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Zwift Layoffs, Discontinues Zwift Hub Trainer

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Zwift Layoffs, Discontinues Zwift Hub Trainer

Old 02-09-24, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
Originally Posted by rchung
Zwift is an interesting experiment in finding the least amount of visual and physics realism that you can have and still retain users. The climb portals and descending physics reveal that the floor is pretty low.
Pretty jaded way to look at things.

Maybe it's an interesting experiment in finding ways to turn a traditionally solo and closed off activity into a social and enjoyable activity.
Gamifying and socializing something that many have historically found to be boring or a chore is pretty cool for a lot of users.
But sure, someone could look at all of it with your perspective too.

Ends up that we all have different priorities when deciding what we value or use. Wild, right?
Hmmm. So what you're saying is, Zwift can go lower.
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Old 02-09-24, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by RChung
Hmmm. So what you're saying is, Zwift can go lower.
There is that dismissive and insulting perspective again!

You prioritize differently than others. It's OK for that to be the reality.
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Old 02-10-24, 12:28 AM
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Since my Wahoo Kickr just kicked it for a second time, I ordered a Hub One through Wahoo - with a 1 year warranty and 30 day love it or shove it guarantee. We shall see - but then I have no issue being committed to ZWIFT for one year Ďfreeí.
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Old 02-10-24, 05:28 AM
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The world that amplified their market has changed. When their usage and sales spiked, many businesses were struggling. The consumers had additional cash in their pockets they couldn’t spend in bars, restaurants and other entertainment. As those opportunities became available again the migration back to those activities has been varied, but I believe most have been restored by now. While I’m assuming a percentage of people made permanent activity changes, many went back to their old ways of life and activities. My guess is their assumption they could ever have that participation again would be unrealistic.
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Old 02-10-24, 06:45 AM
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Reading through the comments, there's a lot more attitude than experience with enterprise software or tech start-ups.
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Old 02-10-24, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by rsbob
Is the Hub One only designed to work with ZWIFT?
It would work with any program that uses Erg mode, like TrainerRoad. Other world simulators probably wouldn't work.


Originally Posted by RChung
Hmmm. So what you're saying is, Zwift can go lower.
It really doesn't take a lot for an effective simulator, aircraft simulators have proven that long ago. Zwift is pretty good on a PC that has been optimized for it, and with the proper tv/monitor has decent graphics. It's not so good on an apple TV. It doesn't actually take much of a PC to get good graphics, certainly not a gaming pc
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Old 02-10-24, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by BTinNYC
Reading through the comments, there's a lot more attitude than experience with enterprise software or tech start-ups.
If you can enlighten us, it would be appreciated 'cause we're all guessin' here.

Buckling under VC loan payback terms and transitioning out of development mode to sustain mode in a market with limited further growth potential and right-sizing the workforce to that end is my guess.

Do you have a better guess?
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Old 02-10-24, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by RChung
Zwift is an interesting experiment in finding the least amount of visual and physics realism that you can have and still retain users. The climb portals and descending physics reveal that the floor is pretty low.
Having tried other sims that do attempt to simulate braking on descents, I have concluded that it's a pretty pointless feature on an indoor trainer. Indoor descents are just rest bites for me, nothing more. You have no feel for the virtual road or bike handling on the trainer, so I think there is little point in trying to simulate that aspect of cycling. The same goes for steering input. I have tried the active steering on Zwift and just found it a pointless distraction. Maybe if Zwift slowed down automatically for descent corners it would look more realistic, but then a long mountain descent might drag on longer than it really needs to indoors. I actually quite like the FFWD effect Zwift provides on a hairpin mountain descent, lol.

I don't mind the climb portals either and find them quite useful for hill climb training. Of course it would be nice if all these real-world climbs were fully rendered like they did with Ventoux etc, but I can see how this simplified approach allows more variety of climb profiles with very little additional effort.

Anyway I keep on coming back to Zwift for entertaining group rides and races and the odd solo cruise around the worlds. I use the climb portal too whenever there is an interesting iconic climb posted up.

One thing for sure is that I ride indoors a LOT more than I ever did pre Zwift and smart trainers.
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Old 02-10-24, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by base2

Do you have a better guess?
Yes.
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Old 02-10-24, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by BTinNYC
Yes.
Then please share.
"Inquiring minds want to know"ģ
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Old 02-10-24, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
There is that dismissive and insulting perspective again!


You prioritize differently than others. It's OK for that to be the reality.
Dude, it's not dismissive or insulting at all (though you prioritize differently than others, so if you're insulted, it's OK for that to be your reality. I don't judge.) I can absolutely positively guarantee that Zwift is making these decisions about their user base *all the time,* and to survive they need to. They're main product is social. They don't need bears falling out of trees, or dinosaurs, or steering input, or downhill physics, or even trees. You don't really miss lizards going through the desert, do you? No one is there because the backgrounds don't look realistic. As we can see from the climb portals, they don't need trees or landscape or changing perspectives on buildings or bridges or mountains. Most people (most, though not you, and that's okay, there's nothing wrong with that) are there because lots of others are there, and once they're there they build up a habit and they stay. As long as that continues, Zwift's business will survive (it may not prosper, but it will survive. In order to prosper, they need to grow.). Why are there groups that follow the robopacers? Have you ever seen a robopacer in real life? Even if you're following a robopacer, there are lots of others around. Zwift is a social app. It doesn't need realism. Realism in terms of graphic artists and illustrators and the coders who write routines to change perspective aren't central to their business, and they're constantly figuring out what they can jettison while maintaining their customer base. If you find Zwift's approach insulting and dismissive, then you can always just quit it.
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Old 02-10-24, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by base2
Buckling under VC loan payback terms and transitioning out of development mode to sustain mode in a market with limited further growth potential and right-sizing the workforce to that end is my guess.

Do you have a better guess?
I'm not familiar with VC loans. VCs that I know always want an equity deal.

The VC-funded startup gamble is to grow big enough to get an exit before the end of the "runway" (cash). Zwift found out it's not going to hit its exit target before the end of the runway, and since they have missed their growth rate predictions, nobody's willing to build more runway for them. And depending on the terms of the funding, some of that runway may even be clawed back. BTDT.

Happens. All. The. Time.
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Old 02-10-24, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by RChung
Dude, it's not dismissive or insulting at all (though you prioritize differently than others, so if you're insulted, it's OK for that to be your reality. I don't judge.) I can absolutely positively guarantee that Zwift is making these decisions about their user base *all the time,* and to survive they need to. They're main product is social. They don't need bears falling out of trees, or dinosaurs, or steering input, or downhill physics, or even trees. You don't really miss lizards going through the desert, do you? No one is there because the backgrounds don't look realistic. As we can see from the climb portals, they don't need trees or landscape or changing perspectives on buildings or bridges or mountains. Most people (most, though not you, and that's okay, there's nothing wrong with that) are there because lots of others are there, and once they're there they build up a habit and they stay. As long as that continues, Zwift's business will survive (it may not prosper, but it will survive. In order to prosper, they need to grow.). Why are there groups that follow the robopacers? Have you ever seen a robopacer in real life? Even if you're following a robopacer, there are lots of others around. Zwift is a social app. It doesn't need realism. Realism in terms of graphic artists and illustrators and the coders who write routines to change perspective aren't central to their business, and they're constantly figuring out what they can jettison while maintaining their customer base. If you find Zwift's approach insulting and dismissive, then you can always just quit it.
I just did a ride on MyWhoosh and Zwift back-to-back. Zwift wins hands down on graphics, both artistic and technical. It's not trying to look realistic, but it does look really good IMHO (the climb portal is just a functional tool and not really part of the social side anyway. I don't think any group rides or races are using it). I think I've tried pretty much all the riding apps now and I think Zwift is easily the best of the animated sims, by a long way at this point. I just finished the Tour de Zwift and some of those rides were epic!
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Old 02-10-24, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by terrymorse
I'm not familiar with VC loans. VCs that I know always want an equity deal.

Happens. All. The. Time.
Instead of "loan" I could've used the noun: "deal" and the intent would be the same. Otherwise I agree, VC money ain't free. I fear the albatross around their necks has become a monkey on their backs.
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Old 02-10-24, 11:58 PM
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Originally Posted by terrymorse
Zwift has all but lost me as a customer. Maybe the gaming features and look appeal to folks who are accustomed to that stuff, but I really want a realistic experience. I have never played games on a computer, so that gaming stuff is mostly just annoying.

Since I recently subscribed to Rouvy, I haven't used Zwift once. Rouvy feels real. Experiencing an iconic route without leaving home is pretty darn great. I fake-climbed Mt. Lemmon yesterday. It was bleepin' long, and my butt is paying the price today, but the immersive scenery was pretty great. The downside of Rouvy is that now I want to travel everywhere to ride these roads. Or maybe that's an upside.

I tried Zwift, but like you, I am not a gamer, so I sort of Meh'd it. I tried Rouvy, liked that you can see real roads and such. I knew I was going north on a business trip and took my bike and I found some roads in the area I was going to be on Rouvy, so it sort gave me an idea of what to expect which is pretty cool on that aspect. Just today, I was riding a route based in Austria that I had ridden on a motorcycle trip I took once when I was stationed in Europe, and I noticed that there were so many motorcycles on the video, so that was a pretty cool memory lane type of ride for me.
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Old 02-15-24, 07:34 PM
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I used zwift for about 2 months years ago. It wasn't for me. Canceled the subscription and sold the trainer. Bought winter gear with the money and haven't looked back. Best decision I made. Doesn't surprise me that these companies fail. Sure, I understand being able to hold watts/HR/whatever for an extended period of time, but the video game aspect of that isn't necessary. It's not like a using an auto racing sim game to perfect track lines. So yea. No big loss, imo.
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Old 02-15-24, 07:41 PM
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Received my ZWIFT Hub One trainer today and got it set up. Everything was easy except pairing the shifter/clicker to the Wahoo Hub One - after 2 hours of frustration, I called Wahoo and spoke to a human who asked me to scroll down on a screen to connect - I didnít know it was a scrollable screen - and bamo it connected. Thought it would be a bit more quiet - but itís nothing I didnít hear with the old Kickr, but that was really starting to make ungodly noises as it was wearing out. So now i have a ton more gears on my original 22 speed which were not low enough. All is good.😊
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Old 02-26-24, 09:14 PM
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I am another rider who has left Zwift after 3 years for Rouvy. If you're not a racer I don't see much value in Zwift and there are so many advantages to Rouvy's experience. I suspect losing riders is beginning to hurt Zwift.
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Old 03-05-24, 04:57 PM
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It's cool people found ways to race and be competitive indoors with a trainer.

But no interest, I don't see any appeal in it at all. Direct drive trainer + laptop and I just chill and watch something.

But I imagine there are endless alternatives for people who want to be competiive with their cycling.
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