Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > General Cycling Discussion
Reload this Page >

Bad experience with REI/co-op cycles

Notices
General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

Bad experience with REI/co-op cycles

Old 12-08-23, 10:29 AM
  #51  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 7,670
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6817 Post(s)
Liked 10,736 Times in 4,589 Posts
Originally Posted by Trakhak
Probably posting on another forum: "Bad Experience on BikeForums."
You just took this meta.
Koyote is offline  
Likes For Koyote:
Old 12-08-23, 10:57 AM
  #52  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,644
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 441 Post(s)
Liked 512 Times in 306 Posts
Are you friends with the "taped my bike" guy?....
wheelreason is offline  
Likes For wheelreason:
Old 12-08-23, 11:12 AM
  #53  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,005
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 474 Post(s)
Liked 539 Times in 310 Posts
OP: I hade a terrible experience at REI (*proceeds to spout BS while avoiding the correct and obvious action*)
BF: Nah.... no ya didn't
CrimsonEclipse is offline  
Likes For CrimsonEclipse:
Old 12-08-23, 11:43 AM
  #54  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 824
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 470 Post(s)
Liked 329 Times in 257 Posts
The most bizarre thread… but to be fair, I haven’t read all threads here! 😉
Alan K is offline  
Old 12-08-23, 07:22 PM
  #55  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,644
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 441 Post(s)
Liked 512 Times in 306 Posts
Originally Posted by Alan K
The most bizarre thread… but to be fair, I haven’t read all threads here! 😉
Larry: "Hold my beer"...
wheelreason is offline  
Old 12-08-23, 09:03 PM
  #56  
Clark W. Griswold
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: ,location, location
Posts: 13,109

Bikes: Foundry Chilkoot Ti W/Ultegra Di2, Salsa Timberjack Ti, Cinelli Mash Work RandoCross Fun Time Machine, 1x9 XT Parts Hybrid, Co-Motion Cascadia, Specialized Langster, Phil Wood Apple VeloXS Frame (w/DA 7400), R+M Supercharger2 Rohloff, Habanero Ti 26

Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4182 Post(s)
Liked 3,764 Times in 2,513 Posts
Originally Posted by dedhed
All well & good, but REI is a completely different business model than an LBS, with bikes being only a small part of most stores,
Yes and No the bike shop is still relatively a bike shop or at least enough of one to get the correct hanger for bikes they sell. I know they are different I worked for a local chain years ago that was nearly the same but the fact still does remain if you go back to the place that sold you the brand new bike and chances are reasonably higher that they can get a part for it or can help in some way or can take a return on the bike.
veganbikes is offline  
Old 12-08-23, 09:33 PM
  #57  
SE Wis
 
dedhed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 10,449

Bikes: '68 Raleigh Sprite, '02 Raleigh C500, '84 Raleigh Gran Prix, '91 Trek 400, 2013 Novara Randonee, 1990 Trek 970

Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2701 Post(s)
Liked 3,303 Times in 2,007 Posts
Originally Posted by veganbikes
Yes and No the bike shop is still relatively a bike shop or at least enough of one to get the correct hanger for bikes they sell. I know they are different I worked for a local chain years ago that was nearly the same but the fact still does remain if you go back to the place that sold you the brand new bike and chances are reasonably higher that they can get a part for it or can help in some way or can take a return on the bike.
My comment was more related to this paragraph and LBS time/profit/sales. While REI cares about bike sales Id venture is not most branches volume profit area.

Complaints about bike shops are usually pretty unwarranted without their side of the story but when I here this story it throws up red flags of a difficult customer. We cannot always spend hours with you while you hem and haw about the cheaper bikes. We get in trouble for talking and talking to people who are clearly not interested and taking up our time that could be spent on other important tasks or we miss opportunities for actual paying customers who may walk out while we spend all that time with someone. Customer service is important but time wasters aren't. If we are building a custom bike and spending time on that it is one thing or actually picking out accessories and getting the bike outfitted for what you are doing that is another but just going back and forth on two similar low initial cost bikes just doesn't make sense to anyone. You may think you are the most important person and while for a time that could be quite true after a while when we have given you all the information and opportunity to test ride it is time for us to break off to get back to work. A lot of times people come in and won't listen to advice and don't really care what you have to say but they want to go back and forth with you to buy the wrong bike for their usage and just take up as much time and spend as little money as they can and then when the boss is looking at the numbers for the week they question you why you aren't making money.

Without a doubt REI should, and I expect could, get them the correct hanger relatively easy and quick. ​​​​​​
dedhed is offline  
Old 12-08-23, 09:55 PM
  #58  
Sunshine
 
mstateglfr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 16,429

Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo

Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10819 Post(s)
Liked 7,291 Times in 4,089 Posts
Originally Posted by Russ Roth
op, rei used to be rebadged cannondales, i think most still are.
I have never heard this before. Like ever.

What time frame were Novara bikes simple rebadged Cannondale bikes?

I have had 4 Novara bikes pass thru my garage over the years- 1 steel road from '89, 1 aluminum road from the 90s, 1 steel mtb from the 90s, and 1 aluminum mtb from the 00s. All were built in Asia.
The 90s steel mtb was an exact copy of a Diamondback from the time when WSI still owned Diamondback.
And the '89 steel road frame is actually still with me, its my zwift bike and is a Tange 1 tube frame that was contract built maybe Tano.

Don't think I've seen a US built Novara bike(since Cannondale built in the US until a decade ago).
Can't say I've seen any Novara bikes thru the years with a lefty fork or that headtube shock thing Cannondale did.

Super curious to hear when Novara bikes were rebadged Cannondale bikes. And along those lines, what are the models they currently have thar are rebadged Cannondale bikes?
mstateglfr is online now  
Old 12-08-23, 10:02 PM
  #59  
Senior Member
 
Trakhak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 5,192
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2342 Post(s)
Liked 2,766 Times in 1,581 Posts
Originally Posted by mstateglfr
I have never heard this before. Like ever.

What time frame were Novara bikes simple rebadged Cannondale bikes?

I have had 4 Novara bikes pass thru my garage over the years- 1 steel road from '89, 1 aluminum road from the 90s, 1 steel mtb from the 90s, and 1 aluminum mtb from the 00s. All were built in Asia.
The 90s steel mtb was an exact copy of a Diamondback from the time when WSI still owned Diamondback.
And the '89 steel road frame is actually still with me, its my zwift bike and is a Tange 1 tube frame that was contract built maybe Tano.

Don't think I've seen a US built Novara bike(since Cannondale built in the US until a decade ago).
Can't say I've seen any Novara bikes thru the years with a lefty fork or that headtube shock thing Cannondale did.

Super curious to hear when Novara bikes were rebadged Cannondale bikes. And along those lines, what are the models they currently have thar are rebadged Cannondale bikes?
L.L. Bean bikes were rebadged Cannondales. Never heard that Novara bikes were.
Trakhak is offline  
Old 12-08-23, 10:07 PM
  #60  
Sunshine
 
mstateglfr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 16,429

Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo

Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10819 Post(s)
Liked 7,291 Times in 4,089 Posts
Originally Posted by Trakhak
L.L. Bean bikes were rebadged Cannondales. Never heard that Novara bikes were.
Oh yeah those were for sure rebadged Cannondale bikes. Straight mirror image rebadging.
mstateglfr is online now  
Old 12-08-23, 10:25 PM
  #61  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: South Shore of Long Island
Posts: 2,729

Bikes: 2010 Carrera Volans, 2015 C-Dale Trail 2sl, 2017 Raleigh Rush Hour, 2017 Blue Proseccio, 1992 Giant Perigee, 80s Gitane Rallye Tandem

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1066 Post(s)
Liked 980 Times in 697 Posts
Originally Posted by mstateglfr
I have never heard this before. Like ever.

What time frame were Novara bikes simple rebadged Cannondale bikes?

I have had 4 Novara bikes pass thru my garage over the years- 1 steel road from '89, 1 aluminum road from the 90s, 1 steel mtb from the 90s, and 1 aluminum mtb from the 00s. All were built in Asia.
The 90s steel mtb was an exact copy of a Diamondback from the time when WSI still owned Diamondback.
And the '89 steel road frame is actually still with me, its my zwift bike and is a Tange 1 tube frame that was contract built maybe Tano.

Don't think I've seen a US built Novara bike(since Cannondale built in the US until a decade ago).
Can't say I've seen any Novara bikes thru the years with a lefty fork or that headtube shock thing Cannondale did.

Super curious to hear when Novara bikes were rebadged Cannondale bikes. And along those lines, what are the models they currently have thar are rebadged Cannondale bikes?
No clue on Novara, not even aware of the label, wasn't an REI shopper then, just the co-ops but those have been around for a while now. Which is the only point pertinent to someone looking for a replacement hanger for their broken Co-op bike.
Russ Roth is online now  
Old 12-08-23, 10:37 PM
  #62  
Sunshine
 
mstateglfr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 16,429

Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo

Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10819 Post(s)
Liked 7,291 Times in 4,089 Posts
Originally Posted by Russ Roth
No clue on Novara, not even aware of the label, wasn't an REI shopper then, just the co-ops but those have been around for a while now. Which is the only point pertinent to someone looking for a replacement hanger for their broken Co-op bike.
I mentioned Novara because I figured you were recalling some point in time in the distant past when your claim could have been correct.

Since you were referring to bikes in the last 7 years, due to thats when REI changed their brand name from Novara to CO-OP, what CO-OP models are rebadged Cannondale bikes?
The CO-OP full suspension is so different that the linkage is in a totally different part of the main triangle.
CO-OP touring bikes are steel frame, so those clearly aren't what you are referring to.
CO-OP adventure bikes are nothing like Topstone bikes in tube shapes and geometry.
mstateglfr is online now  
Old 12-08-23, 11:03 PM
  #63  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: South Shore of Long Island
Posts: 2,729

Bikes: 2010 Carrera Volans, 2015 C-Dale Trail 2sl, 2017 Raleigh Rush Hour, 2017 Blue Proseccio, 1992 Giant Perigee, 80s Gitane Rallye Tandem

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1066 Post(s)
Liked 980 Times in 697 Posts
Originally Posted by mstateglfr
I mentioned Novara because I figured you were recalling some point in time in the distant past when your claim could have been correct.

Since you were referring to bikes in the last 7 years, due to thats when REI changed their brand name from Novara to CO-OP, what CO-OP models are rebadged Cannondale bikes?
The CO-OP full suspension is so different that the linkage is in a totally different part of the main triangle.
CO-OP touring bikes are steel frame, so those clearly aren't what you are referring to.
CO-OP adventure bikes are nothing like Topstone bikes in tube shapes and geometry.
Just reiterating what the REI salesperson was telling me, that the co-ops were C-dale. I wouldn't assume that means they just slapped their label on a current model and called it a day. The kids bikes sitting next to each other looked fairly similar as did the hybrids. Considering C-dale is part of a conglomerate that includes multiple other brands I had no reason to doubt him.
Russ Roth is online now  
Old 12-08-23, 11:50 PM
  #64  
Grupetto Bob
 
rsbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Seattle-ish
Posts: 5,924

Bikes: Bikey McBike Face

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2447 Post(s)
Liked 5,255 Times in 2,744 Posts
Originally Posted by mrbrian1969
No, no suicide derailleur hanger bomb attack. Just run the mill small stick like our litter all over the bike Lanes around here, and Mike has got caught in the spokes of my old Cannondale many times one time of which meant the trailer, zero times of whichever bent the integral derailleur hanger which everyone says would have been destroyed, ruining the bike. A new derailleur I can get for under $20, a new derailleur hanger seems like it would require an act of God
If I was the manager at REI and heard this for 2 hours, I would have taken a break too by heading to a local bar for a few shots. Got Adderall?
__________________
Road 🚴🏾‍♂️ & Mountain 🚵🏾‍♂️







rsbob is offline  
Likes For rsbob:
Old 12-09-23, 06:10 AM
  #65  
SE Wis
 
dedhed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 10,449

Bikes: '68 Raleigh Sprite, '02 Raleigh C500, '84 Raleigh Gran Prix, '91 Trek 400, 2013 Novara Randonee, 1990 Trek 970

Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2701 Post(s)
Liked 3,303 Times in 2,007 Posts
Originally Posted by mstateglfr
I have never heard this before. Like ever.

What time frame were Novara bikes simple rebadged Cannondale bikes?

I have had 4 Novara bikes pass thru my garage over the years- 1 steel road from '89, 1 aluminum road from the 90s, 1 steel mtb from the 90s, and 1 aluminum mtb from the 00s. All were built in Asia.
The 90s steel mtb was an exact copy of a Diamondback from the time when WSI still owned Diamondback.
And the '89 steel road frame is actually still with me, its my zwift bike and is a Tange 1 tube frame that was contract built maybe Tano.

Don't think I've seen a US built Novara bike(since Cannondale built in the US until a decade ago).
Can't say I've seen any Novara bikes thru the years with a lefty fork or that headtube shock thing Cannondale did.

Super curious to hear when Novara bikes were rebadged Cannondale bikes. And along those lines, what are the models they currently have thar are rebadged Cannondale bikes?
​​​​​​Asian Serial Number Guide
dedhed is offline  
Old 12-09-23, 06:56 AM
  #66  
Happy With My Bikes
 
Chuck M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 2,137

Bikes: Hi-Ten bike boomers, a Trek Domane and some projects

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 847 Post(s)
Liked 2,220 Times in 1,075 Posts
I've never set foot in or ordered anything online from REI. But even I knew before reading this thread that REI has a return policy that should have made the OP happy. After three pages of people explaining this to the OP, they should know that too.
__________________
"It is the unknown around the corner that turns my wheels." -- Heinz Stücke

Chuck M is online now  
Likes For Chuck M:
Old 12-09-23, 07:18 AM
  #67  
Expired Member
 
shelbyfv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: TN
Posts: 11,423
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3626 Post(s)
Liked 5,286 Times in 2,685 Posts
Yep. Early on OP was given the only advice he needed, contact REI. Over three pages OP has not explained why this was not done. Regardless of OP's motivation for starting this thread, it's past time for a lock.
shelbyfv is offline  
Likes For shelbyfv:
Old 12-09-23, 09:01 AM
  #68  
Sunshine
 
mstateglfr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 16,429

Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo

Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10819 Post(s)
Liked 7,291 Times in 4,089 Posts
Originally Posted by dedhed
​​​​​​Asian Serial Number Guide
yes, referenced that thread many times.
...not sure why it was linked.
mstateglfr is online now  
Old 12-09-23, 02:32 PM
  #69  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Walnut Creek, CA
Posts: 747

Bikes: 1969 Peugeot PX10, 1992 Della Santa, Linus Roadster 8, Biria 700C ST-8

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 781 Post(s)
Liked 492 Times in 311 Posts
Can we just stop this thread. The OP obviously was more interested in flogging his hurt feelings than ever actually getting a fix. My suggestion to him is to go on the internet and buy a new bike. I think the one you have is dangerous, at least really or in your fevered mind.
Joe Bikerider is offline  
Likes For Joe Bikerider:
Old 12-09-23, 07:31 PM
  #70  
Clark W. Griswold
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: ,location, location
Posts: 13,109

Bikes: Foundry Chilkoot Ti W/Ultegra Di2, Salsa Timberjack Ti, Cinelli Mash Work RandoCross Fun Time Machine, 1x9 XT Parts Hybrid, Co-Motion Cascadia, Specialized Langster, Phil Wood Apple VeloXS Frame (w/DA 7400), R+M Supercharger2 Rohloff, Habanero Ti 26

Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4182 Post(s)
Liked 3,764 Times in 2,513 Posts
Originally Posted by dedhed
My comment was more related to this paragraph and LBS time/profit/sales. While REI cares about bike sales Id venture is not most branches volume profit area.

Complaints about bike shops are usually pretty unwarranted without their side of the story but when I here this story it throws up red flags of a difficult customer. We cannot always spend hours with you while you hem and haw about the cheaper bikes. We get in trouble for talking and talking to people who are clearly not interested and taking up our time that could be spent on other important tasks or we miss opportunities for actual paying customers who may walk out while we spend all that time with someone. Customer service is important but time wasters aren't. If we are building a custom bike and spending time on that it is one thing or actually picking out accessories and getting the bike outfitted for what you are doing that is another but just going back and forth on two similar low initial cost bikes just doesn't make sense to anyone. You may think you are the most important person and while for a time that could be quite true after a while when we have given you all the information and opportunity to test ride it is time for us to break off to get back to work. A lot of times people come in and won't listen to advice and don't really care what you have to say but they want to go back and forth with you to buy the wrong bike for their usage and just take up as much time and spend as little money as they can and then when the boss is looking at the numbers for the week they question you why you aren't making money.

Without a doubt REI should, and I expect could, get them the correct hanger relatively easy and quick. ​​​​​​
Ahhh gotcha, still though time wasting is big for any retail business but especially speciality outdoor. Even if bike sales are not their focus and main goal having an employee spend hours with a single customer to come out with the bottom end of the bikes and there was no need for them to be involved beyond about 10 minutes is pretty bad anywhere. It is like going into a high end jewelry store and spending hours and hours and then leaving with a ring pop.
veganbikes is offline  
Old 12-11-23, 08:42 AM
  #71  
Senior Member
 
'02 nrs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: se MIch.
Posts: 2,839

Bikes: 1938 claud butler,1983 Basso,teledyne titan,teocali super,nrs,1993 stumpjumper fsr,Paramountain,Paramount Buell(sold),4 banger,Zaskar LE,Colnago Master Ibex MTB,1987ish,.etc....

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 747 Post(s)
Liked 2,764 Times in 1,415 Posts
Originally Posted by veganbikes
Ahhh gotcha, still though time wasting is big for any retail business but especially speciality outdoor. Even if bike sales are not their focus and main goal having an employee spend hours with a single customer to come out with the bottom end of the bikes and there was no need for them to be involved beyond about 10 minutes is pretty bad anywhere. It is like going into a high end jewelry store and spending hours and hours and then leaving with a ring pop.
generally speaking or REI fact?
'02 nrs is offline  
Old 12-11-23, 10:51 AM
  #72  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,644
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 441 Post(s)
Liked 512 Times in 306 Posts
Originally Posted by '02 nrs
generally speaking or REI fact?
It's everywhere, of course you have to pander to "good customer service, the customer is always right" thing, but ultimately, the sales folks' job is to sell stuff. Some of the newer, inexperienced (and enthusiast) sales force forget that fact sometimes.
wheelreason is offline  
Old 12-12-23, 11:04 AM
  #73  
Senior Member
 
trailangel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Pasadena, CA
Posts: 4,847

Bikes: Schwinn Varsity

Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1931 Post(s)
Liked 741 Times in 421 Posts
Originally Posted by njkayaker
This seems dubious.


It might be helpful to you to provide more detail here.

This is for a City 1.1 from 2017-2020. There's a reasonable chance your bike uses the same hanger.

https://derailleurhanger.com/manufac...ty-1-12017-20/

https://wheelsmfg.com/derailleur-han...hanger-38.html
I don't know what the OP's problem is here. OMG! Hanger shattered! I don't think so. Even if it did and there ain't nothing left...... Go look at another Cty 1.1 bike and verify what hanger it has. Like you and another poster, and myself have found the hanger is 30 seconds on the internet.
REI bike shop has always been good.

trailangel is offline  
Old 12-12-23, 11:44 AM
  #74  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Far beyond the pale horizon.
Posts: 14,215
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4199 Post(s)
Liked 1,297 Times in 899 Posts
Originally Posted by trailangel
I don't know what the OP's problem is here. OMG! Hanger shattered! I don't think so. Even if it did and there ain't nothing left...... Go look at another Cty 1.1 bike and verify what hanger it has. Like you and another poster, and myself have found the hanger is 30 seconds on the internet.
REI bike shop has always been good.

It seems like they changed to a different hanger.
njkayaker is offline  
Old 12-13-23, 08:42 AM
  #75  
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Posts: 24,282
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 3,593 Times in 2,455 Posts
OP, go to REI with your bike. They will fix it or take it as a return. Problem solved. I think if you just wanted to give REI negative advertising, you may have done the opposite.

Thread closed for moderator review. OP, don't start another thread about this or it will just be deleted.
unterhausen is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.