Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > General Cycling Discussion
Reload this Page >

Another Moto vs Bicycle cost camparison

Notices
General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

Another Moto vs Bicycle cost camparison

Old 12-01-23, 09:49 PM
  #26  
Rider. Wanderer. Creator.
 
john m flores's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 693

Bikes: Bike Friday Pocket Rocket, Cinelli Hobootleg, Zizzo Liberte

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 345 Post(s)
Liked 683 Times in 325 Posts
Originally Posted by LarrySellerz
To add context to others, this isnít in the realm of strict hard to hit tolerances
This isn't tolerances. This is design and engineering decisions regarding the size and placement of components
john m flores is offline  
Likes For john m flores:
Old 12-01-23, 09:52 PM
  #27  
Senior Member
 
big john's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: In the foothills of Los Angeles County
Posts: 24,915
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8080 Post(s)
Liked 8,691 Times in 4,322 Posts
Originally Posted by DangerousDanR
I have spent the last dozen or so years designing control and sensing systems for agriculture, and both the Honda and the Yetti look so primitive it is amazing. I don't see any sensors on either the Moto or the MTB to sense the contour of the ground ahead and keep the saddle level.
The last new MX bike I had was a 1984 YZ490 2 stroke. Now, the 4 strokes are lighter than the 2 strokes we rode and they have electric start!

And modern mountain bikes are so much better than what was available 30 years ago it's ridiculous.
big john is offline  
Old 12-01-23, 11:09 PM
  #28  
Grupetto Bob
 
rsbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Seattle-ish
Posts: 5,903

Bikes: Bikey McBike Face

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2436 Post(s)
Liked 5,232 Times in 2,736 Posts
Another Moto vs Bike Cost Comparo…If there is a God in Heaven or somewhere…..NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
__________________
Road 🚴🏾‍♂️ & Mountain 🚵🏾‍♂️







rsbob is offline  
Likes For rsbob:
Old 12-01-23, 11:19 PM
  #29  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: South Shore of Long Island
Posts: 2,726

Bikes: 2010 Carrera Volans, 2015 C-Dale Trail 2sl, 2017 Raleigh Rush Hour, 2017 Blue Proseccio, 1992 Giant Perigee, 80s Gitane Rallye Tandem

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1066 Post(s)
Liked 980 Times in 697 Posts
The MTB is ridiculously overpriced, but at this point the pricing of the top tier bikes has just gotten absurd. They're priced that way because there's enough people with disposable income willing to pay that amount, not because they're actually worth that. Can't speak to the motorcycle but with the way cars have spiked I'm surprised they're still selling that cheaply.
Russ Roth is offline  
Old 12-02-23, 05:55 AM
  #30  
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 7,780
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4054 Post(s)
Liked 4,440 Times in 2,757 Posts
Originally Posted by phughes
Not even close to emotional about this. Just that coming from someone who helped run a Honda Kawasaki Seadoo dealership for three years, your calling the Honda industrial is ridiculous. You simply didn't read what I said about materials, which is in line with your thinking. Calling the Honda agricultural because it is welded is like calling a Colnago agricultural because it uses a welded frame. I simply called out a poor description, that's all.
Well I wouldnít use ďagriculturalĒ to describe a lightweight, steel road bike frame. I was just trying to convey the completely different design challenges in making something very strong and durable vs ultra-light and efficient.

If you took that $9k moto and made everything on it as ultra-light as possible without compromising its strength and durability then the cost would go through the roof. Just like it does when you make bikes ultra-light.
PeteHski is online now  
Likes For PeteHski:
Old 12-02-23, 06:01 AM
  #31  
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 7,780
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4054 Post(s)
Liked 4,440 Times in 2,757 Posts
Originally Posted by john m flores

You are fixating on frame material and conveniently forgetting that motorcycles have motors consisting of hundreds of parts, many of which need to be constructed with tolerances measured with a micrometer.

I actually suggested that most of the cost was in the engine.
PeteHski is online now  
Old 12-02-23, 06:26 AM
  #32  
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 7,780
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4054 Post(s)
Liked 4,440 Times in 2,757 Posts
Originally Posted by Russ Roth
The MTB is ridiculously overpriced, but at this point the pricing of the top tier bikes has just gotten absurd. They're priced that way because there's enough people with disposable income willing to pay that amount, not because they're actually worth that. Can't speak to the motorcycle but with the way cars have spiked I'm surprised they're still selling that cheaply.
I totally agree they are not worth it when you can get a second or third tier version for less than half the price that weighs maybe a couple of pounds more. But there is real cost involved in making every component ultra-light. Especially when production volumes are low. I doubt the margins on these bikes are outrageous.

As an aside, top tier mtb dampers have some quite impressive engineering and technology and again making it all ultra-light and compact is inherently very expensive.
PeteHski is online now  
Likes For PeteHski:
Old 12-02-23, 06:42 AM
  #33  
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 7,780
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4054 Post(s)
Liked 4,440 Times in 2,757 Posts
Originally Posted by john m flores
This isn't tolerances. This is design and engineering decisions regarding the size and placement of components
That is really just the benefit of 3D CAD modelling, which is nothing special these days. I am just about old enough (55) to have been involved in automotive design during the transition from drawing board to CAD. With the introduction of CAD, packaging suddenly became a whole lot easier and more precise.
PeteHski is online now  
Old 12-02-23, 06:52 AM
  #34  
SE Wis
 
dedhed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 10,446

Bikes: '68 Raleigh Sprite, '02 Raleigh C500, '84 Raleigh Gran Prix, '91 Trek 400, 2013 Novara Randonee, 1990 Trek 970

Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2700 Post(s)
Liked 3,303 Times in 2,007 Posts
Agricultural.
​​​​​​
dedhed is offline  
Old 12-02-23, 08:00 AM
  #35  
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mississauga/Toronto, Ontario canada
Posts: 8,721

Bikes: I have 3 singlespeed/fixed gear bikes

Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4227 Post(s)
Liked 2,482 Times in 1,284 Posts
Originally Posted by PeteHski
I actually suggested that most of the cost was in the engine.
What about the cost of suspension, fuel system, ignition system and electrical hardware ?
wolfchild is offline  
Likes For wolfchild:
Old 12-02-23, 08:02 AM
  #36  
Advanced Slacker
 
Kapusta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 6,175

Bikes: Soma Fog Cutter, Surly Wednesday, Canfielld Tilt

Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2745 Post(s)
Liked 2,508 Times in 1,419 Posts
Did not read this whole thread, but one factor is the rapid pace of change and development in MTBs vs moto. It is relentless and very fast in the mtb world. If you are not completely redesigning and making major changes, in 5 years you will have an obsolete line that you will be lucky to give away.

iím not talking about subtle changes either. Even a beginner rider will notice a night and day difference between MTBs made 10 years apart. This has been true for 30 years.

But the real issue with the OPís comprison is that you are talking about an elite pro-level mtb vs a good but not elite level moto. That $9k mtb is an outlier. I am a very experienced and longtime mountain biker who is willing to spend money on the sport and has a taste for the better things. I ride with many people like me. None of us are riding $9K mtbs. I am pretty much riding the bike of my dreams right now, and even during the height of Covid prices, I paid around $6K to build it. Right now (post COVID prices) it wouldíve cost me well under $5K.

A friend of mine just picked up a brand new Ibis Ripmo AF SLX for around $3K. I rented one of these for three days, and honestly, itís 90% of what a $6000 bike is.
Kapusta is offline  
Likes For Kapusta:
Old 12-02-23, 08:21 AM
  #37  
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 7,780
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4054 Post(s)
Liked 4,440 Times in 2,757 Posts
Originally Posted by wolfchild
What about the cost of suspension, fuel system, ignition system and electrical hardware ?
Engines cost more to design, develop and manufacture than suspension hardware etc.
PeteHski is online now  
Old 12-02-23, 08:21 AM
  #38  
Rider. Wanderer. Creator.
 
john m flores's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 693

Bikes: Bike Friday Pocket Rocket, Cinelli Hobootleg, Zizzo Liberte

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 345 Post(s)
Liked 683 Times in 325 Posts
Originally Posted by PeteHski
That is really just the benefit of 3D CAD modelling, which is nothing special these days. I am just about old enough (55) to have been involved in automotive design during the transition from drawing board to CAD. With the introduction of CAD, packaging suddenly became a whole lot easier and more precise.
Doesn't CAD make the design of CF bicycle frames easy too?
john m flores is offline  
Old 12-02-23, 08:30 AM
  #39  
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 7,780
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4054 Post(s)
Liked 4,440 Times in 2,757 Posts
Originally Posted by john m flores
Doesn't CAD make the design of CF bicycle frames easy too?
Of course it makes design easier. I was just pointing out that itís nothing special to engineer components to 1 mm accuracy in their placement etc.
PeteHski is online now  
Old 12-02-23, 08:46 AM
  #40  
Rider. Wanderer. Creator.
 
john m flores's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 693

Bikes: Bike Friday Pocket Rocket, Cinelli Hobootleg, Zizzo Liberte

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 345 Post(s)
Liked 683 Times in 325 Posts
Originally Posted by PeteHski
Of course it makes design easier. I was just pointing out that itís nothing special to engineer components to 1 mm accuracy in their placement etc.
So what's so difficult about designing and producing a CF frame these days that warrants the costs?

My point is that for any product category, there comes a price point where the price is not in direct relation to the cost of manufacture but rather perceived value. A $9,000 bicycle is not 3 times better than a $3,000 bicycle, and the manufacturer likely has a much greater profit margin on the $9,000 bike so they use all the persuasive tactics available to them to make it desirable.
john m flores is offline  
Old 12-02-23, 09:11 AM
  #41  
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 7,780
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4054 Post(s)
Liked 4,440 Times in 2,757 Posts
Originally Posted by john m flores
So what's so difficult about designing and producing a CF frame these days that warrants the costs?

My point is that for any product category, there comes a price point where the price is not in direct relation to the cost of manufacture but rather perceived value. A $9,000 bicycle is not 3 times better than a $3,000 bicycle, and the manufacturer likely has a much greater profit margin on the $9,000 bike so they use all the persuasive tactics available to them to make it desirable.
CF manufacture at the highest level is still a relatively expensive process. If it was cheap to design and manufacture in CF there would be a lot more of it used in for example mainstream car production. Or even mainstream bikes for that matter.

Of course there are diminishing returns on performance of high end products, which especially applies to bikes. How much did Specialized spend on developing their Aethos frame to save maybe 200g? But I wouldnít necessarily equate diminishing performance returns with increased profit margins.

I donít actually know what the profit margin is for a $9k bike vs a $4k version of the same bike, but they will have a lot of shared development costs.
PeteHski is online now  
Old 12-02-23, 11:03 AM
  #42  
Senior Member
 
Yan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,793
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1740 Post(s)
Liked 517 Times in 365 Posts
Originally Posted by PeteHski
I do actually appreciate all this, but my point here is simply that carbon frames are inherently much more expensive than fabricated alloy frames. Letís say the Moto guys figured out how to make an effective carbon frame. Then the bikes would suddenly become a lot more expensive. The fact that an alloy frame is their optimum solution keeps the cost down - especially at the consumer level.
Sorry to burst your bubble but your S-works frame was made in an Asian factory for under $300 actual cost to Specialized. Their high end models are made in Taiwan by Merida, with a Specialized logo slapped on. Their low end models are made in China.

The $9000 bike in fact cost the dealer only $5000 to buy from the brand. $4000 of your money evaporated straight into the bike shop markup. That's the end of your five-figure carbon marvel fantasy right there.

Out of the $5000 Specialized gets, the majority goes to areas that have zero to do with the bike itself. A chunk goes into shareholder pockets as profit. Another chunk goes into marketing, including pro tour sponsorships. Another chunk goes into business overhead, managers, lawyers, accountants, customer service, distribution. By the time you get down to engineering and manufacturing, you're already scraping the bottom.

And bike brands don't even make the drivetrain themselves. They buy from Shimano and SRAM and only do a bolt on job.

The entire industry is merely a chain of middlemen that takes the equivalent of a $600 retail AliExpress Chinese carbon frame and inflates it to 10x the price. Sure the S-works frame will be better. But how much better? It's not 10x better and it didn't cost 10x more to produce. You're paying 10x the price for emotional benefits. Since these are all actually made by Merida, you might as well save some money, buy a Merida and be done with it.

No doubt the Specialized designers need to get paid. But exactly what can a Californian designer do that a Taiwanese designer can't, that makes the Californian designer deserve multiple times the salary? Nothing. The Taiwanese designer is just as good as the Californian designer, if not better. Most of the world's bikes are made in Taiwan.

Last edited by Yan; 12-02-23 at 11:15 AM.
Yan is offline  
Old 12-02-23, 11:36 AM
  #43  
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 7,780
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4054 Post(s)
Liked 4,440 Times in 2,757 Posts
Originally Posted by Yan
Sorry to burst your bubble but your S-works frame was made in an Asian factory for under $300 actual cost to Specialized. Their high end models are made in Taiwan by Merida, with a Specialized logo slapped on. Their low end models are made in China.

The $9000 bike in fact cost the dealer only $5000 to buy from the brand. $4000 of your money evaporated straight into the bike shop markup. That's the end of your five-figure carbon marvel fantasy right there.

Out of the $5000 Specialized gets, the majority goes to areas that have zero to do with the bike itself. A chunk goes into shareholder pockets as profit. Another chunk goes into marketing, including pro tour sponsorships. Another chunk goes into business overhead, managers, lawyers, accountants, customer service, distribution. By the time you get down to engineering and manufacturing, you're already scraping the bottom.

And bike brands don't even make the drivetrain themselves. They buy from Shimano and SRAM and only do a bolt on job.

The entire industry is merely a chain of middlemen that takes the equivalent of a $600 retail AliExpress Chinese carbon frame and inflates it to 10x the price. Sure the S-works frame will be better. But how much better? It's not 10x better and it didn't cost 10x more to produce. You're paying 10x the price for emotional benefits. Since these are all actually made by Merida, you might as well save some money, buy a Merida and be done with it.

No doubt the Specialized designers need to get paid. But exactly what can a Californian designer do that a Taiwanese designer can't, that makes the Californian designer deserve multiple times the salary? Nothing. The Taiwanese designer is just as good as the Californian designer, if not better. Most of the world's bikes are made in Taiwan.
So are Honda exempt from all these obvious overheads then?

I don't own an S-Works bike either. I don't think the marginal gains are worth it. But as an engineer I do have respect for those who design and develop high end products. It ultimately benefits the lower tier, higher volume versions of those products.
PeteHski is online now  
Old 12-02-23, 11:52 AM
  #44  
Senior Member
 
Yan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,793
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1740 Post(s)
Liked 517 Times in 365 Posts
Originally Posted by PeteHski
So are Honda exempt from all these obvious overheads then?

I don't own an S-Works bike either. I don't think the marginal gains are worth it. But as an engineer I do have respect for those who design and develop high end products. It ultimately benefits the lower tier, higher volume versions of those products.
I can't say about Honda's overhead but I can confidently say that Honda isn't sourcing a product for $300 from Taiwan and selling it for $5000 (like Specialized is with their frames).

Because believe it or not, no matter how much scale they have and how "agricultural" their product is, Honda cannot manufacture an internal combustion engined motorcycle for $300. Nobody can.

That just about sums it up doesn't it? What else do you need to know? End of story.

And can we talk about the Shimano and SRAM groupsets that cost $3000? They charge the maximum they can get away with. It has nothing to do with their production costs. Same story all around.

Last edited by Yan; 12-02-23 at 12:01 PM.
Yan is offline  
Old 12-02-23, 12:00 PM
  #45  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Hollister, CA (not the surf town)
Posts: 1,709

Bikes: 2019 Specialized Roubaix Comp Di2, 2009 Roubaix, early 90's Giant Iguana

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 633 Post(s)
Liked 1,461 Times in 536 Posts
Over and over, people talk about how the cost to make something doesn't justify it's price as though that is all that goes into the final product. Well, it's not. Engineering, R&D, Marketing, Quality assurance, management, accounting, liability insurance, employee benefits, etc. For a low quantity product, these costs can add up to a whole lot more than the material costs.

I spent my career, working with semiconductor manufacturing equipment. Also highly specialized and low volume. One company I worked for made a tool for rinsing and drying silicon wafers. It was a very simple tool; basically you put a carrier of wafers into a basket in the machine, close the door and it spun the carrier, while spraying the product with deionized water to rinse and then heated nitrogen to dry. Since not contaminating the product was critical, all the materials had to be high purity and a lot of engineering went into making sure that contaminants from the surrounding area could not get into the tool during processing. Still the material costs were maybe $5k and a couple k more for labor. The tool sold for 60k at that time and the company lost money most of the 9 years I was there.

Look at how many bike company's there are and how many that have high end mountain bikes and then look at the market for those high dollar machines and consider how few of them Yeti is likely to sell but the revenue from those bikes has to support an entire infrastructure. For anyone that doesn't want to pay for that, there are plenty of knock-offs on Ali Express and the like where they don't have to worry about all those other costs. Just don't complain when the frame snaps while your blasting down a single track.
Ogsarg is offline  
Likes For Ogsarg:
Old 12-02-23, 12:04 PM
  #46  
Senior Member
 
Yan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,793
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1740 Post(s)
Liked 517 Times in 365 Posts
Originally Posted by Ogsarg
Over and over, people talk about how the cost to make something doesn't justify it's price as though that is all that goes into the final product. Well, it's not. Engineering, R&D, Marketing, Quality assurance, management, accounting, liability insurance, employee benefits, etc. For a low quantity product, these costs can add up to a whole lot more than the material costs. I spent my career, working with semiconductor manufacturing equipment. Also highly specialized and low volume. One company I worked for made a tool for rinsing and drying silicon wafers. It was a very simple tool; basically you put a carrier of wafers into a basket in the machine, close the door and it spun the carrier, while spraying the product with deionized water to rinse and then heated nitrogen to dry. Since not contaminating the product was critical, all the materials had to be high purity and a lot of engineering went into making sure that contaminants from the surrounding area could not get into the tool during processing. Still the material costs were maybe $5k and a couple k more for labor. The tool sold for 60k at that time and the company lost money most of the 9 years I was there. Look at how many bike company's there are and how many that have high end mountain bikes and then look at the market for those high dollar machines and consider how few of them Yeti is likely to sell but the revenue from those bikes has to support an entire infrastructure. For anyone that doesn't want to pay for that, there are plenty of knock-offs on Ali Express and the like where they don't have to worry about all those other costs. Just don't complain when the frame snaps while your blasting down a single track.
That's all very good, but did your semiconductor company sell a second tier of tool that was 99% identical and exactly the same cost to make, but priced at $30k for the purpose of artificial product segmentation and extracting maximum profits from every social class of customer?

These "knock-off" dismissals always make me laugh. When 99.5% of carbon frames are made in Asia, one really has to wonder who is knocking off who.

​​​​​

Last edited by Yan; 12-02-23 at 12:12 PM.
Yan is offline  
Old 12-02-23, 12:17 PM
  #47  
Senior Member
 
phughes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,011
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1005 Post(s)
Liked 1,218 Times in 704 Posts
Originally Posted by PeteHski
Well I wouldnít use ďagriculturalĒ to describe a lightweight, steel road bike frame. I was just trying to convey the completely different design challenges in making something very strong and durable vs ultra-light and efficient.

If you took that $9k moto and made everything on it as ultra-light as possible without compromising its strength and durability then the cost would go through the roof. Just like it does when you make bikes ultra-light.
Oh my lord. You are arguing for absolutely no reason. Well, actually there is a reason. You didn't actually read what I wrote. I stated there is a difference in frame materials. I also understand a mountain bike like that actually will cost a lot of money, but it isn't because the motorcycle is agricultural.You obviously have no clue the amount to R&D that goes into a motorcycle frame. Man, step back and actually read and comprehend what people write.

Anyway Bike Forums, welcome to Winter.


phughes is offline  
Old 12-02-23, 12:18 PM
  #48  
Senior Member
 
phughes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,011
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1005 Post(s)
Liked 1,218 Times in 704 Posts
Originally Posted by PeteHski
Engines cost more to design, develop and manufacture than suspension hardware etc.
You have absolutely no clue. Stop while you're behind.
phughes is offline  
Old 12-02-23, 12:35 PM
  #49  
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 7,780
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4054 Post(s)
Liked 4,440 Times in 2,757 Posts
Originally Posted by phughes
You have absolutely no clue. Stop while you're behind.
Well I can only go off my own experience of chassis vs engine development costs. If you have some data showing that development and production costs of fabricated bike frames and suspension costs more than developing and producing an engine then enlighten me please.

In my own field of high-end motorsport, engine development costs dwarf everything else put together by a huge margin.
PeteHski is online now  
Old 12-02-23, 12:40 PM
  #50  
Senior Member
 
phughes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,011
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1005 Post(s)
Liked 1,218 Times in 704 Posts
Originally Posted by PeteHski
Well I can only go off my own experience of chassis vs engine development costs. If you have some data showing that development and production costs of fabricated bike frames and suspension costs more than developing and producing an engine then enlighten me please.

In my own field of high-end motorsport, engine development costs dwarf everything else put together by a huge margin.
phughes is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.