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What scares me about Canyon

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What scares me about Canyon

Old 01-17-24, 08:22 PM
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Country availability is not a problem for me as I can take delivery in Europe, but Canyon is a total dead end because their bikes cannot be fitted.

Take the Aeroad for example. The CP0018 integrated bars, what your bike came with is what you must ride. If you need a different stem length, too bad. They don't sell them. Not in Europe, not in America. You can't buy a different one, period. They used to be available, but not anymore as of 2024. Will they be available in the future? Maybe, maybe not. Good luck.

This isn't a problem of spare parts. Even if the bike is completely new, if I can't fit it, then it is unridable and just gathering dust in a corner. A bike that cannot be fitted is worse than trash.

That's Canyon's business model. By only offering one fixed specification with no option for customization, they save cost. They use low cost to lure unsophisticated customers who don't know any better. Their unsophisticated customers have never heard of the concept of fit, so they don't realize what they are missing by going for the bargain option.

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Old 01-17-24, 09:06 PM
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Couple years back I was in the market for a couple new bikes, both gravel and MTB. I read enough threads like this that I decided that I wouldn’t buy anything with any proprietary parts, and needed a threaded bottom bracket too.

I want to work on my stuff in my garage with the tools I already have.

Retrogrouch or smart, I don’t know. I just know that bikes sometimes last a really long time, I’d rather not be concerned with getting parts for them in the future.

To the OP, a decent workaround might be to get a breakaway derailleur bolt. In theory it should break before bending your hanger. They aren’t expensive. I can’t say that I’ve ever used one though. You might just end up with a broken bolt and bent hanger.

One could hypothesize that if they were effective, they’d be standard and hangers would be built in. One could also be cynical and call it a profit motive.
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Old 01-17-24, 09:28 PM
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Great looking bikes, what appears to be a good bang for the buck & great reviews, but I’m not going to lie, my reason I chose to shy away is the direct purchase, which of course I realize is in direct correlation to the price.

The thought of hopefully having a LBS in my corner if I have an issue seems to be a great piece of insurance in my mind.
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Old 01-17-24, 09:41 PM
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The whole point of cutting out your local bike shop is you are losing all the support but you are getting a initially cheaper bike. When you buy a bike that uses a lot of proprietary parts that nobody else makes parts for you are making the choice to be stuck with that manufacturer.

In the end you have a fine bike and hopefully you won't need those parts but if you do at the very least Wheels Manufacturing has a hanger that should work fine: https://wheelsmfg.com/derailleur-hanger-407.html
It is a quality product made in the U.S. and your local shop can easily order one and help you install it and make sure it is properly aligned to your frame. Wheels generally makes hangers for a wide range of bikes from a wide range of years. So you aren't stuck with trying to find OEM hangers at least. They also make excellent bottom brackets, tools and a single speed kit for XD hubs.
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Old 01-17-24, 10:15 PM
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Same thing scares me about modern Bianchis. Broke a proprietary seat rail clamp. I bet it cost only 10 cents to make - a tiny cerated clamp. Cannot buy it alone. Have to buy the entire clamshell which includes that part for $250. But that part is NLA. I found some metal piece in the garage and fashioned something similar and it has been working fine for two years and 10,000 miles.
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Old 01-17-24, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by veganbikes
The whole point of cutting out your local bike shop is you are losing all the support but you are getting a initially cheaper bike. When you buy a bike that uses a lot of proprietary parts that nobody else makes parts for you are making the choice to be stuck with that manufacturer.

In the end you have a fine bike and hopefully you won't need those parts but if you do at the very least Wheels Manufacturing has a hanger that should work fine: https://wheelsmfg.com/derailleur-hanger-407.html
It is a quality product made in the U.S. and your local shop can easily order one and help you install it and make sure it is properly aligned to your frame. Wheels generally makes hangers for a wide range of bikes from a wide range of years. So you aren't stuck with trying to find OEM hangers at least. They also make excellent bottom brackets, tools and a single speed kit for XD hubs.
i emailed them and they said they did not have one for a 2023 endurace cf8.
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Old 01-18-24, 12:26 AM
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I've had good luck with my Canyons, but they're an older Endurace sl and Ultimate slx w/o the one piece bar and stems(also have a Canyon gravel bike and enduro mtb.) The Endurace I got a 120mm Canyon "V13" stem back when parts were easy to get. The Ultimate is running a 120mm Ritchey WCS C220 stem...both bikes have the regular ol' round seat tube shape. The only problem I had, was with a cracked stem cap on the gravel bike. Luckily, I have my own home machine shop, so I just turned my own cap from a piece of aluminum round bar.

No regrets with either bike, but I'm definitely towards a different brand on the next go-around. Just by looking at the geometry, I know that a stock bike won't be the ideal fit for me...yet there isn't an option to change stems on the bikes with integrated cockpits. I'm honestly not happy with the state of affairs in much of the bike industry right now. I don't have a local shop, so there isn't any sort of loyalty that draws me to one of the mainstream brands. A previous experience with a well-known American brand has soured me on that particular brand. A lot of them are full of proprietary BS. I'm not even some retro-grouch that rails against carbon fiber, disc brakes, or press fit BBs. I like all that stuff, I just don't want non-round seat posts, proprietary cockpits, and weird frame gimmicks.

I'm even looking at another consumer-direct brand, maybe Fezzari, as the next purchase. They aren't afflicted with many proprietary accouterments(except that danged seat post), have competitive weights, and generally good reviews. I do 100% of my own work, so shop support isn't necessary.
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Old 01-18-24, 05:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Yan
Country availability is not a problem for me as I can take delivery in Europe, but Canyon is a total dead end because their bikes cannot be fitted.

Take the Aeroad for example. The CP0018 integrated bars, what your bike came with is what you must ride.
This integrated bars issue is the same for the major mfrs. I'm helping a friend choose a new high end bike, and the IBs are a problem across the board. Can't change the IBs on a Trek or a Cannondale either.
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Old 01-18-24, 05:57 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by BTinNYC
This integrated bars issue is the same for the major mfrs. I'm helping a friend choose a new high end bike, and the IBs are a problem across the board. Can't change the IBs on a Trek or a Cannondale either.
You can't "change" them, or can't find them for purchase?

But I do agree that it's likely an issue with many manufacturers. Canyon is being discussed, but if you did need a proprietary part for a Felt, Colnago, Bianchi, Pinarello, Wilier, etc.. IOW, any manufacturer that doesn't have an extensive US foothold, how easy to find the part you need?
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Old 01-18-24, 06:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene
You can't "change" them, or can't find them for purchase?
Ah, I meant the lack of adjustment options, short of total replacement. I like the fit of my IBs now, but to raise or shorten the reach will require changing to separate stem and bars. I'm at the age where lowering bars is doubtful, as is my buddy. He wants to buy a high end endurance style bike with CF wheels and from what we've seen so far, this level seems to be specified with integrated bars.
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Old 01-18-24, 06:24 AM
  #36  
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I see lots of Canyon bikes in my area of Florida, but rarely does one come into the shop for service. As a result, I was unaware that spare parts availability in the US was so horrible. It would be an absolute deal breaker if I was considering a Canyon purchase.
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Old 01-18-24, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Polaris OBark
If only someone would invent a universal derailleur hanger.
If only bike frame manufacturers would design and build all their frames to accept it. It certainly would make life easier.
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Old 01-18-24, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Bald Paul
If only bike frame manufacturers would design and build all their frames to accept it. It certainly would make life easier.
Backwards and sideways compatibility? You're talking nonsense in the age of planned obsolescence!
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Old 01-18-24, 09:21 AM
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Lack of parts availability is not limited to Canyon.
In 2023 it took me over 6 months to get a spare seat post clamp for my 2022 Cervelo R5 “D” shaped post.
Even then it remained unavailable direct from Cervelo.
Plus don’t get me started on me needing a Cervelo zero offset seat post. There went another $250.

Best mail order I’ve seen is QUINTANA ROO !
During the order process there is a text box titled “Other requests” or something close.
My buddy asked for 50-34 crank, 11-34 cassette & zero offset post. He just took delivery and all his requests were met.
Yes the QR seat post clamp is unique to QR, but at least his seat post is round!

Barry
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Old 01-18-24, 09:37 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Bald Paul
If only bike frame manufacturers would design and build all their frames to accept it. It certainly would make life easier.
Originally Posted by seypat
Backwards and sideways compatibility? You're talking nonsense in the age of planned obsolescence!

When I was your age, frames were made of carbon with a lot of iron in it. Those frames have the derailleur hanger as a part of the frame, so you never have to replace it.

The problem only arises when frames are made of sub-standard (i.e., more modern) materials like aluminum, carbon or titanium.
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Old 01-18-24, 09:38 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by BTinNYC
Ah, I meant the lack of adjustment options, short of total replacement. I like the fit of my IBs now, but to raise or shorten the reach will require changing to separate stem and bars. I'm at the age where lowering bars is doubtful, as is my buddy. He wants to buy a high end endurance style bike with CF wheels and from what we've seen so far, this level seems to be specified with integrated bars.
I admittedly dont keep up on the most recent changes to every brand, but there is definitely a way to get around this issue- buy the bike with aluminum wheels and buy some carbon wheels after.

Obviously what qualifies as 'endurance' varies for user to user and brand to brand. Endurance bikes have a wide range of geometry. But if a Cervelo Caledonia's geometry fits your friend, it would definitely qualify as 'high end' while being pretty simple to change things.
https://www.cervelo.com/en-US/bikes/caledonia - 12sp Ultegra DI2 with round seatpost, traditional handlebar and stem, and cable routing that is external and then runs thru the down tube. $5500 for the bike.
https://btlos.com/cx-gravel/gravel-h...arbon-wheelset - Then buy some BTLOS carbon wheels. WGX40A are Asymmetric, 40mm deep, 29mm wide external, come as hooked or hookless(so you can obviously get hooked and not have to worry), and you can get them with or without logos, without spoke holes in the rim bed so tubeless is easy(if you want that), and you can note when you order that drain holes be added. You get to choose from multiple hubs, spokes, nipples, and rim appearance(matte, gloss, weave). 24h rims in the premium series, DT240 hubs with 11spfreehub(fits Shimano 12) and Pillar Aero spokes- 3.5 year warranty, 1423g and $998 and they often do free shipping.
If you do the same spec but with Bitex 312 hubs instead of DT240, then you get 1447g wheels for $717.



Wild card suggestion- Fairlight Strael. Go down the rabbit hole and read about it in the links below as well as web reviews, long term reviews, and youtube reviews. Its an incredibly designed frame, the attention to detail and thought is top notch. There are a ton of sizes to choose from since they are made in R and T sizes, and you can then spec it exactly how you want for the final build(they will build it or your buddy can just buy what he wants for it and build it/pay for it to be built. An Ultegra R9020 Hydraulic Disc groupset is $663 right now. And the Ultegra R8170 Di2 12 speed is $1550 right now. Both could be cobbled together for less from random places. Anyways, either of those groups with the 40mm wheels for $717 and the cockpit of choice for $200-400 would be a really killer high end endurance road bike.
https://fairlightcycles.com/product/strael3-deposit/
https://fairlightcycles.com/strael-c...-design-notes/
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Old 01-18-24, 09:38 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by rsbob
Same thing scares me about modern Bianchis. Broke a proprietary seat rail clamp. I bet it cost only 10 cents to make - a tiny cerated clamp. Cannot buy it alone. Have to buy the entire clamshell which includes that part for $250. But that part is NLA. I found some metal piece in the garage and fashioned something similar and it has been working fine for two years and 10,000 miles.
Yeah, the Infinito CV frame -- very well reviewed and geometry fits me to a T -- has been on sale for a while, but I am very hesitant to buy one after (1) examining the adjustable but apparently fragile structure of the rail clamp, (2) learning about your issue from an earlier post, and (3) finding that the proprietary seat post is still unavailable for separate purchase.
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Old 01-18-24, 10:31 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by BTinNYC
This integrated bars issue is the same for the major mfrs. I'm helping a friend choose a new high end bike, and the IBs are a problem across the board. Can't change the IBs on a Trek or a Cannondale either.
Originally Posted by Sy Reene
You can't "change" them, or can't find them for purchase?

But I do agree that it's likely an issue with many manufacturers. Canyon is being discussed, but if you did need a proprietary part for a Felt, Colnago, Bianchi, Pinarello, Wilier, etc.. IOW, any manufacturer that doesn't have an extensive US foothold, how easy to find the part you need?
Originally Posted by BTinNYC
Ah, I meant the lack of adjustment options, short of total replacement. I like the fit of my IBs now, but to raise or shorten the reach will require changing to separate stem and bars. I'm at the age where lowering bars is doubtful, as is my buddy. He wants to buy a high end endurance style bike with CF wheels and from what we've seen so far, this level seems to be specified with integrated bars.
It's not just a problem with integrated bars. With other brands if you are willing to spend several hundred dollars to replace the integrated bars, you can do that. With Canyon, even if you WANT to spend the money, you CAN'T. Because as of January 2024, THEY DON'T SELL THE INTEGRATED BARS SEPARATELY. It's not out of stock. It's not awaiting delivery in X months. It's simply not listed on their website. It's not for sale. PERIOD.

Whatever bars came with your Canyon bike is what you will ride forever. End of story.

As I said, this brand is a total dead end for any serious cyclist, unless you coincidentally happen to fit their default setup.

Last edited by Yan; 01-18-24 at 10:45 AM.
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Old 01-18-24, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Yan
It's not just a problem with integrated bars. With other brands if you are willing to spend several hundred dollars to replace the integrated bars, you can do that. With Canyon, even if you WANT to spend the money, you CAN'T. Because as of January 2024, THEY DON'T SELL THE INTEGRATED BARS SEPARATELY. It's not out of stock. It's not awaiting delivery in X months. It's simply not listed on their website. It's not for sale. PERIOD.

Whatever bars came with your Canyon bike is what you will ride forever. End of story.

As I said, this brand is a total dead end for any serious cyclist, unless you are one of the rare few who coincidentally just happen to fit their default setup.
Are you telling us that the Stem length cannot be customized because it's integrated into bars that are not for sale?

If true, I agree that's a kiss-of-death for Canyon high end bikes.

Barry

Last edited by Barry2; 01-18-24 at 10:56 AM.
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Old 01-18-24, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Polaris OBark
When I was your age, frames were made of carbon with a lot of iron in it. Those frames have the derailleur hanger as a part of the frame, so you never have to replace it.

The problem only arises when frames are made of sub-standard (i.e., more modern) materials like aluminum, carbon or titanium.
Good Lord, man, what are you? 150? I'm in my 70s!
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Old 01-18-24, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Barry2
Are you telling us that the Stem length cannot be customized because it's integrated into bars that are not for sale?

If true, that's a kiss-of-death for Canyon high end bikes.

Barry
Yes that's exactly the case, at least as of January 2024. Better light some incense and send up some prayers that they'll change their mind.

Last edited by Yan; 01-18-24 at 11:01 AM.
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Old 01-18-24, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Yan
Yes that's exactly the case, at least as of January 2024. Better light some incense and send up some prayers that they'll change their mind.
I don't care if they change their mind.
They've made their bed......

Barry
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Old 01-18-24, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Barry2
Are you telling us that the Stem length cannot be customized because it's integrated into bars that are not for sale?

If true, that's a kiss-of-death for Canyon high end bikes.

Barry
It's not just Canyon. There are a lot of bike models that use parts such as this. They make them in various sizes or shapes for the model run, and once the "new" model comes out with some other design, they stop making them. Once they are gone, they're gone. Aero seat posts are right up there on that list. You ride your bike a few years, and something happens to the saddle rail clamp. Now you find you can't get a seat post that fits anymore. Your expensive, super aero bike has just become a piece of wall art, unless you like to pedal out of the (non-existent) saddle 100% of the time.
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Old 01-18-24, 11:08 AM
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Their handlebar availability is clearly based on some kind of production run system. They sold spare bars for the Aeroad last year. These are no longer for sale. They currently sell bars for their gravel bikes and the Ultimate. I'm guessing come end of the model year if you're late to the party buying whatever stem length you need and miss the boat, it's RIP.

Nobody should buy a bike knowing that by the time you take delivery and go in for a bike fit, the correct sized bars you need may no longer be for sale.

I'm in the market later this year and will probably buy a Giant Propel, which uses separate bar and stem but nevertheless hides the cables. That's the best solution by far.

Last edited by Yan; 01-18-24 at 11:17 AM.
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Old 01-18-24, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Barry2
Are you telling us that the Stem length cannot be customized because it's integrated into bars that are not for sale?
Maybe even worse: the clamping system to steer tube, as well as the shape of the steer tube around clamping area are special (maybe proprietary?). If you want to switch to classical stem or other type of integrated handlebar, you probably need to change the fork as well. Forget about fitting the bike and pray to never crash your handlebar, otherwise you might need to simply buy another bike.
As somebody said above, I think that it is not only Canyon, but other brands as well.
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