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Remakes of old school shifters

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Remakes of old school shifters

Old 11-27-23, 11:30 AM
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I’d call the Gevenalle brake/shift combos “brifters,” despite the fact shifting is handled by thumb or downtube shifters which can be operated in either friction or index mode (depending on shifter model). They can also dump the whole cassette in a single swipe.

Gevenalle also do their shifter on the TRP Hylex hydro brake format, but I dunno if that might be compatible with any Madura or other hydro rim brake.

In any case, Gevenalle are an answer for those who want both friction shifting and brifters, or just want to add brifters to old, single digit speed drivetrains.
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This is the remake of what I believe to be an older Suntour shifter. Their calling it the Command Wing Shifter.
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Old 11-27-23, 11:37 AM
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In addition to a handful of modern indexed shifting drop bar bikes, I currently have a 1972 Peugeot 531 frame as a single speed and a bike with bar end shifters that controls a friction shifted 3x9 drivetrain.
I have owned and ridden at least 30 friction shifting bikes over the last 15 years- downtube Shimano friction, downtube SunTour friction, bar end SunTour friction, SunTour thumb friction, even a couple friction stem shifters, etc. Oh, rode Genevalle shifters too for 5 years, and sometimes in 2x11 friction.


I just re-read the thread and I guess this really is a PSA? I didnt realize there was a need for such a PSA, especially since if you just google '11 speed friction shifting', you get endless info from multiple forums sites, and VeloOrange's ENE shifters are the 2nd search result. It just didnt seem to be hidden information to me, so I didnt realize a PSA was needed.

Anyways- yeah a bar end shifters and downtube shifters can shift 11 or more cogs if there is enough pull in the shift lever, but after about 10 speeds, friction becomes pretty fiddly in my experience. I cant imagine intentionally choosing friction for 11 or 12 since the spacing is so narrow. But to each their own.
Over at Path Less Pedaled: Somebody who has actually used these shifters, states that they like friction on 11 and 12 speed shifters. He states that it works smoothly.
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Old 11-27-23, 01:04 PM
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It’s hard to imagine a situation where this contraption would be the preferred option for a bike build.
Originally Posted by Rick


This is the remake of what I believe to be an older Suntour shifter. Their calling it the Command Wing Shifter.
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Old 11-27-23, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Rick
Over at Path Less Pedaled: Somebody who has actually used these shifters, states that they like friction on 11 and 12 speed shifters. He states that it works smoothly.
Cool. The hobby is made up of all sorts of folk. I am not claiming friction shifting for more than 10 cogs is ALWAYS bad for EVERYONE. I clearly said that it becomes fiddly after 10 cogs in my experience.
PLP is a great niche corner of the hobby.


Ill drop this here to blow some minds(if anyone is actually reading this thread and cares)- https://road.cc/content/tech-news/gr...-pedals-300219
Its a drop bar lever that is friction shifting using paddles and button. It can shift a dropper post too. Shifts 2 to 13 cogs. Pretty neat and very niche. If 300 of these sell in a year, it should be viewed as a wild success. Only $400+ for a pair!

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Old 11-27-23, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Rick


This is the remake of what I believe to be an older Suntour shifter. Their calling it the Command Wing Shifter.
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Since SunTour's shifters were called 'Command shifters', it makes sense that this new offering would use a similar name.
Ive read that SunTour's were indexed only, even when changed to the shown friction mode. So I guess the ENE shifters you show above would be better for you and the tens of others that need friction 12speed shifting.
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Old 11-27-23, 07:54 PM
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I am new to the forum.

You guys and gals really know how to slap and tickle'

to each their own
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Old 11-27-23, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
It’s hard to imagine a situation where this contraption would be the preferred option for a bike build.

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Old 11-27-23, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
/ Is this really just a lot of words to let others on the forum know that a handful of niche companies have limited stock of extremely niche shifting products?
o

Speaking of niche - expensive niche.

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Old 11-27-23, 08:48 PM
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It’s hard to imagine a situation where this contraption would be the preferred option for a bike build.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick

This is the remake of what I believe to be an older Suntour shifter. Their calling it the Command Wing Shifter.
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If I ever have a weak moment and get another bicycle with derailleurs, I would do a setup with these shifters. I hate plastic and work real hard to keep it off my bicycles whenever possible.
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Old 11-27-23, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Rick
If I ever have a weak moment and get another bicycle with derailleurs, I would do a setup with these shifters. I hate plastic and work real hard to keep it off my bicycles whenever possible.
There are a lot of non-plastic shifters available that I would opt for first.
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Old 11-28-23, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by ChromeChainstay
I am new to the forum.

You guys and gals really know how to slap and tickle'

to each their own
My safe word is ferrule...
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Old 11-28-23, 01:18 PM
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There are a lot of non-plastic shifters available that I would opt for first.
As would I also. But if I want integrated brake shifters , I would instead go with the non plastic friction shifter I showed. I am not against indexed systems. I don't like proprIoratory done to the level, that makes it near impossible to find replacement parts if I damage or wear something out.
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Old 11-28-23, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Rick
As would I also. But if I want integrated brake shifters , I would instead go with the non plastic friction shifter I showed.
Those aren't integrated brake shifters -- they're just shifters mounted somewhat close to the brakes.
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Old 11-28-23, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by wheelreason
My safe word is ferrule...

classiqué
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Old 11-28-23, 04:07 PM
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Those aren't integrated brake shifters -- they're just shifters mounted somewhat close to the brakes.
​​​​​​​As I stated ( I would instead go with the non plastic friction shifter I showed.)
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Old 11-28-23, 05:51 PM
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I am using a 6400 bar end set in friction mode with a 1X drivetrain, rear cassette is a 12 speed 11-34. Shifting is very good through all 12 with very short lever travel to make the shift. If I raced or did a lot of climbing, where quick, precise shifting is a real plus, I would prefer my bike with STI levers.
The main reason I am using friction for the 12 speed is not having to purchase a 12 speed lever and rear derailleur. I can also switch from 10-11-12 speed with changing only the cassette. I am using a 6500 short cage with the set up. Friction is very forgiving and works great for many uses, but not all.
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Old 11-28-23, 09:42 PM
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I used 11 speed thumb shifters on the mountain bike before my current bike. I loved them. I had 10 speed bar-end shifters on a gravel bike a few years ago that shifted excellent but I’d hit them with my leg occasionally.

I kept both in index mode. Once you start adding more speeds, it gets tricky to be precise enough to hit the right gear. I like the old skool stuff but it’s not really better, just fun.

To me it’s an option when I’m doing a frankenbuild, but I would never switch a well functioning new or newish system just for lever shifters.
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Old 11-29-23, 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Rick
As I stated ( I would instead go with the non plastic friction shifter I showed.)
I’m confused, too, because I think the only shifter you showed was the metal Wing, oddly posted in reply to my Gevenalle post.
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Old 11-29-23, 06:42 AM
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Originally Posted by dedhed
Speaking of niche - expensive niche.

​​​​​​Nivex

​​​​​​https://www.renehersecycles.com/prod...s/derailleurs/
8-900$ der. is the new normal •
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Old 11-30-23, 07:59 AM
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I own and use the ENE Ciclo downtube shifters on a 2x11 system. I really don't understand why people whose only experience is 5-9 speed shifting think 11speed friction is fiddly. The cogs are so close, you are always in gear. You may not hit your exact gear. But the gear you land in is the gear it stays in. It really is nice and smooth and a lot more forgiving than most people would think.

As a bit of speculation: I think friction works so well because of all the refinements over the years necessary to make a cable indexed system work at all, let alone at the level needed for 11, 12. Those refinements present in 11 speed and higher don't exist on lower gear count systems leading to a false conjecture. That is to say that 9 speed and to some degree 10 speed, because of the pull ratio, is just too clunky for a refined, smooth, controlled, reliable friction shift. so people extrapolate this experience to 11 & 12 speed.

I mean, the level of precision necessary for a modern dumb, untrimable system to work at all was so fine, they changed the pull ratio to minimize cable induced inconststancies, & eventually ditched the cable altogether in favor of servos and stepper motors on the component itself.

Last I checked, bike operators have senses, brains to process those senses and fine motor skills to make any corrections necessary. Corrections indexed cable brifters don't allow.

Friction 11 is good.

Last edited by base2; 11-30-23 at 05:37 PM.
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Old 11-30-23, 04:46 PM
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If you're going to mention old school....
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Old 12-01-23, 10:57 AM
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8-900$ der. is the new normal •
ENE Ciclo shifters in bar end, down tube, thumb and command wing and even stem for quill stems are many times less than this.

Last edited by Rick; 12-01-23 at 10:05 PM.
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Old 12-01-23, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by ChromeChainstay
8-900$ der. is the new normal •
If I was in the market for a rear derailleur I would probably opt for something like this: Around $100
Shimano Ultegra RX RD-RX800 Derailleur | Jenson USA
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Old 12-01-23, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
It’s hard to imagine a situation where this contraption would be the preferred option for a bike build.
I ran the SunTour Commands for a decade on my Mooney. Pretty sweet. Excellent from the hoods. I couldn't down downshift from the drops but upshifting was easy. Hands never left the outer portions of the bars so shifting on iffy pavement, etc, was secure. No impact on hand positions. The issue with the Commands was that they were calibrated for the SunTour 7-speed with its change in cog spacing and never ran quite right on the uniformly spaced SRAM/Sedis FWs which became much easier to get.

If these are properly spaced for modern, available FWs and cassettes, they could be the cat's meow.

Last edited by 79pmooney; 12-01-23 at 11:52 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 12-02-23, 01:38 AM
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Command Wing Shifters
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