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"Modern Day 105 is as good as..."

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"Modern Day 105 is as good as..."

Old 12-01-23, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
But my point was that 105 is not really full of plastic parts as some have suggested.
It's got more steel, which might be even worse...
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Old 12-01-23, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by smd4
It's got more steel, which might be even worse...
Can you give me an example of an R7000 steel part where plastic would have been a better material choice?
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Old 12-01-23, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
Can you give me an example of an R7000 steel part where plastic would have been a better material choice?
Nope! But steel is heavier. Do you disagree?
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Old 12-01-23, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
Really it's just the detail design that separates R7000/8000/9000. The underlying design concept is identical. What you get with DA are lighter components, higher quality bearings and a different finish. But my point was that 105 is not really full of plastic parts as some have suggested.
I agree 105 isnt full of plastic parts in a negative and cheap quality way. I think you, and many others who preach the trickle down narrative, miss actual differences that 105 never sees even after 1 generation of separation from DA or Ultegra. If the differences arent meaningful to someone, then cool- ride 105. But that doesnt mean the differences dont exist.
Cranksets are designed differently. Like totally different design and manufacture processes.
Cassettes are use different materials.
Shifters have scrolling features.
ServoWave braking.
etc etc etc.
This stuff didnt trickle down and/or hasnt trickled down.

To be clear, I have 2x11 mechanical 105 on a road bike, 105 hydraulic 2x11 on a gravel bike, and another road bike that mixes 105 and Ultegra components. Its more than good enough for me, even though I recognize there are differences in materials, structural design, and features that did not trickle down to 105.
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Old 12-01-23, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by smd4
Nope! But steel is heavier. Do you disagree?
Obviously. So are you suggesting that anything made out of steel is worse than plastic just because it is heavier?
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Old 12-01-23, 12:40 PM
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Is there a history of newer 105s falling to pieces of failing due to plastic parts? I mean is it a common thing? Is it? No? That's what I thought. Calling something cheaply made because of the use of plastic isn't really meaningful without widespread failures to back up said assertion. Now if there is actual evidence to support widespread failures due to the plastic parts specifically, I'll listen. Widespread, not a few here or there that could possibly be attributed to abuse or other factors not related to the use of plastic.

I'll wait...


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Old 12-01-23, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Eric F
The best-shifting Shimano group was 10-speed Dura Ace, last generation with the shifter cables exiting the side of the lever (7800, I think)...IMO, YMMV.
Exactly why i went with it on my new bike build. Thats an SL4 frameset , so 2014-15ish and the D-A 7800 was replaced by 7900 in '09 , so my groupset is at least 5 years older than my frameset, but it all works quite well together and i also quite like the silver and polished finishes as opposed to the black stuff used today

And - call me a snob, but i'd rather use 15 year old Dura Ace than new 105 in an Apples to apples comparison. However, - there is no apples to apples comparison here. I'd like to try the 105 Di2

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Old 12-01-23, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
I agree 105 isnt full of plastic parts in a negative and cheap quality way. I think you, and many others who preach the trickle down narrative, miss actual differences that 105 never sees even after 1 generation of separation from DA or Ultegra. If the differences arent meaningful to someone, then cool- ride 105. But that doesnt mean the differences dont exist.
Cranksets are designed differently. Like totally different design and manufacture processes.
Cassettes are use different materials.
Shifters have scrolling features.
ServoWave braking.
etc etc etc.
This stuff didnt trickle down and/or hasnt trickled down.

To be clear, I have 2x11 mechanical 105 on a road bike, 105 hydraulic 2x11 on a gravel bike, and another road bike that mixes 105 and Ultegra components. Its more than good enough for me, even though I recognize there are differences in materials, structural design, and features that did not trickle down to 105.
Iím an experienced mechanical engineer so I fully appreciate the nuances of detail design and materials and the associated costs. But in this particular case I think the trickle down from DA 9000 to 105 7000 is pretty obvious if you step back from the detail component design/manufacture.

But we agree that plastic is not an issue with 105 as presented by the OP and several others along the way.
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