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What scares me about Canyon

Old 01-30-24, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by pdlamb
By "complete weight weenie" I'm guessing you mean someone who wants a bike lighter than 15 pounds. You could beat that with lightweight component selection with a custom steel frame (but probably without a lifetime frame warranty!).
Unlikely to get any steel-framed bike under 15 lbs, unless it's a very small frame built with very thin-walled tubing and equipped with total weight-weenie components. And anyone who's willing to go to such lengths would likely skip steel anyway and go with a cf frame.
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Old 01-30-24, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by TakingMyTime
I emailed Canyon US and told them I needed a longer stem cockpit for my bike. The cockpit I want/need "is expected near the end of June or early July". So basically, if mine was broken I would be SOL.

I think this may be my first and last Canyon.
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Old 01-30-24, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Koyote
Unlikely to get any steel-framed bike under 15 lbs, unless it's a very small frame built with very thin-walled tubing and equipped with total weight-weenie components. And anyone who's willing to go to such lengths would likely skip steel anyway and go with a cf frame.
12 pounds is pretty light, and yes, ultra-thin tubing. Thicken them up and you could still be under 15 lbs.

This is the world's lightest steel road bike | 5.42kg of marvellous metal - BikeRadar
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Old 01-30-24, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Koyote
Unlikely to get any steel-framed bike under 15 lbs, unless it's a very small frame built with very thin-walled tubing and equipped with total weight-weenie components. And anyone who's willing to go to such lengths would likely skip steel anyway and go with a cf frame.
I think most of the weight on my bikes come from components (and add-ons like racks). Take off racks and fenders, put a lighter saddle on, and I'd have a 25 pound touring bike. I could probably take off 4-5 pounds in the wheels and tires (OK, I'm counting a dyno hub in there). That's a two minute thought experiment. It shouldn't be too hard to save 3 pounds on the frame, and then spending a few eveings' weight-weenie exercise on other components (and a few $k) should get me down close to 15 pounds on my XL frame.
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Old 01-30-24, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Koyote
Unlikely to get any steel-framed bike under 15 lbs, unless it's a very small frame built with very thin-walled tubing and equipped with total weight-weenie components. And anyone who's willing to go to such lengths would likely skip steel anyway and go with a cf frame.
Originally Posted by smd4
12 pounds is pretty light, and yes, ultra-thin tubing. Thicken them up and you could still be under 15 lbs.

This is the world's lightest steel road bike | 5.42kg of marvellous metal - BikeRadar
You've proved my point: that's a rather small (52cm) bike with ultra thin-walled tubing (.35mm) and a whole bunch of weight weenie components - including a carbon fiber fork. It's also not ready to ride, unless you have figured out how to ride a bike without pedals. And personally, I like water bottle cages, too.

That thing is an interesting "proof of concept" device, but not really feasible in the real world: under all but the lightest and weakest riders, that thing would flex like a mofo...Which is probably why it seems to be vaporware.
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Old 01-31-24, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Koyote
You've proved my point: that's a rather small (52cm) bike with ultra thin-walled tubing (.35mm) and a whole bunch of weight weenie components - including a carbon fiber fork. It's also not ready to ride, unless you have figured out how to ride a bike without pedals. And personally, I like water bottle cages, too.

That thing is an interesting "proof of concept" device, but not really feasible in the real world: under all but the lightest and weakest riders, that thing would flex like a mofo...Which is probably why it seems to be vaporware.
Yeah, if you want ultra-light and rideable then you might as well just buy an Aethos, which is about half the frame weight of that thing and undoubtably much stiffer in all the right places.
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Old 01-31-24, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Koyote
You've proved my point:
My point is, discounting all your exceptions, rules and other artificial limitations, it is entirely possible to build a sub-15 pound steel road bike. My "heavy" steel bike is at 21.5 lbs, with pedals, with water bottle cages, with not-particularly light parts, zero carbon anything and without tubulars.
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Old 01-31-24, 12:42 PM
  #108  
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Originally Posted by smd4
My point is, discounting all your exceptions, rules and other artificial limitations, it is entirely possible to build a sub-15 pound steel road bike. My "heavy" steel bike is at 21.5 lbs, with pedals, with water bottle cages, with not-particularly light parts, zero carbon anything and without tubulars.
Not sure that usability by anyone >120 lbs is an "artificial limitation". I mean, the S-works Aethos is sub 14 lbs in its highest level of trim (IIRC), but it has a rider weight limit of something like 275 lbs.

BITD, Bicycle Guide built a sub-16 lb bike that was unrideable for anyone over 150 lbs, and loaded with components most famous for fragility. It was an experiment, not really a bike.
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Old 01-31-24, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by smd4
My point is, discounting all your exceptions, rules and other artificial limitations, it is entirely possible to build a sub-15 pound steel road bike. My "heavy" steel bike is at 21.5 lbs, with pedals, with water bottle cages, with not-particularly light parts, zero carbon anything and without tubulars.
Those aren't "rules;" I was stating that it is possible to build a sub-15 lb steel-framed bike, but only with some pretty substantial trade-offs. Your example supports that point.

Originally Posted by genejockey
BITD, Bicycle Guide built a sub-16 lb bike that was unrideable for anyone over 150 lbs, and loaded with components most famous for fragility. It was an experiment, not really a bike.
The bike cited by smd4 seems to also be an experiment, since it doesn't seem to actually be for sale anywhere.

If it were possible to build reliable and rideable sub-15 pound bikes with steel frames, without huge limitations, wed see plenty of them. But it isnt, so we dont.

Last edited by Koyote; 01-31-24 at 03:06 PM.
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Old 02-07-24, 03:10 PM
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If you're buying a bike with proprietary parts, buy a spare for each such part when you buy the bike.

Weird wheelsets? Buy spare spokes and bearings.
Suspension? Buy a complete rebuild kit.
Funky bars/stem/seatpost/seat clamp? Buy an extra of each.
Always, always buy at least one spare rear derailleur hanger.

Because there's very little that sucks more than having to trashcan a multi-thousand-dollar bike because you broke or wore out a less-than-100-dollar part that hasn't been made for 5 years and nothing else fits the place where it goes. Parts availability will never be better than it is when you buy the bike.

Or, you know, you could accept a small weight penalty, and give up some tiny increment of "performance," however you define that term, and buy bikes that don't have any weird proprietary parts. (This isn't an option for mountain bikers, of course, because suspension, but that's why you always buy a full rebuild kit for every shock on your bike.)

--Shannon
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Old 02-08-24, 08:32 AM
  #111  
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Originally Posted by ShannonM
If you're buying a bike with proprietary parts, buy a spare for each such part when you buy the bike.

Weird wheelsets? Buy spare spokes and bearings.
Suspension? Buy a complete rebuild kit.
Funky bars/stem/seatpost/seat clamp? Buy an extra of each.
Always, always buy at least one spare rear derailleur hanger.
--Shannon
That's what I'm currently trying to do. I really like the bike but being able to obtain parts 1-5 years down the road might be a problem.
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Old 02-08-24, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by ShannonM
If you're buying a bike with proprietary parts, buy a spare for each such part when you buy the bike.

Weird wheelsets? Buy spare spokes and bearings.
Suspension? Buy a complete rebuild kit.
Funky bars/stem/seatpost/seat clamp? Buy an extra of each.
Always, always buy at least one spare rear derailleur hanger.

Because there's very little that sucks more than having to trashcan a multi-thousand-dollar bike because you broke or wore out a less-than-100-dollar part that hasn't been made for 5 years and nothing else fits the place where it goes. Parts availability will never be better than it is when you buy the bike.

Or, you know, you could accept a small weight penalty, and give up some tiny increment of "performance," however you define that term, and buy bikes that don't have any weird proprietary parts. (This isn't an option for mountain bikers, of course, because suspension, but that's why you always buy a full rebuild kit for every shock on your bike.)

--Shannon
can't do that with Canyon I tried and they say they don't have the parts....this on a new bike...what will it be when it is a few years old...
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Old 02-08-24, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by TakingMyTime
What scares me about Canyon. I
What scares me about canyon is that catilevered glass bottomed observation deck thing...
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Old 02-08-24, 09:35 AM
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Has anyone considered asking a small machine shop to mill a replacement derailer hanger? Sure, it may look pricey, but when you compare the cost to a new bike ...
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Old 02-08-24, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by wheelreason
What scares me about canyon is that catilevered glass bottomed observation deck thing...
especially when it was cracking...pretty freaky for sure
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Old 02-08-24, 10:19 AM
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I just got lucky and ordered an oem GP0252-01 off ebay. had 3 yesterday then 2 two this morning then none.....from a reputable shop in SLC. Canyon keeps moving the available date ahead on these. If you look at Canyon's parts on their website they have about 100 different rd hangers. Based on 3 being sold in such a short time people must want them.
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Old 02-08-24, 05:25 PM
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Someone should start up a website devoted to Proprietary Parts Swaps
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Old 02-08-24, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Bald Paul
It's definitely something to consider anytime you're planning on purchasing a bike. Proprietary parts may be available, maybe not. What about in 5 years? If you can't get a replacement derailleur hanger, seat post clamp, or other minor part it pretty much means you have to get a new bike, or at least a new frame and then swap over everything you can.
Precisely why I had my custom bike built with standard parts, particularly bottom bracket (I used BSA threaded), seatpost/clamp (standard 27.2mm round) and fork / headset (standard 31.6mm handlebar mount, regular tapered steerer tube, no internal cable routing). The only really proprietary part that I'd have to go the frame manufacturer to get would be the rear derailleur hanger, and I'll probably buy a couple as spares just in case just to make sure I have them regardless of what happens to the frame manufacturer in the future.

I specifically refuse to buy any bike that doesn't use standard parts.
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Old 02-10-24, 09:48 AM
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What scares me about Trek .. replacement parts don't always solve
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Old 02-10-24, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene
What scares me about Trek .. replacement parts don't always solve

Looks like trek replaced the frame though.
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Old 02-10-24, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by bampilot06
Looks like trek replaced the frame though.
Yeah, hopefully OP in that thread will get the same treatment. Fortunate that Trek now has a newer Gen model that they can replace with.
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Old 02-11-24, 07:33 PM
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My problem like others mentioned is that the substituted crank on the gravel bike I bought from them makes it literally impossible to find a compatible chainring. I wanted to switch from a 40 to a 38, and I had better luck just replacing the cranks to something more standard
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Old 02-11-24, 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by The Chemist
I specifically refuse to buy any bike that doesn't use standard parts.
It is getting pretty hard to find a CF endurance bike with the geometry I need (i.e., stack:reach > 1.5) without (at least) a proprietary seat post. A Cannondale Synapse fits the bill but I already have one.
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Old 02-18-24, 11:11 AM
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Glad I came across this thread- I had been toying with the idea of buying a (literal) new bike and had been considering an Endurace. I didn't realize there was a proprietary aspect! I'm only used to parts bin and co-op mechanics.
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Old 02-22-24, 07:41 AM
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The term "German engineering" used to really mean something. But the Germans (like Boeing) got clever, and now we have German marketing instead.
When BMW's motorcycles (which were worshiped as indestructible for decades) started exploding gear drives and dangerous, surging fuel-injection problems, they denied it for years. Then they casually introduced the dual-spark ignitions to solve the surging problem and (hopefully) resolved the grenading gear-drive problems on their motorcycles.
"Sorry everyone who trusted us before and bought a motorcycle. Ziss interfiew iss over!"

Also BMW's subscription crap on car features has made a BMW-hater out of me. And I've recently learned Shimano has committed a similar crime. Marketing > Engineering.

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