if 105 is junk than so is Dura Ace because that's where 105 came from.
I see this all the time and wonder if those that claim it don't realize it isn't accurate, or don't care that it isn't accurate.
Different materials are used. And it's the same with 9sp Ultegra from 25 years ago vs current 9sp Sora- it is not simply trickledown, no matter how generously you use that term.
It's trickled own AND fundamentally different materials.
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Old 11-30-23, 04:27 AM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
I see this all the time and wonder if those that claim it don't realize it isn't accurate, or don't care that it isn't accurate.
Different materials are used. And it's the same with 9sp Ultegra from 25 years ago vs current 9sp Sora- it is not simply trickledown, no matter how generously you use that term.
It's trickled own AND fundamentally different materials.
True, but there are not actually many plastic parts used in modern 105. The structural parts are nearly all steel or aluminium. DuraAce uses some carbon parts and less steel to save a little weight. But otherwise the tech is the same.
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Old 11-30-23, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
True, but there are not actually many plastic parts used in modern 105. The structural parts are nearly all steel or aluminium. DuraAce uses some carbon parts and less steel to save a little weight. But otherwise the tech is the same.
If we are talking only the shift levers, sure the tech is largely the same in that both systems shift when you move the lever and paddle, and both systems stop the bike when you pull the lever. If we are talking 105 vs DA(which are groups and not just the shifters), it is not simply trickle down.
Pedal design and materials are different. RD materials and design are different. di2 shifter design and materials are different. Crank design and materials are different. Cassette materials are different.

But sure- 105 is trickle down in that DA gets a higher speed system or di2 first, then 105 is eventually increased with those same features. Again though, the actual materials are always different and often times the design is also different.


Maybe I am being obtuse. Or maybe the trickle down claim is used way too frequently without recognizing how much doesnt actually trickle down.
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Old 11-30-23, 10:15 AM
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Ever more gears, demand ever tighter tolerances and ever steeper chain-angles, placing not only demands on the individual components, cables, etc. But also on the frame geometry and accuracy. Slight misalignments makes adjusting impossible. So, perceived issues with the 105 stuff may originate in the frame, the not genuine Shimano cables, the complicated cable routing through the stem and frame that impede free cable movement, etc.

I used to own two almost identical tiagra 4700 equipped bikes. One had perfect front shifting, the other has a noticeable heavy pull, for no apparent reason other than slightly different cables and cable-routing. Had I only had one, I might have concluded tiagra 4700 is GB, however its not. Its the bike.
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Old 11-30-23, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by rekmeyata
I know people who race on 105 and they have never had any issues.

I have a bike with all 105 components except the rear derailleur is Ultegra, but I bought the bike about 11 years ago and I haven't had one single problem with it, I don't have to adjust it either. Even the original cables are still working great!

I don't find that the 105 is cheap plastic crap, all 105 is, is trickle down Dura Ace, so if 105 is junk than so is Dura Ace because that's where 105 came from.

Shimano 105 Vs Ultegra Vs Dura-Ace: Weight, Cost, Spec Comparison | The Pro's Closet (theproscloset.com)
Im sure 105 has some trickle down tech, but over all DA is much more refined. However, you need to look closely at some exploded views to notice or have it in your hand and take it apart. Its not immediately obvious from pictures or a spec sheet, but 105 definitely isn't the same thing in an other colour at 1/4 the price.
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Old 12-01-23, 08:22 AM
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This thread is still going?!

There is something effed with the particular groupset/bike on whatever it is Jughed owns. It's NOT a 105 problem.
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Old 12-01-23, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
If we are talking only the shift levers, sure the tech is largely the same in that both systems shift when you move the lever and paddle, and both systems stop the bike when you pull the lever. If we are talking 105 vs DA(which are groups and not just the shifters), it is not simply trickle down.
Pedal design and materials are different. RD materials and design are different. di2 shifter design and materials are different. Crank design and materials are different. Cassette materials are different.

But sure- 105 is trickle down in that DA gets a higher speed system or di2 first, then 105 is eventually increased with those same features. Again though, the actual materials are always different and often times the design is also different.


Maybe I am being obtuse. Or maybe the trickle down claim is used way too frequently without recognizing how much doesnt actually trickle down.
Really it's just the detail design that separates R7000/8000/9000. The underlying design concept is identical. What you get with DA are lighter components, higher quality bearings and a different finish. But my point was that 105 is not really full of plastic parts as some have suggested.
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