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What scares me about Canyon

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What scares me about Canyon

Old 01-18-24, 06:01 PM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by TakingMyTime
That wasn't there a week ago. When I'm on Canyon's site and "My Garage" and search for bike specific parts availability it wasn't there. Thanks!
Actually it still isn't there. "Coming Soon".
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Old 01-18-24, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Polaris OBark
Even though I am not a SRAM-fan, I think ultimately this is for the greater good. The fact that there were no standards is crazy. (I am an Apple fanboi, but their connectors and dongles are a low-point. I have a box of various Apple dongles dating back to firewire and VGA. It is just a pile of e-waste now.)
I have an Apple Duo with its DuoDock… waiting for it to become antique so I can get rich!
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Old 01-18-24, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by jadmt
i emailed them and they said they did not have one for a 2023 endurace cf8.
Oh weird it looks like the one that someone linked to earlier. Maybe for a different model?
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Old 01-18-24, 09:36 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by veganbikes
Oh weird it looks like the one that someone linked to earlier. Maybe for a different model?
the one i need is the one i posted in post 16.
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Old 01-18-24, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by jadmt
the one i need is the one i posted in post 16.
Ahhh you needed a different one. Well darn. Hopefully they will make one soon enough. Derailleurhanger.com is another popular one if I cannot find it through Wheels or other source also Pilo makes stuff but I think they are most common in Europe.
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Old 01-18-24, 11:43 PM
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This all sounds like a perfect justification for n+1.
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Old 01-19-24, 04:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Yan
I

As I said, this brand is a total dead end for any serious cyclist, unless you coincidentally happen to fit their default setup.
Not "any". I know a ton of "serious" cyclists that have not had a bike fit, including myself. Personally, I'm not real sensitive to differences between bikes- within reason of course, and after a few min of riding a different bike - I'm "used" to it. Just like how I'm not really sensitive to small differences in stiffness, compliance and all the other jargon.

Being unable to replace parts is a different story. Bars don't last forever, seat posts can break/get corroded, proprietary clamps/fittings can break, easily in some cases... I'm hard on my equipment and ride bikes till the wheels fall off - for that reason, bikes with proprietary parts - I'm out.
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Old 01-19-24, 05:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Jughed
Not "any". I know a ton of "serious" cyclists that have not had a bike fit, including myself. Personally, I'm not real sensitive to differences between bikes- within reason of course, and after a few min of riding a different bike - I'm "used" to it. Just like how I'm not really sensitive to small differences in stiffness, compliance and all the other jargon.

Being unable to replace parts is a different story. Bars don't last forever, seat posts can break/get corroded, proprietary clamps/fittings can break, easily in some cases... I'm hard on my equipment and ride bikes till the wheels fall off - for that reason, bikes with proprietary parts - I'm out.
Sensitivity depends on the demand of the ride. I have no doubt you can jump on just about any bike and feel fine on a morning ride, but when you get into a 100km, a 160km, a 200km, a 300km, and beyond, etc; at a certain point, believe me, you're going to get "sensitive".

If you can currently do a 200km ride and feel fine, then a bike fit may allow you to extend that to 250km without any additional discomfort. That's from a postural perspective of course. Your endurance is still your own responsibility.

And if you never do more than a century, a proper fit can still help you enjoy the ride more.

Last edited by Yan; 01-19-24 at 05:38 AM.
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Old 01-19-24, 01:04 PM
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The thing is, Canyon, like all bike companies, is trying to sell NEW bikes. They - none of them - really care about the trials and tribulations of anyone buying their bikes second hand. So they don't have much incentive NOT to use proprietary parts on their top-end bikes, especially because so many cyclists Oooo and Ahhhh at things like integrated cockpits with totally hidden cables/hoses. Not great news for the secondary market, but also not their concern. I don't think there's a very large market for a high end new bike with only standard parts, but maybe someone will come along and prove me wrong and dominate the high-end bike sector.

You pays your money and you takes your choice.
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Old 01-19-24, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Yan
Sensitivity depends on the demand of the ride. I have no doubt you can jump on just about any bike and feel fine on a morning ride, but when you get into a 100km, a 160km, a 200km, a 300km, and beyond, etc; at a certain point, believe me, you're going to get "sensitive".

If you can currently do a 200km ride and feel fine, then a bike fit may allow you to extend that to 250km without any additional discomfort. That's from a postural perspective of course. Your endurance is still your own responsibility.

And if you never do more than a century, a proper fit can still help you enjoy the ride more.
The question I'd have, though, would be how many riders require something outside of what's normally supplied? I had a pro bike fit about 25 years ago, which worked so well I have carefully replicated it on all my bikes. When I bought my Canyon Endurace in 2020, I was able to get it within a few mm of that fit with nothing but the parts it came with. I wonder what percentage of cyclists that's true for? If it's the vast majority of cyclists, then there's a lot less incentive/need for either non-proprietary parts, or multiple sizes of proprietary parts for fitting new bikes.
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Old 01-19-24, 01:15 PM
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Not helpful to the OP, but this is why my last (and most expensive) bike purchase was a custom steel frame with completely ordinary specs and components. I could probably go into almost any decent bike shop on the planet and purchase a replacement for almost any part on that bike. No weird press-fit BB, no unusual headset spec, no internal cable routing, etc.
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Old 01-19-24, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by genejockey
So they don't have much incentive NOT to use proprietary parts on their top-end bikes, especially because so many cyclists Oooo and Ahhhh at things like integrated cockpits with totally hidden cables/hoses.
Maybe one would expect proprietary parts / systems on the top-end level bikes (around 10,500-euro tag price for Canyon) but I am afraid the things went much farther. Much lower tiers around 4000 EUR price got almost the same level of proprietary systems as the high end. And if you go to the lowest price level (around 2700 EUR), you still find some signs of proprietary parts. It leads to the situation where some common works that were usually done in house with low costs, require now sending the bike to the producer for repairs at 2-3 times higher costs. This is a very aggressive and unfair push followed by many brands, not only Canyon.
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Old 01-19-24, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Redbullet
This is a very aggressive and unfair push followed by many brands, not only Canyon.
I wouldn't describe it as "unfair," since no one is forcing you to buy it.
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Old 01-19-24, 02:48 PM
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have a 27 year old Litespeed with AMP rear suspension - 12 year old Cannondale with a Headshok - and a 5 year old Cannondale with a Lefty

I don’t understand the aversion to proprietary parts ???

on a related note - looking forward to riding the above bikes when I can find some replacement parts
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Old 01-19-24, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Redbullet
It leads to the situation where some common works that were usually done in house with low costs, require now sending the bike to the producer for repairs at 2-3 times higher costs. This is a very aggressive and unfair push followed by many brands, not only Canyon.
Some people might quibble with "unfair" since they presume both sides of a commercial transaction have access to similar levels of information. I think that position is a bit far-fetched, since I've never seen a large company provide "open-kimono" pricing and profit information about their manufacturing and business practices until you get well into seven or eight digit transactions, and even then, that kind of disclosure usually involves a very large corporation doing the procurement.

That said, perhaps "predatory" would be a better descriptor, with the seller (Canyon in this case) taking advantage of a poorly informed or uninformed purchaser. I mean, really, who goes into a bike shop and asks, "How much will it cost to replace a derailer hanger, or a stem, or bars, or a bottom bracket, three years after the sale?"
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Old 01-19-24, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by pdlamb
Some people might quibble with "unfair" since they presume both sides of a commercial transaction have access to similar levels of information. I think that position is a bit far-fetched, since I've never seen a large company provide "open-kimono" pricing and profit information about their manufacturing and business practices until you get well into seven or eight digit transactions, and even then, that kind of disclosure usually involves a very large corporation doing the procurement.

That said, perhaps "predatory" would be a better descriptor, with the seller (Canyon in this case) taking advantage of a poorly informed or uninformed purchaser. I mean, really, who goes into a bike shop and asks, "How much will it cost to replace a derailer hanger, or a stem, or bars, or a bottom bracket, three years after the sale?"
I'd reserve "predatory" for situations where the consumer doesn't have lots of other choices - like convenience stores in food deserts. There are lots of other bikes, including used ones with non-proprietary parts.

WRT "open kimono", Canyon doesn't know - or likely much care - just how much bike you, the individual consumer could afford, so it's somewhat blind on both sides.
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Old 01-19-24, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Koyote
I wouldn't describe it as "unfair," since no one is forcing you to buy it.
Well... they indirectly do. Because other brands also have similar approach. The options that remain to me is either not buying a bike at all, or buying another low brand and quality. This is not fair.

To give you an example: last year I needed to replace a fork on another brand bike (not Canyon) which was a little above average tier in 2015 when I bought it. I had a lot of discussions with the company for selling me the fork (which they still had in stock), but they insisted to send them the bike for repair, not in my country but in the country of origin of producer, at almost 2 times price of the fork including service. Finally, I hardly got a compromise to send them the damaged fork on my expense and they send me the new fork 1.5 months later at full price and transport cost. I doubt that I can get such "compromise" again, I would probably be obliged to send the full bike back and support their high service costs and transport on top of the price of the part. This is unfair business.

Last edited by Redbullet; 01-19-24 at 03:09 PM.
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Old 01-19-24, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by pdlamb
That said, perhaps "predatory" would be a better descriptor, with the seller (Canyon in this case) taking advantage of a poorly informed or uninformed purchaser. I mean, really, who goes into a bike shop and asks, "How much will it cost to replace a derailer hanger, or a stem, or bars, or a bottom bracket, three years after the sale?"
I can't agree that. First, let's forget a minute about Canyon, because this is a practice that other well known producers apply as well. I can not even say that Canyon was the first to apply it.
When you buy a common car (not Bugatti or similar), you simply presume that you ca maintain and repair it close to you at a reasonable price, and it is always true. There are "after market" parts and services available at high quality and reasonable price and even the brand parts are still in your arm length, if you agree to pay a little premium.
But being obliged to send a bike to the producer for a simple repair and change of parts, then bear the exorbitant price of such action and service is not a fair commercial practice.
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Old 01-19-24, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Redbullet
Well... they indirectly do. Because other brands also have similar approach. The options that remain to me is either not buying a bike at all, or buying another low brand and quality. This is not fair.

To give you an example: last year I needed to replace a fork on another brand bike (not Canyon) which was a little above average tier in 2015 when I bought it. I had a lot of discussions with the company for selling me the fork (which they still had in stock), but they insisted to send them the bike for repair, not in my country but in the country of origin of producer, at almost 2 times price of the fork including service. Finally, I hardly got a compromise to send them the damaged fork on my expense and they send me the new fork 1.5 months later at full price and transport cost. I doubt that I can get such "compromise" again, I would probably be obliged to send the full bike back and support their high service costs and transport on top of the price of the part. This is unfair business.
You're pretending that all brands are building complicated bikes with hard-to-source proprietary parts - and that's just not true. Not true at all.
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Old 01-19-24, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Koyote
You're pretending that all brands are building complicated bikes with hard-to-source proprietary parts - and that's just not true. Not true at all.
Not all brands but, I think, many well known brands which I researched last year when I decided to buy a Canyon, despite the drawbacks. They are not quite "complicated" parts, but just proprietary without not real added value. Thus, they are hard or impossible to replace.

Example: Look at the beautiful "CP0018 Aerocockpit", delivered not only on high end but also on middle Canyon tiers. The proprietary mounting and the shape of the steerer around the mounting area looks to me as impossible to replace without sending the bike to the producer (as long as the handlebar is not available to buy, nor the fork). The only relief comes if you think that there is a low likelihood to break the original handlebar or fork.
And I should say here again that it is probably an industry unfair evolution, not only Canyon's behavior.
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Old 01-19-24, 06:06 PM
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First world fears are so Very Very Scary!
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Old 01-20-24, 06:45 AM
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So I could get this ENDURACE CFSLXDi2AERO
plus this ENDURACE CF8 LTD

for about the same cost as this
CALEDONIA Di2

This would provide some extra backup parts.
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Old 01-20-24, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by BTinNYC
First world fears are so Very Very Scary!
Yeah, I just enjoy riding my Canyon and the integrated carbon bar/stem happens to be super comfortable. I get the point about bike fit limitations, but I'm fine with the stock stem length on mine. Some riders are micro-adjusters, others are relatively insensitive and I'm the latter.

I also live in the UK where Canyon parts are relatively easy to find.
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Old 01-20-24, 09:41 AM
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I don't have these problems with my Yoeleo frames. They come with a spare RD hanger and seat rail clamp. The integrated stem shape is unique to Yoeleo, but the steering tube is normal round 28.6mm. I bought the latest integrated bar/stem last year for $300 delivered. The seat post is unique too, but I've never damaged a seatpost or bars, stem or RD hanger.

It's worth looking at wheels manufacturing hangers. They offer many.

https://wheelsmfg.com/derailleur-han...ngers.html?p=2
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Old 01-20-24, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Redbullet
To give you an example: last yearI needed to replace a fork on another brand bike (not Canyon) which was a little above average tier in 2015 when I bought it. I had a lot of discussions with the company for selling me the fork (which they still had in stock), but they insisted to send them the bike for repair, not in my country but in the country of origin of producer, at almost 2 times price of the fork including service. Finally, I hardly got a compromise to send them the damaged fork on my expense and they send me the new fork 1.5 months later at full price and transport cost. I doubt that I can get such "compromise" again, I would probably be obliged to send the full bike back and support their high service costs and transport on top of the price of the part. This is unfair business.
Or they've been burned by selling a fork direct to a customer who then had it installed by a mechanic friend (i.e., a guy who works at Jiffy Lube and usually manages to put the plug back in without cross-threading it, sometimes on the first try).

Then, the installation having been screwed up and the fork damaged as a result, the customer insists on being sent a "nondefective" fork for free.

Anyone who has worked in a bike shop for any length of time has likely encountered this at least once, to say nothing of distributors that sell to hundreds of shops. With a manufacturer that sells high-end bikes, all it takes is one such event for the company to adopt a blanket policy: "No direct sales of parts to consumers."
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